Indian semiconductor ecosystem: News, Updates & Discussions.

randomradio said:
There are private companies that are deeply interested in setting up fabs. But they decided to hold off on it because the domestic market is still immature and the govt wasn't providing enough sops to set up.

Both HCL and HSMC+Jaypee have tried and failed. HCL found the market immature and Jaypee couldn't secure the funding needed to allow the govt to invest.
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so if some tom , dick & harry comes and asks money for a space shuttle will you give it? All these companies have zero bkground in technology and are there just to swindle money out from the govt.

What you are talking abt is a classical chicken & egg problem? they see no demand but consumers see no right priced product. There is tonne of demand for mobile phones which includes display panels same as used in TV but no one is producing display panels in India rt?

Investments are recouped over 10-15 year period, which involves a lot of planning ,risk management including investing in R&D , talent acquisition not to mention competition. But the Indian companies are primitive creatures who want zero risk, invest nothing in R&D but make profit in 2 or 3 years right away.

Given that no plant will be set up in India , does the govt have a plan B to secure chip supply? I bet morons have none.

randomradio said:
HCL found the market immature and Jaypee couldn't secure the funding needed to allow the govt to invest.
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Sour grapes they are the same thugs who say they are not enough skilled cloud professionals, (for their cheap salary) but would not even know what cloud is all about.
 
jetray said:
so if some tom , dick & harry comes and asks money for a space shuttle will you give it? All these companies have zero bkground in technology and are there just to swindle money out from the govt.

What you are talking abt is a classical chicken & egg problem? they see no demand but consumers see no right priced product. There is tonne of demand for mobile phones which includes display panels same as used in TV but no one is producing display panels in India rt?

Investments are recouped over 10-15 year period, which involves a lot of planning ,risk management including investing in R&D , talent acquisition not to mention competition. But the Indian companies are primitive creatures who want zero risk, invest nothing in R&D but make profit in 2 or 3 years right away.

Given that no plant will be set up in India , does the govt have a plan B to secure chip supply? I bet morons have none.



Sour grapes they are the same thugs who say they are not enough skilled cloud professionals, (for their cheap salary) but would not even know what cloud is all about.
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HCL had tied up with AMD and another unnamed fab company (probably a mix of local and global companies). They were willing to invest too, as long as the govt made it worth their while through legislation, like protecting their investment, which the govt was also willing to do.

It wasn't a chicken/egg problem. The market in the early part of the previous decade was non-existent. You speak of cellphones, but they became big in India only after 2016. The privates asked the govt to compensate for the difference in their investment due to the immature market, but the govt wasn't willing to do that 'cause they were also broke at the time.

HSMC + Japyee's plan was also pretty big.
www.livemint.com

HSMC ties up with L&T, IL&FS to set up semiconductor plant

L&T and IL&FS will take a stake in the project, construct the wafer fab and complete the first phase by 2016
www.livemint.com www.livemint.com

HCL is still in the race. They are gonna invest through the new PLI scheme.
www.thehindu.com

HCL, Applied Materials and others to invest â¹5,000 crore in Karnataka

Manufacturing facilities for semiconductors, electronics, solar cells, washing machines, motors for air-conditioners in the pipeline
www.thehindu.com www.thehindu.com

www.thehindubusinessline.com

Over 20 semiconductor cos submit EOIs for PLI Scheme

The government will be open to negotiating new incentives
www.thehindubusinessline.com www.thehindubusinessline.com

There's also new focus on compound semiconductors rather than only silicon. Now the market is mature, and the govt expenditure needed today is much more affordable.
 
randomradio said:
HCL had tied up with AMD and another unnamed fab company (probably a mix of local and global companies). They were willing to invest too, as long as the govt made it worth their while through legislation, like protecting their investment, which the govt was also willing to do.
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really ? AMD themselves were trying to get rid of their fab Global foundries what makes you think they would want to get into another one ?
randomradio said:
It wasn't a chicken/egg problem. The market in the early part of the previous decade was non-existent. You speak of cellphones, but they became big in India only after 2016. The privates asked the govt to compensate for the difference in their investment due to the immature market, but the govt wasn't willing to do that 'cause they were also broke at the time.
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keep spinning tales, I have been using cell phone a decade before 2016. In fact before cell phones lcd tvs became such a moving item that govt had to impose 38% import duty to protect local industry. why in the world would govt impose 38% duty on imported TV's if there was no market?
why do you think samsung had samtron in India then ?
randomradio said:
HCL is still in the race. They are gonna invest through the new PLI scheme.
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yeah 5000 crore is a good starting point for stamping SMD pcb boards but not fabs.

You can keep spinning tales but the hard fact is that semi-conductor industry in India is going now where and consumers will have to pay for it dearly in short run , in the long run it puts our economic security on the line.
 
jetray said:
really ? AMD themselves were trying to get rid of their fab Global foundries what makes you think they would want to get into another one ?
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Red herring. You are talking about now. HCL and AMD's deal was more than 10 years old.

jetray said:
keep spinning tales, I have been using cell phone a decade before 2016.
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Red herring. I am obviously referring to smartphones that require high end processors, memories etc, not Nokia 3310 or 6600. Even today smartphone penetration is just 30%.

jetray said:
In fact before cell phones lcd tvs became such a moving item that govt had to impose 38% import duty to protect local industry. why in the world would govt impose 38% duty on imported TV's if there was no market?
why do you think samsung had samtron in India then ?
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It's not like we were a zero in electronics. The HCL and HSMC projects were for chips, not TVs.

jetray said:
yeah 5000 crore is a good starting point for stamping SMD pcb boards but not fabs.
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That's just initial funding from multiple companies for a state led program. You said private companies aren't interested, so I gave you an example of the interest they have already shown even without PLI.

We will get to know more once the central govt decides on the companies they plan to invest in through PLI. It's only after that can the states start wooing companies.

jetray said:
You can keep spinning tales but the hard fact is that semi-conductor industry in India is going now where and consumers will have to pay for it dearly in short run , in the long run it puts our economic security on the line.
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That's an answer we will get sometime this year.

www.ndtv.com

Rs 76,000 Crore PLI Scheme Approved For Semiconductor Manufacturing

www.ndtv.com www.ndtv.com
The PLI scheme involves an outlay of ₹ 76,000 crore in semiconductor production over the next 5-6 years. As part of the scheme, the incentives include every part of the supply chain ranging from electronic components, sub-assemblies, to finished goods.

The incentive support of around ₹ 55,392 crore is approved under PLI for the larges scale electronics manufacturing, PLI for IT hardware, SPECS scheme, and modified electronics manufacturing clusters (EMC 2.0) scheme, according to the statement.

Additionally, PLI incentives of around ₹ 98,000 crore are approved for allied sectors comprising of ACC battery, auto components, telecom & networking products, solar PV modules, and white goods. Overall, the government has committed monetary support of ₹ 2,30,000 crore to position India as a global hub for electronics manufacturing with semiconductors as the foundation, according to the Cabinet statement today.

PLI means free money to industries, based on merit.

In compound semiconductors, we have already created capacities due to strategic needs. So we may see an expansion for civilian use in this segment.
 
jetray said:
Until nearly 2000 there were assemblers in India some of them being wipro, HCL infosystem...etc. Post 2000 most of them exited the hardware business & went completely to software side. Along with STPI , SEZ scheme was launched in 1991 which gave complete freedom to companies to import equipment duty free & all the exports were tax free. As such post 1991 companies had all the freedom to whatever they want inside SEZ no excuses there.

Most of the fabs operating today were started post 1990, in fact TSMC was started in 1987 , fab around 1990. India was not far behind, infact SCL was working on 1000 nm while rest of them were a generation or two ahead at 200-300 nm. As usual we dint keep up with rest of the world.
Neither the govt nor the private industry took that forward but instead went for easy money called software services which by the way needed massive hardware imports from the very same countries.
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Anything hardware was a loss-making business in India. Setting up SEZ does not even solve half the problem. Basic logistic infra, uninterrupted and cheap power, and red tape are just a few. None of the companies from the pre liberalization era survived. Which says a lot.

jetray said:
I think you are still living in a world where you think semi conductor is cyclical commodity which can be bought off shelf whenever we need.
Semiconductors need huge investment, margins were razer thin as the demand was less earlier. But that was before when usage of semis was not widespread, they were mostly used in IT systems only.
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The industry will remain cyclical with razor-thin margins. Only a handful of companies will make any kind of profit. ARM for design, TSMC, Samsung for foundry, and ASML for lithography. There will be a huge oversupply in a few years with all the massive investments going on today. Nothing fundamentally changed in this world.

Even if we play all our cards right today we won't become a dominating position in the industry in our lifetime. In this decade at best we cold become good at the packaging.

jetray said:
Semi-conductor is the future oil, either invest in it or being dependent on them like we are dependent on oil from middle east.
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No, it's not. Rare earth material could be the "new oil" definitely not the "semiconductor".

jetray said:
is a comparison between infosys & TSMC operating margin.
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This comparison is funny. TSMC is a near-monopoly with 50%+ market share. With the second foundry samsung they control 75% of the market. Infosys and TCS are IT service businesses with the USP cheap labour. Hope you understand the difference.

jetray said:
Indians always have this excuse, low margins, ultra competitive, can be bought off the shelf., small market...etc but these are simple BS excuses. Hard truth is that India is incompetent, we can hardly compete with world.
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I have seen the Chinese making excuses why they are terrible at the service business which we dominate. They compare our AC buildings to their factory sweatshops.
 
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Look at SMC mfg as refining crude oil then & acquire that capability to "refine crude oil " including all the capabilities that go with it viz design expertise, construction, testing aka SITC, packaging, etc. The world over refining crude is a risky low margin high investment activity as well with companies frequently going belly up & new players coming in all the time.

That certainly doesn't prevent pvt players & governments from getting into it for it's a vital sub function of national interest & strategy.
 
Given India's vast market, we should have tied up with russia on hardware though it might not have been as successful as western tech it would have given us a optional alternative choice when things go haywire.

 
A quick query,

Are there any Digital Storage Oscilloscopes made by Indian companies? In the same breath are there any manufacturers in India that build simultaneous sampling multi-channel data acquisition devices?

@randomradio @Ashwin
 
Milspec said:
A quick query,

Are there any Digital Storage Oscilloscopes made by Indian companies? In the same breath are there any manufacturers in India that build simultaneous sampling multi-channel data acquisition devices?

@randomradio @Ashwin
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www.scientechworld.com

Scientech Technologies - Education, Training, Testing Instrument and Renewable Solutions

Scientech is the leading manufacturer and supplier of test & measurement instruments, education & training equipment, pcb printer, Techbooks, lab instruments & more
www.scientechworld.com www.scientechworld.com


G-Tek Manufacturer of data recording solutions in India

G-Tek Corporation Pvt. Ltd. a pioneer in the manufacturing of data recording solutions like Circular Chart recorders, Strip Chart recorders, Paperless Recorders, data loggers, inkless recorders, storage recorders and scanners
gtek-india.com gtek-india.com

www.ajiteksolutions.in

Manufacturer of FPGA Development Boards & Expansion Modules by Ajitek Tech Solutions Private Limited, Hyderabad

Ajitek Tech Solutions Private Limited - Manufacturer of FPGA Development Boards, Expansion Modules & Interconnect Modules from Hyderabad, Telangana, India
www.ajiteksolutions.in www.ajiteksolutions.in

Not sure how much of their products are Indian IP. Some of it could be repackaged Chini maal.
 
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randomradio said:
www.scientechworld.com

Scientech Technologies - Education, Training, Testing Instrument and Renewable Solutions

Scientech is the leading manufacturer and supplier of test & measurement instruments, education & training equipment, pcb printer, Techbooks, lab instruments & more
www.scientechworld.com www.scientechworld.com


G-Tek Manufacturer of data recording solutions in India

G-Tek Corporation Pvt. Ltd. a pioneer in the manufacturing of data recording solutions like Circular Chart recorders, Strip Chart recorders, Paperless Recorders, data loggers, inkless recorders, storage recorders and scanners
gtek-india.com gtek-india.com

www.ajiteksolutions.in

Manufacturer of FPGA Development Boards & Expansion Modules by Ajitek Tech Solutions Private Limited, Hyderabad

Ajitek Tech Solutions Private Limited - Manufacturer of FPGA Development Boards, Expansion Modules & Interconnect Modules from Hyderabad, Telangana, India
www.ajiteksolutions.in www.ajiteksolutions.in

Not sure how much of their products are Indian IP. Some of it could be repackaged Chini maal.
Click to expand...
Most of it, all rigol, pico, hantek, -chinese stuff.
 
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