Israel, US Strike Iran After Weeks Of Warning, Explosions Heard In Tehran

randomradio said:
America does not have the credibility for such things. The JCPOA agreement was only for 15 years, pending a future agreement based on mutual trust.

If you want all that you stated, then Isreal would also have to denuclearize simultaneously. No nukes for anybody.
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And Iran, a terrorist state does? Israel has been nuclear for half a century, that can't be changed. Iran with nukes is destabilising. As well as the potential for nukes getting to terrorists, Iranian nuclear-tipped IRBMs would need to be countered by European nuclear-tipped IRBMs, and then Russia would see that as a threat and so on.

The JCPOA just gave Iran more money to pump into expanding underground enrichment capacity, which isn't part of any legitimate civilian program. And your new requirement that Israel disarm in exchange for decommissioning Natanz just proves that you know Iran has a nuclear weapons program, and your stance also implies support. So you kind of hedge between arguing they don't, while also opposing any real moves to get rid of underground facilities and make sure. :ROFLMAO:

Thought India was supposed to be an ally of Israel? Before Israel had nukes there were 3 separate attempts to wipe it out, that's why it developed them.
 
The Gathas are attributed to Zoroaster himself . There's no dispute on that front among experts for there are no extant texts disputing their authorship. Hence if Zoroaster is dated to 600 BCE then logically the Gathas are to be dated to the same period. Except the language of the Avesta containing those Gathas are archaic resembling the language of the younger books of the Rg Veda as per Talageri.

He's actually compiled a compendium on common words between the Avesta , the younger books of the Rg Veda & the Atharva Veda which is supposed to be the twin book of the Zend Avesta as per Talageri's theory.

The landscape of the Avesta isn't Iran . It's now accepted that the Avesta was most likely composed in what's now the area between Eastern Iran , Turkmenistan , parts of Southern Uzbekistan , Northern Afghanistan & possibly western Tajikistan.

Interestingly this is the very same region which comprised of the BMAC aka the Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex aka the Greater Khorasan Civilization dated between 2500-1700 BCE co inciding with the middle to late IVC . This was extensively explored & researched by Soviet archaeologists especially Viktor Sarainidi considered an expert on BMAC who actually named it thus & has pronounced that the religion most likely followed by the inhabitants there was Zoroastrianism based on evidence of fire altars & other religious motifs distinctly identified as Zoroastrian.

Moreover Assyrian records clearly state the arrival of new tribes in the west of Iran close to what was then Elam on the borders of Assyria the names of which they've recorded as Mada & Parsa / Parsua now known to us as the Median tribe & the Persian tribe the latter giving their name to the nation. This was somewhere between the 9th & 8th century BCE.

The implication being Zoroaster pre dated the emigration of these tribes to Iran. Hence it wouldn't be out of place to suggest that Zoroaster most likely lived between 2000-1700 BCE or thereabouts where after the collapse of the BMAC due to unknown reasons , in all probability the people there began migrating west wards.

There's another reason they didn't choose to migrate eastwards as the Avesta itself records extreme hostility from the Daeva worshippers . It's quite clear then that a heterodox inhabited that land . Conversion to Zoroastrianism became possible because their King Vishtaspa accepted Zoroastrianism & Zoroaster as the prophet. Incidentally Zoroaster was said to have been assassinated by a Turani priest ( Turan being that region adjacent to Iran , heavily influenced by it but not part of Iran proper coinciding with Khorasan ) .

Of course this is more Zoroastrian tradition speaking as there's no confirmation of the same in the records . In other words it's part of their oral history. Internal Zoroastrian chronology places him 5000 years before present ( YBP )

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A combat mission involving US Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II attack aircraft in Iraq. The A-10 Thunderbolt II was developed in 1972 and, like the Russian Su-25, is considered one of the best in the world. In the video, an A-10 attack aircraft fires a 30mm GAU-8 cannon at Iranian military positions in Iraq. Iraqi militia groups are shelling US bases.

 
One of the vessels expected at the port is the Thai-flagged Mayuree Naree, which had come under attack in the Strait of Hormuz on March 11. Several other incoming ships are likely to be carrying crude oil to India.

At the same time, a Liberia-flagged tanker, Shenlong Suezmax, reached Mumbai Port carrying Saudi crude. It became the first India-bound vessel to pass through the Strait of Hormuz after tensions began between Iran and the United States.

The tanker had loaded crude from Ras Tanura in Saudi Arabia on March 1 and sailed on March 3.

Tracking data showed the vessel was in the Strait of Hormuz on March 8 before it went off tracking systems for some time. It later reappeared on March 9.

Per reports, the ship had switched off its Automatic Identification System (AIS) while passing through the high-risk area.

AIS is a required system that shares a ship’s identity, position, speed, and route with nearby vessels and coastal authorities to avoid accidents and help with navigation.
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India’s Deendayal Port Carries Out First-Ever Triple Banking Ship-to-Ship Operation
 
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The isareli & the Americans are running low on interceptors, the manufacturer for patriot & thaad system are lockheed Martin, boeing & raytheon, the main production sites are in the USA barring mitsubishi industry producing in Japan,
While the isareli share one common AD with us is Barak system,
Which are being produce in India,
Does israel placing order's for Barak system to indian partners, given they are running low on interceptors?
 
BMD said:
I actually agree with those points - points 4 and especially 5 are the most important, nobody will agree that Iran has abandoned its nuclear weapons program until that happens. If Iran is serious about not having nuclear weapons it shouldn't cause them issues.

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You agree because that's the main goal of the conflict for the US/Israel. But it's the Iranians who have to agree and they have rejected it.

As I said, America isn't trustworthy enough for point 5 to work out. This requires simultaneous disarmament, and some very serious security nuclear guarantees directly from the US itself. Plus under the UNSC, it can't merely be bilateral.
 
BMD said:
And Iran, a terrorist state does? Israel has been nuclear for half a century, that can't be changed. Iran with nukes is destabilising. As well as the potential for nukes getting to terrorists, Iranian nuclear-tipped IRBMs would need to be countered by European nuclear-tipped IRBMs, and then Russia would see that as a threat and so on.
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In this case, yes, Iran is more credible. Especially after they actually adhered to the JCPOA.

BMD said:
The JCPOA just gave Iran more money to pump into expanding underground enrichment capacity, which isn't part of any legitimate civilian program. And your new requirement that Israel disarm in exchange for decommissioning Natanz just proves that you know Iran has a nuclear weapons program, and your stance also implies support. So you kind of hedge between arguing they don't, while also opposing any real moves to get rid of underground facilities and make sure. :ROFLMAO:
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All nuclear activities had stopped, confirmed by IAEA.

Natanz and Fordow cannot be dismantled based on an agreement with the US alone. Like I said, US doesn't have the credibility for that. These facilities were necessary as a hedge, and this was proven true.

Different story that Iran's conventional capabilities sucked.

BMD said:
Thought India was supposed to be an ally of Israel? Before Israel had nukes there were 3 separate attempts to wipe it out, that's why it developed them.
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India believes in everybody having nukes or none. India is all for global disarmament.
 
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Asuras became malevolent beings after the Rig Veda, which implies the pre-Gathic period was essentially between Rig and Atharva.

If Zoroaster lived between 2000-1500 BC, it implies the Vedas are significantly older than currently dated if we are to stick him between Rig and Atharva, ie, the pre-Gathic and Gathas sit between Rig and Atharva.

But while Rig considered Asuras and Devas as one and the same, Zoroastrians created the split long before Zoroaster came into the show. Which means Asuras had already become dark Titans before Zoroaster turned Asura Medha into Ahura Mazda. That's pre-Gathic.

Four theories:
1. Vedic system reacted.
Rig - Pre-Gathic (Devas became bad) - Atharva (Asuras became bad) - Gathas (Ahura Mazda).
Split.

2. Vedic system reacted.
Rig - Pre-Gathic (Devas became bad) - Gathas (Ahura Mazda) - Atharva (Asuras became bad).
Split.

3. Zoroastrians reacted.
Rig - Atharva (Asuras became bad) - Pre-Gathic (Devas became bad) - Gathas (Ahura Mazda).
Split.

4. Zoroastrians reacted.
Rig - Atharva (Asuras became bad) - Pre-Gathic (Devas became bad) - Gathas (Ahura Mazda).
Misunderstanding. Brahmins made a translation error, gave the "a" in asura a negative connotation. So suras and devas were fine, but asuras cannot be worshipped. Zoroastrians assumed it was an attack on them and they reacted during the pre-Gathic era.

1, 2, and 3 imply a real split whereas 4 implies a misunderstanding. Zoroaster supported the new meaning.

Of the 3 cases, only 1 (case 2) sees Atharva being younger than the Gathas. And it could be any of these 4 cases.

And 600 BC is when the Gathas were finally written down.

BMAC link is disputed. At best syncretization of cultures. For example, fire was important in the colder climate of Central Asia and the steppes.
 
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