Indian Naval Aviation : Updates and Discussions

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Asper your time line, if we start super Sukhoi upgrade today ,the last jet will be completing it's upgradation by 2037.

Depends on how quickly we will upgrade them. It could take anywhere between 6-12 years because of the overhaul interval. The last MKI that was delivered in 2021 can undergo overhaul in 2027, and it could be upgraded then. Or the IAF can continue using the old configuration until its next overhaul cycle in 2033.

Since we can overhaul 42 jets a year, we can easily upgrade all the MKIs in a single sitting regardless of when they were delivered.

And, let's assume the upgraded MKI will serve minimum 15-20 years more and by going IAF track record, we will phaseout mki around 2060. Do we really need to use MKI till then? Also not to forget that the upgradation we envisioned now most probably will be a mediocre one by 2037.
So my question is instead of wasting money on MKI upgradation,why don't we induct more capable fighters ,say by 2035 onwards?

Depends. The full life of the MKI is 25 years. We can opt to use the jet for 25 years, or add another 12 years if necessary through life extension. The bulk of our fleet came in between 2009 and 2015, so they can be replaced from 2034-40, if life extension is not carried out. A 12-year extension will mean 2046-52.

The MKI was originally designed for 17-25 years, but Sukhoi managed to push that to 25-39 years, and it became one of the reasons to kill FGFA.
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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Hay @randomradio , I was thinking that what if instead of buying costly new jets for old ACC, IN just lease few USN F18 (block 2 or if available, Block 3) for IAC 1 and 2 ?
As if you think seriously, besides Mig 29K, F18 is the only option IN has as both are of exactly same width with wing folded. Rafale is just too big, and any modification will gonna be very expensive and needless for a Ski jump carrier which is inherently inefficient design for its fighter fleet load outs.

US Nevy is retiring a lot of F18 block 2 birds and even a lot of block 3s too is going to stateside very soon. And for IAC 1 even block 2 will be more than enough. Only downside is that they can’t takeoff with as much load a Rafale M from the ski jump. But then our Migs are even worse.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India
Hay @randomradio , I was thinking that what if instead of buying costly new jets for old ACC, IN just lease few USN F18 (block 2 or if available, Block 3) for IAC 1 and 2 ?
As if you think seriously, besides Mig 29K, F18 is the only option IN has as both are of exactly same width with wing folded. Rafale is just too big, and any modification will gonna be very expensive and needless for a Ski jump carrier which is inherently inefficient design for its fighter fleet load outs.

US Nevy is retiring a lot of F18 block 2 birds and even a lot of block 3s too is going to stateside very soon. And for IAC 1 even block 2 will be more than enough. Only downside is that they can’t takeoff with as much load a Rafale M from the ski jump. But then our Migs are even worse.

There was a plan to lease SHs. But I think the IN decided to go for fresh build B3s instead.

It's very likely that the USN had no intention of leasing their own jets in such large numbers, 'cause they are also short, and they need to buy new jets to replace the leased ones, which doesn't make sense for them at this time.
 

AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
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There was a plan to lease SHs. But I think the IN decided to go for fresh build B3s instead.

It's very likely that the USN had no intention of leasing their own jets in such large numbers, 'cause they are also short, and they need to buy new jets to replace the leased ones, which doesn't make sense for them at this time.
They are going for F35s though. No new F18s anymore, while they will start phasing out Block 2 super hornets pretty soon.
@vstol Jockey
 

randomradio

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They are going for F35s though. No new F18s anymore, while they will start phasing out Block 2 super hornets pretty soon.
@vstol Jockey

The F-35Cs are replacing the Hornets. They plan on replacing their SHs with the USN-NGAD.

Even in our case, the F-35C would be the better option. But the IN is not interested in it. Plus the fact that we operate way too much Russian stuff for the Americans to be comfortable, especially considering one of our carriers is of Russian make.

Anyway, at this time the USN doesn't have a deadline for the retirement of the SH yet. It's expected that the NGAD will start replacing the SH before 2035 and the process should complete by 2050, around the time the last of the B2 is retired. Presumably the USN will continue operating the fresh-built 78 SH B3s beyond 2050, alongside Kuwait's 28 and our 26, the combined 132 should have a viable future until 2060, alongside many of the 150 Growlers. Germany could also be buying 30 SHs and 15 Growlers. That's well over 300 fighters. Hopefully, the IN and German versions will get a GaN upgrade.

They are currently upgrading all their old SHs to Block 3 standards.

At the same time, the Navy is putting its Block II Super Hornets through a life-extension program, and all aircraft going through those upgrades — meant to fix wear and tear on the airframe and extend the jets from 6,000 to 10,000 hours of flight time — will receive upgrades to the Block III configuration. Tebo said that if the Navy puts all its Block II aircraft through the modification program, the service would have more than 500 total Block III aircraft — new and upgraded — that would continue trickling into the fleet well into the 2030s.

The IN won't be disadvantaged by the SH.
 

Tatvamasi

Senior member
Jan 5, 2018
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They are going for F35s though. No new F18s anymore, while they will start phasing out Block 2 super hornets pretty soon.
@vstol Jockey
lol what ? they just ordered more SH block 3s.

 

zinswinsin

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
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The USN is on that delusional hookah.

There are 3 major programs of record for development this decade.

The destroyer Burke replacement clean sheet, the Virginia nuke sub replacement and the FA-XX. They really only have money for 1 at a time and it's gonna be in that order.

Besides, the navy isn't a pilot dominated institution so drones will be more popular.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
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Nov 30, 2017
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A lot of bloggers & you-tube channels didn't counted Neuron as a very strong possibility which can be part of INS Vikrant, INS Vikrant is a platform for future UCAVs squadrons which are small & carried in greater numbers,Neurons / Ghatak along LCA / MIGS / RAFALE M. #IndianNavy
I think, Its not possible to take off without an afterburner from a STOBAR. French build it as TD it is not supposed to enter service.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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Nov 30, 2017
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The presentation of a French document:


Today, the Rafale Marine (M) takes off from an aircraft carrier equipped with catapults. For export and interoperability purposes, the study aims to determine the Rafale M's ability to take off from a deck with a springboard and without a catapult. The aim of the study is to determine under what conditions the Rafale M is capable of taking off from an aircraft carrier without catapults but equipped with a springboard deck. The work carried out was to identify the problems linked to a take-off on a springboard and then to modify the Rafale's control laws, especially the control of the control surfaces, to allow the take-off to take place in compliance with the specifications. We succeeded in demonstrating the feasibility of the Rafale M's take-off on a springboard and in determining the maximum acceptable masses. We have also shown that the aircraft's settings can withstand a drop in relative wind and the loss of an afterburner on the springboard if the pilot reacts quickly enough.
 
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Tatvamasi

Senior member
Jan 5, 2018
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12628614_997970733574883_5950324668482345691_o.jpg
 

randomradio

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lol what ? they just ordered more SH block 3s.


They didn't order more. It's their last set of 78 being delivered until 2024, that I have already mentioned in the post you quoted.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India
The USN is on that delusional hookah.

There are 3 major programs of record for development this decade.

The destroyer Burke replacement clean sheet, the Virginia nuke sub replacement and the FA-XX. They really only have money for 1 at a time and it's gonna be in that order.

Besides, the navy isn't a pilot dominated institution so drones will be more popular.

What you read is just politics. Fear-mongering is how you get funding, and the navy got the funding they desired after they played their hand.
 
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