Islamic Republic of Pakistan : News, Discussions & Updates

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,600
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India

Pakistan has minimal contribution in carbon emission. The rich countries responsible for huge carbon emission have the responsibility to at least provide funds so that the countries like ours may fight global warming and improve our environment.

😆🤣😂😹

These beggars neither have industries nor income for millions of vehicles and making it sound like they are not polluting world because of environmental concerns.

I don't really get the Pakistanis. They received an injection of $60+B over the last few years from just China alone and still their GDP dropped rather than rise. Maybe someday they will wake up and realise what the actual problem is.
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
485
384
I don't really get the Pakistanis. They received an injection of $60+B over the last few years from just China alone and still their GDP dropped rather than rise. Maybe someday they will wake up and realise what the actual problem is.
But they have nuclear bomb and JF17
 

lcafanboy

Senior member
Dec 22, 2017
1,700
1,620
Bangalore
And covaxin is ?
Will be approved by WHO by June 21st.... All decks cleared...🤗
BTW ocugen Canada paid 15 million dollars for license production of Covaxin in Canada. So they must have done due diligence about its efficacy and safety. Why didn't they go for Chinese Vaccines. It only shows Covaxin is better than Chinese Maal....
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
1,400
1,095
Republic of Wadiya
U
Entertaining
@safriz although his language is typical desi but he’s too the point
Lol... That "Jess healy" Twitter account is run by Pakistan intelligence 5th generation team..😂😂😂

They are using that profile to tweet as a an American girl who came to Pakistan and decided to stay due to Pakistan's beauty 😂😂


In reality, the girl in the picture is "Coley Nick", she is from Ireland and a traveller.

Take a look at the English language skills of the supposed native English speaker 😂😂. Abdul tweeting from GHQ is having some trouble pretending to be a native English speaker.
View attachment 19724
He re is a picture GHQ internet warrior tweeted.

View attachment 19726

Here is the real profile of Coley Nick, GHQ's Abdul stole picture from her timeline

View attachment 19727
Being an avid history learner, I have read about Pakistan hundreds of hours and thousands of pages. About people, history, politics, religion and all their interplay which is responsible for the current Pakistan and explains how Pakistan as an entity behaves with regional and international players.
Regarding Pakistanis as an individuals it’s a different story I believe.
We generally have very negative opinions about common folks of Pakistan based on our reading in newspapers and other sources of information like global news outlets, books, tv etc.And I’m not going into if they are right or wrong.
Just saying that they are what we’ve got apart from Nepalis,Lankans and Bhutanis.
We are kinda part of same community like neighbors. It’s true that we have a lot of bad blood and in all probability will fight till the one gets knocked out for good.
But it’s ok I guess. No reason to belittle or hate any one be it an Pakistani or Indian or anyone living in the subcontinent.

Focusing on goals is way more easy when we don’t have any prejudices. It’s as good as driving with clear lenses. That’s why top tier spooks see things more neutrally than we commoners and have trusted friends in even sworn enemy groups.
And we have forces who if supported properly with political class, technology and gears and intelligence, can take on any short of threat China and Pakistan can mount on.
So insulting Pakistan or Pakistani people on otherwise very tidy and neat places like this is unreasonable. We can have our biases and still can talk decently. It may not bring peace between the two nations but can make this place even better to come and discuss matters that matter in a calmer environment
 

Cole_phelps

Well-Known member
Jun 19, 2019
559
712
India
Being an avid history learner, I have read about Pakistan hundreds of hours and thousands of pages. About people, history, politics, religion and all their interplay which is responsible for the current Pakistan and explains how Pakistan as an entity behaves with regional and international players.
Regarding Pakistanis as an individuals it’s a different story I believe.
We generally have very negative opinions about common folks of Pakistan based on our reading in newspapers and other sources of information like global news outlets, books, tv etc.And I’m not going into if they are right or wrong.
Just saying that they are what we’ve got apart from Nepalis,Lankans and Bhutanis.
We are kinda part of same community like neighbors. It’s true that we have a lot of bad blood and in all probability will fight till the one gets knocked out for good.
But it’s ok I guess. No reason to belittle or hate any one be it an Pakistani or Indian or anyone living in the subcontinent.

Focusing on goals is way more easy when we don’t have any prejudices. It’s as good as driving with clear lenses. That’s why top tier spooks see things more neutrally than we commoners and have trusted friends in even sworn enemy groups.
And we have forces who if supported properly with political class, technology and gears and intelligence, can take on any short of threat China and Pakistan can mount on.
So insulting Pakistan or Pakistani people on otherwise very tidy and neat places like this is unreasonable. We can have our biases and still can talk decently. It may not bring peace between the two nations but can make this place even better to come and discuss matters that matter in a calmer environment


That's not apt comparison.

Apart from the fact that Indians are more non religious or even atheists as compared to paxtanis following Islam with zeal, the basic difference is Islam has exclusivity and supremacy as its core whereas Sanatan dharma has inclusiveness and karma as its core.

A so called radical Hindu will be much better than average paxtani.

Pre Zia Paxtan could have been a much better nation but now there's no hope unless they change their curriculum and wait for 50 years.
 
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Nilgiri

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
556
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They received an injection of $60+B over the last few years

They haven't.

Injection would mean actual bulk loan transfer (putting up for collateral, it would show in their forex) and/or FDI. I think maybe only 12 billion or so has been forthcoming so far (very little of it FDI)....and that is more or less what they could have got on international credit market anyway (and probably far cheaper servicing too) with their current credit ratings over same period of time (minus chinese handholding, thus need to actually put together their own projects + management which apparently less said the better...by their own implicit/explicit admission).

Of course then khaki cabal wouldnt have the political dimension (nor the Chinese management premium) to trumpet/assuage/threaten internal parties and populace....but that is different conversation and seems to be the whole basis of CPEC etc in first place...i.e piggyback+cheerlead+hope for something to spillover from something far more competent/proven (we saw this in cold war w.r.t US for them too).

Thus, the vast majority of "CPEC" is pie in the sky MOU "follow-ups" based on brochures and the wonks employed to make them.

Chinese (esp banks) aren't going to send good money after bad past a point (in fact its the CCP Banks that are now refusing to back down on lot of servicing agreements and it seems CCP higher echelons cant or wont dictate to them on it).

Besides, for phase 2 and beyond (conceptually), Pakistan seems to have little capacity or interest to dry the damp wood so any spark can catch to get any sustainable tranches long term....as this would fundamentally need reforms that erode the control the cabal has on the bureaucratic structure and societal narratives.

When any of this is pointed out, the shrill conspiracy theories and "CPEC we trust to the end" are never far away and it is same brick wall in conversation.
 

safriz

Well-Known member
Jan 1, 2018
1,641
572
UK, Pakistan
I don't really get the Pakistanis. They received an injection of $60+B over the last few years from just China alone and still their GDP dropped rather than rise. Maybe someday they will wake up and realise what the actual problem is.
60 billion from China? When did that happen?
 

safriz

Well-Known member
Jan 1, 2018
1,641
572
UK, Pakistan
They haven't.

Injection would mean actual bulk loan transfer (putting up for collateral, it would show in their forex) and/or FDI. I think maybe only 12 billion or so has been forthcoming so far (very little of it FDI)....and that is more or less what they could have got on international credit market anyway (and probably far cheaper servicing too) with their current credit ratings over same period of time (minus chinese handholding, thus need to actually put together their own projects + management which apparently less said the better...by their own implicit/explicit admission).

Of course then khaki cabal wouldnt have the political dimension (nor the Chinese management premium) to trumpet/assuage/threaten internal parties and populace....but that is different conversation and seems to be the whole basis of CPEC etc in first place...i.e piggyback+cheerlead+hope for something to spillover from something far more competent/proven (we saw this in cold war w.r.t US for them too).

Thus, the vast majority of "CPEC" is pie in the sky MOU "follow-ups" based on brochures and the wonks employed to make them.

Chinese (esp banks) aren't going to send good money after bad past a point (in fact its the CCP Banks that are now refusing to back down on lot of servicing agreements and it seems CCP higher echelons cant or wont dictate to them on it).

Besides, for phase 2 and beyond (conceptually), Pakistan seems to have little capacity or interest to dry the damp wood so any spark can catch to get any sustainable tranches long term....as this would fundamentally need reforms that erode the control the cabal has on the bureaucratic structure and societal narratives.

When any of this is pointed out, the shrill conspiracy theories and "CPEC we trust to the end" are never far away and it is same brick wall in conversation.
Our higher ups are good at messing up.
The largest city of Pakistan Karachi is totally reliant on a Chinese company for electricity supply .
Despite all electricity production being local, the management of the grid and bill collection was given to a Chinese company and they are killing it.
Over billing, poor reliability, lack of maintainance.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,600
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India
They haven't.

Injection would mean actual bulk loan transfer (putting up for collateral, it would show in their forex) and/or FDI. I think maybe only 12 billion or so has been forthcoming so far (very little of it FDI)....and that is more or less what they could have got on international credit market anyway (and probably far cheaper servicing too) with their current credit ratings over same period of time (minus chinese handholding, thus need to actually put together their own projects + management which apparently less said the better...by their own implicit/explicit admission).

Of course then khaki cabal wouldnt have the political dimension (nor the Chinese management premium) to trumpet/assuage/threaten internal parties and populace....but that is different conversation and seems to be the whole basis of CPEC etc in first place...i.e piggyback+cheerlead+hope for something to spillover from something far more competent/proven (we saw this in cold war w.r.t US for them too).

Thus, the vast majority of "CPEC" is pie in the sky MOU "follow-ups" based on brochures and the wonks employed to make them.

Chinese (esp banks) aren't going to send good money after bad past a point (in fact its the CCP Banks that are now refusing to back down on lot of servicing agreements and it seems CCP higher echelons cant or wont dictate to them on it).

Besides, for phase 2 and beyond (conceptually), Pakistan seems to have little capacity or interest to dry the damp wood so any spark can catch to get any sustainable tranches long term....as this would fundamentally need reforms that erode the control the cabal has on the bureaucratic structure and societal narratives.

When any of this is pointed out, the shrill conspiracy theories and "CPEC we trust to the end" are never far away and it is same brick wall in conversation.

The $12B figure seems to be a bit too less though.

I recall them finishing a number of projects worth more than that in the power sector alone.

Early harvest projects worth $19bn have been completed, and CPEC is now in its second phase, in which most of the projects will be based on a public-private partnership model.

There's also the critical M5 highway that was worth nearly $3B. There was also the rather expensive Orange Line metro in Lahore. An unknown amount has been spent on Gwadar as well, quite a bit of which is outside the CPEC framework and is seeing direct Chinese involvement.

And then there's some which have barely begun but will eventually be completed, like that gigantic dam. There's also the nearly $10B ML-1 upgrade program along with the engines and coaches. Only these two combined would be about $25B+overruns and are pretty much guaranteed to go through.
 
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_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
13,883
9,954
Mumbai
Our higher ups are good at messing up.
The largest city of Pakistan Karachi is totally reliant on a Chinese company for electricity supply .
Despite all electricity production being local, the management of the grid and bill collection was given to a Chinese company and they are killing it.
Over billing, poor reliability, lack of maintainance.
I don't see why Paxtanis should cease to be what you basically are. What do I mean ? It's simple. All you've to do is hook up a line to the main line & voila - you have an electricity connection , that too free of charge.

Then you can always gang up & thrash the company technicians who come to disconnect lines for non payment. Plus you can always manipulate those electrical meters by placing magnets over them which basically slows down the rate of revolutions of the revolving disc inside ( assuming you don't have digital ones) - an old trick , Paxtani colleagues informed me thet used to practise back home in Karachi during a stint of mine in UAE.

In case the Chinese firms are in the process of upgrading such meters to digital ones , organise fellow Paxtanis to thrash their technicians when they come down to change them. The logic behind all this being why should all those in uniform only have all the fun ?
 

Nilgiri

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
556
1,347
The $12B figure seems to be a bit too less though.

I recall them finishing a number of projects worth more than that in the power sector alone.

Early harvest projects worth $19bn have been completed, and CPEC is now in its second phase, in which most of the projects will be based on a public-private partnership model.

There's also the critical M5 highway that was worth nearly $3B. There was also the rather expensive Orange Line metro in Lahore. An unknown amount has been spent on Gwadar as well, quite a bit of which is outside the CPEC framework and is seeing direct Chinese involvement.

And then there's some which have barely begun but will eventually be completed, like that gigantic dam. There's also the nearly $10B ML-1 upgrade program along with the engines and coaches. Only these two combined would be about $25B+overruns and are pretty much guaranteed to go through.

I take my ~12 billion from what I have seen in the general debt statistics at World Bank (for loans) and UNCTAD for FDI...but I might have to check later, its off top of my head.

My understanding is the larger amounts we see from time to time (for specific projects or combined project classes) are valuations (X+Y+Z), rather than precise investment/loan injection amount (Y).

The land + other capital resources used itself has some X value already, you develop it (add buildings, logistics + labour + capital goods + capacities etc) with further Y amount of money and its worth (you say) X+Y+"Z" in the end in local currency (PKR)....Z being added utility+functionality from predicted long term output etc. The "total market cap" of that project lets say.

Then you convert it (X+Y+Z) verbatim to USD reference and imply that conversion holds the same average world quality (when the scale, intensity and makeup of exchange rate of USD-PKR is far different to average world norm to begin with).

But if it actually is that valuation needs Pakistan to integrate far more with the USD/World references+standards (and the growth of high frequency markers to back this) by larger trade, investment metrics etc... and demonstrate commensurate growth in its total market cap too so we see what the actual hard equity and asset numbers are that materialised...from say 2015 onwards period (when CPEC started).

Simply it might only be known on that front in 2025, 2030 etc.

But all that stuff needs far far more to be done than just CPEC (or at least what I have seen of it)....especially to even get a sound+better+relevant valuation (that can be leveraged internationally) in the first place rather than just a number to print in media/brochure.

Because that hard asset + equity number (gross capital formation) so far is way underperforming compared to the CPEC brochures and whatever valuation claims floating around.

The real problem to address is why are Pakistanis not saving enough money. You ask that and you are back to cabal issue and practical realised trust deficit of aam-admi. That is larger thing to handle, there is no good economic study of it, it involves human psyche, hidden (but real) inflation and various shakedowns done by those in power on the less powerful (and thus the populace's perceived net benefit from investing honestly into the system....with whatever the hidden inflation leaves behind to begin with).
 
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