Infantry Combat Vehicles of Indian Army

Aniruddha

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Indian Army looking for new 8x8 APCs | December 2019 Global Defense Security army news industry | Defense Security global news industry army 2019 | Archive News year
The article states that for RFI issued for 198 wheeled 8x8 IFV, both Russian and American offerings are already out of question.
The French and German offerings are not adequate as they are not amphibious platforms and would require significant changes to turret.
Also, IA is not keen on procuring the TATA WhAP.
So what exactly are we going to procure??
Any thoughts??
 

Gautam

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Also, IA is not keen on procuring the TATA WhAP.
Bit presumptuous on the part of the writer to assume this. Why would the Army spend so much time testing/modifying the WhAP if they aren't interested in it ? Its like saying Army isn't interested in the ATAGS because they are buying the M777.
So what exactly are we going to procure??
Any thoughts??
A modified WhAP. I think its pretty evident from the RFI. Just my two cents.
 
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Aniruddha

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Bit presumptuous on the part of the writer to assume this. Why would the Army spend so much time testing/modifying the WhAP if they aren't interested in it ? Its like saying Army isn't interested in the ATAGS because they are buying the M777.

A modified WhAP. I think its pretty evident from the RFI. Just my two cents.
Fingers crossed.
 

Gautam

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A "Futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicle" for the Indian Army was also in the works, he added.

"OFB started manufacturing Armoured Personal Carriers for the army from 1983-84. But now the OFB has developed its own Futuristic Infantry Combat (FIC) Vehicle for the army," he said.

"It is almost 85 percent ready. In coming months the FIC will be fully ready and exhibited in the next Defence exhibition," Mohan added.

Source : Smart bombs, futuristic combat vehicle in pipeline: OFB head

So we may get to see OFB's FICV in Defexpo 2020. I do hope its not a BMP revamp but a new design. Knowing OFB.........
 

Gautam

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It seems BEML is calling foreign OEMs to provide a Wheeled Infantry Combat Vehicle in response to the Army's recent tender for 198 such vehicles. The plan seems to be similar to what they have going with Tatra, license manufacture.

Technical parameters are as follows :
Screenshot (684).png
Screenshot (685).png
Screenshot (686).png
Screenshot (687).png
Screenshot (688).png


Source : https://www.bemlindia.in/writereaddata/Tender/EoI_WhICV_HQ_13Jan2020.pdf
 

_Anonymous_

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Vinod DX9 (@VinodDX9) Tweeted:
#armourednews

OFB is working with #IndianArmy to develop a new ICV for FICV requirement . 85% work is completed already and first prototype will be showcased in #DefExpo2020 !

In pic Abhay IFV , a previous indigenous attempt to make a modern IFV. Vinod DX9 on Twitter ( )

Vinod DX9 (@VinodDX9) Tweeted:
Those who think #DRDO Abhay design is old and outdated should look at #SouthKorea K-21 IFV design which is a cutting edge platform.
Just add modern electronics , optics and a customize turret and IMO Abhay is a fine platform. Vinod DX9 on Twitter ( )


Ninjamonkey (@Aryanwarlord) Tweeted:
Information on BRF indicates a new desi FICV variant based on the composite hull below is now being integrated for trials.
Will get a 400hp engine. Ninjamonkey on Twitter ( )

What does one make of this? @randomradio ; @Falcon ; @Gautam ; @Ashwin ; @hellbent
 
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randomradio

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Vinod DX9 (@VinodDX9) Tweeted:
#armourednews

OFB is working with #IndianArmy to develop a new ICV for FICV requirement . 85% work is completed already and first prototype will be showcased in #DefExpo2020 !

In pic Abhay IFV , a previous indigenous attempt to make a modern IFV. Vinod DX9 on Twitter ( )

Vinod DX9 (@VinodDX9) Tweeted:
Those who think #DRDO Abhay design is old and outdated should look at #SouthKorea K-21 IFV design which is a cutting edge platform.
Just add modern electronics , optics and a customize turret and IMO Abhay is a fine platform. Vinod DX9 on Twitter ( )


Ninjamonkey (@Aryanwarlord) Tweeted:
Information on BRF indicates a new desi FICV variant based on the composite hull below is now being integrated for trials.
Will get a 400hp engine. Ninjamonkey on Twitter ( )

What does one make of this? @randomradio ; @Falcon ; @Gautam ; @Ashwin ; @hellbent

Nothing really, OFB is making their FICV contender.

If it meets the cut, it will be considered.

As for Abhay, it was designed by DRDO. So this new OFB design may or may not be its successor. I just hope OFB is not making a copy of the BMP-2.

My money's on L&T's design for now due to its unmanned turret, although I may change my opinion once all the designs become available for public scrutiny.
 
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_Anonymous_

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Nothing really, OFB is making their FICV contender.

If it meets the cut, it will be considered.

As for Abhay, it was designed by DRDO. So this new OFB design may or may not be its successor. I just hope OFB is not making a copy of the BMP-2.

My money's on L&T's design for now due to its unmanned turret, although I may change my opinion once all the designs become available for public scrutiny.

My point being what's futuristic about this? The Abhay is an old design. You've got guys citing the example of RoK in that an old design has been rendered contemporary using state of the art armaments, electronics, etc.

What then was the brouhaha all about when IA first announced an SP Model under Design Make India ( DMI) for FICV & FRCV, particularly the former ( no clue what happened to the latter) with proposals of part finance / no finance from MoD towards developmental costs with no commitment for a contractual agreement towards production post development, followed by putting the entire proposal in the cold storage?
 

Gautam

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Vinod DX9 (@VinodDX9) Tweeted:
#armourednews

OFB is working with #IndianArmy to develop a new ICV for FICV requirement . 85% work is completed already and first prototype will be showcased in #DefExpo2020 !

In pic Abhay IFV , a previous indigenous attempt to make a modern IFV. Vinod DX9 on Twitter ( )

Vinod DX9 (@VinodDX9) Tweeted:
Those who think #DRDO Abhay design is old and outdated should look at #SouthKorea K-21 IFV design which is a cutting edge platform.
Just add modern electronics , optics and a customize turret and IMO Abhay is a fine platform. Vinod DX9 on Twitter ( )


Ninjamonkey (@Aryanwarlord) Tweeted:
Information on BRF indicates a new desi FICV variant based on the composite hull below is now being integrated for trials.
Will get a 400hp engine. Ninjamonkey on Twitter ( )

What does one make of this? @randomradio ; @Falcon ; @Gautam ; @Ashwin ; @hellbent
Nothing new here. They have been planning this for long. The idea was to use the BMP's Shipunov 2A42 gun and design a "new" unmanned turret around it. They wanted to use all composite body to reduce weight and bring in a more powerful engine allowing the final product a far superior power to weight ratio.

I doubt the OFB will change the design of the BMP much. So in the end it might just be a Indian BMP. Let's see what they show in the Defexpo 2020.

TATA FICV :
1579358070783.png


L&T FICV :
1579358198714.png


My point being what's futuristic about this? The Abhay is an old design. You've got guys citing the example of RoK in that an old design has been rendered contemporary using state of the art armaments, electronics, etc.
The modularity of the design, that is the ability of sporting multiple turrets as per mission needs.
Modern sensors, comms etc.
Improved survivability, better terrain navigability, better deployability and mission readiness, Less down time.
Better protection, improved crew safety and support gear.
More engagement options, ATGMs lasers in the future.

These are the tech that make it "Futuristic". To be fair a juiced up BMP can deliver well on most if not all of these parameters.
 
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Nikhil

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Nothing new here. They have been planning this for long. The idea was to use the BMP's Shipunov 2A42 gun and design a "new" unmanned turret around it. They wanted to use all composite body to reduce weight and bring in a more powerful engine allowing the final product a far superior power to weight ratio.

I doubt the OFB will change the design of the BMP much. So in the end it might just be a Indian BMP. Let's see what they show in the Defexpo 2020.

TATA FICV :
View attachment 13288

L&T FICV :
View attachment 13289


The modularity of the design, that is the ability of sporting multiple turrets as per mission needs.
Modern sensors, comms etc.
Improved survivability, better terrain navigability, better deployability and mission readiness, Less down time.
Better protection, improved crew safety and support gear.
More engagement options, ATGMs lasers in the future.

These are the tech that make it "Futuristic". To be fair a juiced up BMP can deliver well on most if not all of these parameters.
L&T IFV look like another junk on line with Tata kestrel. typical Pvt sector, big mouth but nothing to show for when comes to actual delivery. But these are time of public loot of resources by Modi and his todies so no surprise here.
 

vstol Jockey

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L&T IFV look like another junk on line with Tata kestrel. typical Pvt sector, big mouth but nothing to show for when comes to actual delivery. But these are time of public loot of resources by Modi and his todies so no surprise here.
I think everyone here is of the view that we need to give more chance to private industries to make weapon systems for us. We all are also of the view that govt institutions like OFB, HAL and others have serious quality control and schedule problems. In such circumstances if the govt is making an effort to involve private sector in weapon manufacturing, a statement like yours is counter productive. What do you suggest we should do? give the contracts to foreign companies and deny our own companies?
 

Nikhil

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I think everyone here is of the view that we need to give more chance to private industries to make weapon systems for us. We all are also of the view that govt institutions like OFB, HAL and others have serious quality control and schedule problems. In such circumstances if the govt is making an effort to involve private sector in weapon manufacturing, a statement like yours is counter productive. What do you suggest we should do? give the contracts to foreign companies and deny our own companies?
Everyone is not of the same view other than shareholders of these companies....why should public money is needed to teach and spoon feed these maggots leaching on public resources, are they kids? What defence product they managed to build on their own without govt and crook military officials, beurocrates and politician intervention ? Don't tell me about assembling K 9 as next big thing....what so special about adani and ambani that govt is so meharban on them....what defence experience they have other than siphoning off public money so they can keep flourishing.
 

vstol Jockey

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Everyone is not of the same view other than shareholders of these companies....why should public money is needed to teach and spoon feed these maggots leaching on public resources, are they kids? What defence product they managed to build on their own without govt and crook military officials, beurocrates and politician intervention ? Don't tell me about assembling K 9 as next big thing....what so special about adani and ambani that govt is so meharban on them....what defence experience they have other than siphoning off public money so they can keep flourishing.
You will be shocked to know that these companies have put in their own money to make the prototypes and the final say will be that of the user. So whay worry and make such sweeping statements.
 

Gautam

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L&T IFV look like another junk on line with Tata kestrel. typical Pvt sector, big mouth but nothing to show for when comes to actual delivery. But these are time of public loot of resources by Modi and his todies so no surprise here.
There were plenty who opposed the privatisation of commercial vehicle industry too. Stating that it would be a waste, pvt. companies wouldn't follow safety procedure, they would fill up their own coffers at the expense of the people etc etc. The communists most vocal of the critics.

Now the CPI(M) part leaders travel about in Mahindra Scorpios, TATA HEXA, et al. Oh how the tables turn.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

randomradio

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My point being what's futuristic about this? The Abhay is an old design. You've got guys citing the example of RoK in that an old design has been rendered contemporary using state of the art armaments, electronics, etc.

All sedans look the same at a glance, as do all split ACs. Can't judge a book by its cover. Need I say more?

What then was the brouhaha all about when IA first announced an SP Model under Design Make India ( DMI) for FICV & FRCV, particularly the former ( no clue what happened to the latter) with proposals of part finance / no finance from MoD towards developmental costs with no commitment for a contractual agreement towards production post development, followed by putting the entire proposal in the cold storage?

FICV is not in cold storage. And it's not an SPM project either. Only FRCV is.

Btw, I'm not a fan of the FICV. The protection levels sought out are too less. What we need is something on the level of the Israeli Namer or the Russian T-15 Armata. Both Namer and T-15 have better protection than all other older gen battle tanks in the world, and these are just IFVs. Although current gen APS can provide some level of protection against ATGMs, the FICV is going to be useless against IEDs, not to mention KE pentrators.

The only problem is making them float on water. Not to mention the lengthy development time, unlike FICV.

But it's fine if the FICV dies in favour of a larger and heavier design, as long as they can make it float. Probably the only criteria to keep the FICV alive.
L&T IFV look like another junk on line with Tata kestrel. typical Pvt sector, big mouth but nothing to show for when comes to actual delivery. But these are time of public loot of resources by Modi and his todies so no surprise here.

Even though FICV and Kestrel were under UPA?
Everyone is not of the same view other than shareholders of these companies....why should public money is needed to teach and spoon feed these maggots leaching on public resources, are they kids? What defence product they managed to build on their own without govt and crook military officials, beurocrates and politician intervention ? Don't tell me about assembling K 9 as next big thing....what so special about adani and ambani that govt is so meharban on them....what defence experience they have other than siphoning off public money so they can keep flourishing.

What public money?
 
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Nikhil

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You will be shocked to know that these companies have put in their own money to make the prototypes and the final say will be that of the user. So whay worry and make such sweeping statements.
Own money ? Oh! you mean to say the money Modi gave these crook as corporate tax cuts :unsure:.....and what with this Pvt sector participation BS you people keep harping about? Why not build few more state owned enterprise to compete with existing one like in China ? But then how come looser like adani, ambani and politician will make money :sneaky:
There were plenty who opposed the privatisation of commercial vehicle industry too. Stating that it would be a waste, pvt. companies wouldn't follow safety procedure, they would fill up their own coffers at the expense of the people etc etc. The communists most vocal of the critics.

Now the CPI(M) part leaders travel about in Mahindra Scorpios, TATA HEXA, et al. Oh how the tables turn.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
privatisation of commercial vehicle in India didn't bring a toilet paper worth of inovation just copycat of foreign technology and made sure foreign companies dominate Indian market specially Japanese. Indian Pvt sector is a big looser and a money making machine for crook politician and beurocrates from both military and civilian sector looking for post retirement benefits on dead bodies of poor Indians and working class.....in a true free market economy which many here keep harping about most of these companies won't even survive.
 

Gautam

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privatisation of commercial vehicle in India didn't bring a toilet paper worth of inovation just copycat of foreign technology and made sure foreign companies dominate Indian market specially Japanese. Indian Pvt sector is a big looser and a money making machine for crook politician and beurocrates from both military and civilian sector looking for post retirement benefits on dead bodies of poor Indians and working class.....in a true free market economy which many here keep harping about most of these companies won't even survive.
Shifting goal posts are you ? Have at it then.
First you want no privatisation then harp on about lack of innovation and free markets. Maintain one line of arguments please. You cannot have a lot of innovation without privatisation. Hindustan Motors were govt. owned wasn't it ? Why did it license manufacture Ambassador cars ? Where was the innovation then ? A lot of Indian motorcycles sell abroad especially TVS Apache and Bajaj Pulsar series in South America and the RE Himalayan, Interceptor et all sell all over the world. You sure the pvt. cos wouldn't survive competition ? Heck the pulsar was so successful In South America that the Chinese started to copy it and tried to sell it. Didn't work though.
How many jobs did privatisation bring ? How much increase in vehicle ownership ? How much improvement in overall quality of life ?

I can understand concerns about corruption. But its not as bad as you make it out to be. A rather defeatist mindset you have. All politicians are corrupt, so why vote. All police are corrupt, so why file cases. All judiciary is corrupt, so why fight cases etc etc.

What do we suggest ? Give it all up and attain sanyas ? In a democracy you use the system to improve the system. At least that's how it should be done. If everybody thought like you we'd all just give up.
 

Nikhil

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This is the might of Indian Pvt sector a junk APC with pathetic build quality by all world standard LOL....DRDO have to been roped in to give these loosers some breath of fresh air but Military is already looking for foreign option....I hope OFB come with better IFV design at least.
Before:
e40b1d1d59c239837a75302ad3888d16.jpg


After DRDO involvement... improvement yes! but crap want change into gold.
tata-whap8x8-icv-1537170040.jpg


Now compare this to Russian boomerang a state owned enterprise product of Russian industry superior in both build quality and level of high end technology it offer's.
400px-BTR_Bumerang_%2840115437840%29.jpg


Shifting goal posts are you ? Have at it then.
First you want no privatisation then harp on about lack of innovation and free markets. Maintain one line of arguments please. You cannot have a lot of innovation without privatisation. Hindustan Motors were govt. owned wasn't it ? Why did it license manufacture Ambassador cars ? Where was the innovation then ? A lot of Indian motorcycles sell abroad especially TVS Apache and Bajaj Pulsar series in South America and the RE Himalayan, Interceptor et all sell all over the world. You sure the pvt. cos wouldn't survive competition ? Heck the pulsar was so successful In South America that the Chinese started to copy it and tried to sell it. Didn't work though.
How many jobs did privatisation bring ? How much increase in vehicle ownership ? How much improvement in overall quality of life ?

I can understand concerns about corruption. But its not as bad as you make it out to be. A rather defeatist mindset you have. All politicians are corrupt, so why vote. All police are corrupt, so why file cases. All judiciary is corrupt, so why fight cases etc etc.

What do we suggest ? Give it all up and attain sanyas ? In a democracy you use the system to improve the system. At least that's how it should be done. If everybody thought like you we'd all just give up.
So adani ambani are new innovator of pvt defence industry... nothing to do with crony capitalism.