Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
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Tripura, NE, India
You probably failed to read and understand me completely.
Went back and read the following comments, realized that I totally jumped the gun there. My apologies Sir, got too exited.
We used our technology to modify it and convert it to a Ka band seeker head. 99% of 4th Gen fighters flying in the world do not have ESM and jamming capability for Ka band.
Whoa, did not see that coming. I presume seekers are only going to get better with time/usage, also with maturing of SFDR technology we are looking at the makings of a serious air dominance weapon.
How long do you think it will take to mature the SFDR ? Livefist reported a decade. Seems a bit too long.
Don't you think the current Astra mk 1 is a bit lower on the range ? What would be the range of Astrta mk 2 ?
 

vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
5,662
11,091
New Delhi
How long do you think it will take to mature the SFDR ? Livefist reported a decade. Seems a bit too long.
Don't you think the current Astra mk 1 is a bit lower on the range ? What would be the range of Astrta mk 2 ?
I will be very interested in SFDR and Astra Mk-2. I can tell you that Indian brain is the finest in the world and if we are able to develop these techs successfully, we will have the world beating tech with us.
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,774
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Tripura, NE, India
I will be very interested in SFDR and Astra Mk-2. I can tell you that Indian brain is the finest in the world and if we are able to develop these techs successfully, we will have the world beating tech with us.
You probably already know this. Its been out for a while. It seems Astra mk-2 and SFDR based missile are two different projects. Mk-2 is supposed to be a intermediate between MK-1 and SFDR in terms of range. The link below will give you a CFD of Astra mk-2.
Aerodynamic Analysis of AirtoAir BVR Missile - Zeus Numerix

If you have time do check out the rest of their website, if you haven't already. Its a start up by some IIT graduates providing very advanced computer simulation, analysis, CFD etc. to a wide variety of clients. They seem to have had something to do with ISRO scramjet engine test.
Customized CFD Software for Scramjet Engine - Zeus Numerix
Remember these :
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These images are to purely remind us of the work that goes on behind the scene.

Oh and also they apparently have a lot of foreign clients. One of their client is Republic of Korea. Apparently Korea sought help for designing a Supersonic Air-breathing Ramjet engine. Sound familiar ?
Performance Characterization of Air Breathing Engine - Zeus Numerix
I can understand a start up having super advanced simulation capability, but I don't understand how can they help such projects with DRDO's and by extension GoI's blessings. So what's cooking ?
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
4,105
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Bangalore
We have used the complete architecture of Agat in This. the Initial lot of Astra missiles had fully imported seeker. We learnt from them and developed one for ourselves. We used our technology to modify it and convert it to a Ka band seeker head. 99% of 4th Gen fighters flying in the world do not have ESM and jamming capability for Ka band.
Still, you didn't explain why you think we just took complete agat architecture. Just because we initially used an imported item?

If you go by the DRDO's works as evidence then it's clear that they go for clean sheet design.

Manik engine which will replace NPO Saturn 36MT on nirbhay has better performance specifications. Same goes for the new 1500hp engine under development for Arjun. Its designed to outperform the German ones. In both cases, we went for a superior state of the art design.

Edit: Added references
 
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Ashwin

Agent_47
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Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
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I will be very interested in SFDR and Astra Mk-2. I can tell you that Indian brain is the finest in the world and if we are able to develop these techs successfully, we will have the world beating tech with us.
SFDR project is a JV with the Russians. And it's a TD to validate propulsion, not the whole missile.
 
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Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,774
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Tripura, NE, India
Read the last tweet. --"A ramjet powered ARM that is considerably lighter than NGARM"

If I am not wrong NGARM uses a solid fueled dual pulse detonation engine which is a very advanced lightweight propulsion system(which is why it was chosen to be used for an Airborne missile). Now making a ramjet ARM that is considerably lighter would also mean its a solid fueled Ramjet(since liquid fueled rockets are generally heavier and we are sure as hell not making a cryogenic engine). Isn't the SFDR supposed to be the Indo-Russian solid fuel ramjet project ? Is this a different project ? or is it supposed to use the SFDR engine ? The current NGARM is supposed to have a range of 100-125 km. It would also be safe to assume the ramjet ARM will have a much longer range. Since ramjets tend to be more expensive,more complex and more time consuming to build than solid rocket engines, it only makes sense to build them if they give you a performance boost that cannot be replicated by the dual pulse propulsion. So we are talking 125+ km of range at least. Being able to detect/engage targets from this far away would require a serious sensor package(both passive and active). Interesting times ahead.

Also, remember Rudra-2, Rudra-3 what are they exactly ?
 

CountryFirst

Active member
Dec 11, 2017
459
185
Bharat
Still, you didn't explain why you think we just took complete agat architecture. Just because we initially used an imported item?

If you go by the DRDO's works as evidence then it's clear that they go for clean sheet design.

Manik engine which will replace NPO Saturn 36MT on nirbhay has better performance specifications. Same goes for the new 1500hp engine under development for Arjun. Its designed to outperform the German ones. In both cases, we went for a superior state of the art design.

Edit: Added references

We should put in the 1900hp electric engine of Pininfarina Battista now owned by Mahindra. That will also reduce the weight and help Arjun meet targets set by Army easily while getting more powerful.
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,774
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Tripura, NE, India
I wasn't kidding. Isn't it workable??
Don't think so. Just my opinion. Firstly how do you charge the batteries in the battlefield ? Secondly the Battista's power train doesn't even have a transmission. Great for takeoff speeds and acceleration, not for hauling armour/gun/ammo and clearing AT trenches etc. For a tank, torque figures are more important than HP.:)
 
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kurup

Active member
Dec 4, 2017
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India
Read the last tweet. --"A ramjet powered ARM that is considerably lighter than NGARM"

If I am not wrong NGARM uses a solid fueled dual pulse detonation engine which is a very advanced lightweight propulsion system(which is why it was chosen to be used for an Airborne missile). Now making a ramjet ARM that is considerably lighter would also mean its a solid fueled Ramjet(since liquid fueled rockets are generally heavier and we are sure as hell not making a cryogenic engine). Isn't the SFDR supposed to be the Indo-Russian solid fuel ramjet project ? Is this a different project ? or is it supposed to use the SFDR engine ? The current NGARM is supposed to have a range of 100-125 km. It would also be safe to assume the ramjet ARM will have a much longer range. Since ramjets tend to be more expensive,more complex and more time consuming to build than solid rocket engines, it only makes sense to build them if they give you a performance boost that cannot be replicated by the dual pulse propulsion. So we are talking 125+ km of range at least. Being able to detect/engage targets from this far away would require a serious sensor package(both passive and active). Interesting times ahead.

Also, remember Rudra-2, Rudra-3 what are they exactly ?

You took it the wrong way . What Vijainder sir meant was that ,

Ramjet powered ARM = father of (rocket motor powered and considerably lighter NGARM!)
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,774
7,887
Tripura, NE, India
You took it the wrong way . What Vijainder sir meant was that ,

Ramjet powered ARM = father of (rocket motor powered and considerably lighter NGARM!)
I still don't get it. Ramjet ARM ? ARM stands for Anti-Radiation Missile right ? NGARM is already out on testing. For a ramjet powered ARM to be father of NGARM shouldn't it be already in service, given that fathers are generally older than their sons.(can't speak for step-fathers though :p)

I you could please elaborate sir, that would be very helpful.