Kargil Conflict : Discussions

_Anonymous_

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Ashwin

Agent_47
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Air Force Strategy During Kargil Conflict and Contemporary ChallengesbyAir Marshal R. Nambiar, PVSM, AVSM, VSM and Bar, ADC, AOC-in-C, Western Air Command


Seminar on India’s National Security: Kargil to Present Times

Gen V.P. Malik, PVSM, AVSM (Retd), Former Chief of Army Staff

@Falcon @vstol Jockey
 
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suryakiran

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
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Nice story but totally different from gd bakshi story. Obviously I believe in his story. We all know what happened so there is no need to show yourself as Superman. We did what we wanted and we did it with pride. Stories are good but you must show courage as well. We are United against India and we will continue domination. We always attack first. It's an old tradition and you should follow this tradition. You should tell us about your plans. We will start war first. We want to do it again and again. We are the good guys.

There are couple of people you should have this same discussion with on p d f. One being niaz (a veteran from 71) and the other being joe (an Indian on that forum). Feel free to take their inputs also.

Tell me,

1. What is the point of attack, when you know you cannot achieve your objectives?
2. What is the point of attack, when as you yourself claim you cannot achieve it on your own and are dependent on someone else to intervene?
3. Your own ex PM Nawaz Sharif has claimed over 4000 killed in Kargil. Now, considering the fact that, your PA still refuses to report actual casualty numbers says a lot who needs to be believed.
4. Tradition, bollocks. That is what has got you into this mess. In war, there is only strategy and tactics. Tradition is what got you into the 'ghazi' and 'ummah' mindset of the medieval era.

Good guys, bad guys. An army which leaves its wounded and refuses to acknowledge its dead, for the sake of its 'invincible' aura stopped being professional at that moment.

It saddens me that younger Pakistanis are unable to see where they are being lead, by this force of liars.
 

Arsalan123

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Jun 3, 2019
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There are couple of people you should have this same discussion with on p d f. One being niaz (a veteran from 71) and the other being joe (an Indian on that forum). Feel free to take their inputs also.

Tell me,

1. What is the point of attack, when you know you cannot achieve your objectives?
2. What is the point of attack, when as you yourself claim you cannot achieve it on your own and are dependent on someone else to intervene?
3. Your own ex PM Nawaz Sharif has claimed over 4000 killed in Kargil. Now, considering the fact that, your PA still refuses to report actual casualty numbers says a lot who needs to be believed.
4. Tradition, bollocks. That is what has got you into this mess. In war, there is only strategy and tactics. Tradition is what got you into the 'ghazi' and 'ummah' mindset of the medieval era.

Good guys, bad guys. An army which leaves its wounded and refuses to acknowledge its dead, for the sake of its 'invincible' aura stopped being professional at that moment.

It saddens me that younger Pakistanis are unable to see where they are being lead, by this force of liars.
Point of attack is simple. We want this land and mental stress on enemy. Mental superiority matters. Yes we don't care about winning. We left bodies because there were many mujahadeen also. It was pointless for us to collect bodies because you already fired us when we were withdrawing. I think there was an agreement in place but you hit us anyway. This is so sad that indian army wanted iaf to take action during the whole war. It was impossible for you to win it without airforce. Sad state of affairs.

My dear man,

There was a generational change happening from 2000 to 2014. This was the best time to solve the Kashmir issue. The time and place for that is long gone.

The newer generation of diplomats and intellectuals joining in now are people born post 1990s. They have seen only a liberalised and prosperous India. This generation is not witness to the wars of old, but the growing India of economics and military. Add to this, the fact that, the diplomats at senior levels have been through the terrorism of the 90s and the Kargil episode, you will understand they are not the conservative lot of old.

Priorities have also changed. Pakistan is no longer seen as a major opponent, but as a nuisance which needs to be sorted. The entire focus of the governments of that time were on the economy and any measures to avoid conflict. Then the objective was to control Kashmir and not worry about PoK except through diplomatic channels. Today, the belief has set in for the need to bleed Pakistan. This is what you are seeing over the past 5 years. The discussion no longer is about controlling our part of Kashmir, but take the entire area as it was under Hari Singh. The reason for this is multi-fold and beyond the scope of this reply.

But, if you think our strategy to take Kashmir is to show Pakistan its place, then you have sorely missed the forest for the trees.
Great post. I agree. I think people in your country are now more aggressive. Obviously above mentioned reasons in your post are true.
 

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
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India
Nice story but totally different from gd bakshi story. Obviously I believe in his story. We all know what happened so there is no need to show yourself as Superman. We did what we wanted and we did it with pride. Stories are good but you must show courage as well. We are United against India and we will continue domination. We always attack first. It's an old tradition and you should follow this tradition. You should tell us about your plans. We will start war first. We want to do it again and again. We are the good guys.

My condolences to your Dead soldiers buddy..
Why obsessed about Kashmir until cruel death..
Wake up for bright future..
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
6,579
4,079
Why obsessed about Kashmir until cruel death..
Wake up for bright future..

According to an American expert on Pakistan , this obsession will last till
2047

So it is upto India if we can convince them militarily before 2047
That this obsession is bad for them
Will only bring loss and destruction
 

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
2,230
1,234
India
There are couple of people you should have this same discussion with on p d f. One being niaz (a veteran from 71) and the other being joe (an Indian on that forum). Feel free to take their inputs also.

Tell me,

1. What is the point of attack, when you know you cannot achieve your objectives?
2. What is the point of attack, when as you yourself claim you cannot achieve it on your own and are dependent on someone else to intervene?
3. Your own ex PM Nawaz Sharif has claimed over 4000 killed in Kargil. Now, considering the fact that, your PA still refuses to report actual casualty numbers says a lot who needs to be believed.
4. Tradition, bollocks. That is what has got you into this mess. In war, there is only strategy and tactics. Tradition is what got you into the 'ghazi' and 'ummah' mindset of the medieval era.

Good guys, bad guys. An army which leaves its wounded and refuses to acknowledge its dead, for the sake of its 'invincible' aura stopped being professional at that moment.

It saddens me that younger Pakistanis are unable to see where they are being lead, by this force of liars.

That reply was to come out of heavy dose of sentiment created by divine heritic message.
 

Quicksilver

Active member
Dec 6, 2019
240
146
New york
With Corona not even over, 2 months of lockdown gone already..
Cases piling up.. We may even cross US case numbers,

You still think we ll act?

I ll be happy if they make payment for signed weapon deals..

Haven't you read that ALH is considered for Navy primarily because we are not sure whether we can pay up for the deal fully..

With HAL, they can defer payment and cut the numbers or anything.. Like that.

So I am very sure, India on its own won't act. .
during the 1971 India's GDP growth rate was 1.65%

1589482471608.png


current growth projections for year 2020 are in the same region.

Not saying anything will happen because of this. Just wanted to show you that when the moment to strike arrives, even India did not worry about the economy.
 

Arsalan123

Banned
Jun 3, 2019
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Sindh, Pakistan
According to an American expert on Pakistan , this obsession will last till
2047

So it is upto India if we can convince them militarily before 2047
That this obsession is bad for them
Will only bring loss and destruction
Hilarious. I can't believe it. Anyway we are slowly heading towards war. War means destruction which is bad for humanity. I hope both countries will find a common solution.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
6,579
4,079
Pls check yourself. You're displaying some Covid 19 symptoms.

I get your point

As an Indian , when you look at Pakistan , we have to be 95 percent
Realistic and 5 percent Optimistic

As long as the 1400 year old command to kill All Kafirs is Not overturned
Non Muslims can never let their Guard
Down

Add to it the internal demographic changes in India which further boosts their Desire for Ghazwa e Hind
 
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jetray

Well-Known member
Mar 15, 2018
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The Rationalists in Pakistan will convince the Mad ones to give up this Obsession

Societies change , a 100 years of war will bring some introspection
I bet either most of them have left the country or on the brink of extinction. Problem with rationalists in pakistan is that they might very well question the rationale for creation of pakistan. After that.....
 
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AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
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Republic of Wadiya
I get your point

As an Indian , when you look at Pakistan , we have to be 95 percent
Realistic and 5 percent Optimistic

As long as the 1400 year old command to kill All Kafirs is Not overturned
Non Muslims can never let their Guard
Down

Add to it the internal demographic changes in India which further boosts their Desire for Ghazwa e Hind
There is no compulsion in Islam to kill kaffirs. Its voluntary. Quran just asks you to eliminate kaffirs any means possible.

Don’t be an Islamophooobic
 

Arsalan123

Banned
Jun 3, 2019
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Sindh, Pakistan
we don't want ghawza e hind right now. We are worried about indian people. Few years ago,there was not much hate against pakistanis but now in this government,there is a trend of tweets and things like begging bowl, partition of Pakistan and our Kashmir etc. Problem is it's unexpected from indian people who call themselves liberals and democratic people.
Our problem is quiet clear. We are worried about indian mindset. We are worried about situation of loc and water problem. Water originates from indian kashmir. Oceans are drying up. Water level is going on. We are an agricultural country. We need proper water supply from India even in future and for this,we are forced to start a war. We don't want ghazwa e hind. Unjustified killings is not allowed. Jehad is allowed only if someone kills your Muslim brothers without any reason. Obviously worldwide terrorism has changed the definition of jehad but we can't relate terrorism with jehad. Both are totally different concepts. Isis has done lots of damage. Perception has changed but for Islamic countries,rules will remain same. Our ancestors have won many wars. Cause of war in the past are mostly unjustified killings of Muslims. Muslims are everywhere.they are a big community. They must protect their identity and get rid of groups like isis. We must learn our religion properly.
In Kashmir,we see many casualties on daily basis. Obviously Muslims are also dying which is unacceptable according to Muslims. Today Muslims are weak but we don't want to wake up because it will bring destruction. We want truce. If India guarantee us no killing,we will guarantee no hostility. We don't want India. We don't have any expansion plan but India should worry about China because they have plans.