Indian Army has killed 5 Pakistani soldiers for every one jawan it has lost. What more can it do?
- Thread starter Dillinger
- Start date
The answer is that we hit them and then they will Behave for a While
You want permanent solution in an INSTANT ; that is not coming
That is the thing. We are NOT advocating negotiations. The experts in the article are NOT advocating negotiations either. One of them calls for a decades-long, if need be, strategy of attrition against Pak. The other calls for light on their feet defence assets that can be deployed quickly enough to deal a strong blow across the IB and come back before anyone can stop us. Should we absolutely stop looking at military solutions because we are both nuclear powers? Don't you think it is becoming a mental barrier: they have nukes so now we cannot act militarily against them in a direct manner?
What do you know about Pakistani mentality
Who do you think represents Pakistan
The Non entities like Asma jehangir or the Pakistan Army
which articulates its VISION document through Zaid Hamid
Well If the was the case this, then there is no relavance for the Opening Post of this thread...... But mate.... That is not the case...... You are not dealing with a normal Military, But PA..... A different force with very few like them in this world......
If you are expert would love to learn from you...... But does nation has a mentality in first place????
Still a tactical change.
Military strategy is a misleading and narrow term. There is a national strategy. We must win there. Military is but a tool.
The more we win there, the more desperate they become and open more fronts and change their tactics to demoralise us. If we refuse to be demoralised by this, there is ZILCH they can do.
I strongly recommend we take information warfare seriously and project our real victories vigorously. That will demoralise the enemy population.
Again you are missing the point
Pakistan's only strength is Nukes
But they do have many weaknesses
that is what we can exploit ; it is battle of attrition
which will take a long time
They will simply collapse due to these Many conflicts that they themselves have created
or if they realise their folly they will give up this enmity
By the way they are more afraid of Afghans than India
Because pathans have a nasty reputation they take revenge even after centuries
What they have done to Afghanistan will kill them ultimately
Similarly US too will not easily forgive their Back stabbing
Balochistan is on fire
Iran will create problems for them because of the Shia sunni factor
How long will China keep supporting this Toxic entity which is showing No promise or giving no returns
We must indeed. But national strategy includes military strategy. The article and thread deals with the latter. As far as the broad national vision goes, we have done better than Pakistan for ages. We are on path to be the third largest economy in the world, they are well on their way to be a Chinese colony. The question here is, how do we better defend our selves and better deter the enemy as we grow into our rightful place as a nation.
In Pakistan ; only the Pak Army has the right and the power to decide their
Attitude and policy towards India which then percolates through out the country as the National Policy or we can say it becomes their attitude and mentality
So you need to find out what exactly pak army and ISI think and believe about India
I appreciate what you ae saying. But this is where I also see confusion in your assertions. This is not a strategic matter, does not call for a strategy change. Its a military tactical matter alone and there some things are given
1 we have to react. This is because the enemy has initiative. Every time a new front is opened, we have to spend a LOT to cover those fronts. Mumbai attacks for example.
2 but we also do the same. We keep playing the same game and open new fronts in enemy country too. Make this expensive. We have more money. We have more money because our national strategy is sound.
Not ideal, yes. We do not live in an ideal world, thats why we even have a military.
Yeah I agree.... Nukes are a strength, and with their tactical Nukes they have multiplied their strength (assuming that they have the real capacity)
I am aware of this, the question is area we ready for this ourselves???? What are all our gains, and the cost to be paid the same.... If the gains are gonna weigh higher, even on a longer perspective then we should capitalize on our strength.... But i doubt that is teh case here.... The gains are too low for the cost to be paid....
They are a strong nation, and you think they will collapse, Well no..... They also has equal friends and in some cases stronger than ours.... and let us not forget the word "Ummah" though today it may not be significant, but that does have significance....... Yeserday PA has committed troops to SA.....
Do not forget China has made huge investment in pakistan and wont sit idle watching it, they will do everything to release the pressure on them...
There is no fire there... That was defused long back....
China factor will come in..... They have invested hugely on pakistan, and China's regional power ambitions or their stature in world will be at stake..... So they will not allow it to happen..... The problem with support of US is, they still need pakistan for the success in Afghanistan, let us be honest, with out pakistan support afghanistan cannot be won, even with the support pakistan will ensure that US doesnt win the war there.... So US is also stuck and will not support us beyond a point.... they will support us if we are or our actions are in their national interest.......
I feel there is not much we can do with pakistan, unless we are ready for an all out war.... If not it will be a hot and cold relationship forever....
What you and many other members are stating is only a partial view through the prism of Indo Pak ties with possibly a filter named the US . While we have come to terms with the status quo as it does exist between India & Pakistan , what has complicated matters for us is the deepening of the strategic ties between China & Pak manifest most clearly in the CPEC .
Improvement in economic ties vide the CPEC will not act as a moderating influence on PA going by past experiences ( please refer to the background and economic conditions of India & Pakistan before the 1965 war ) . It has been the avowed aim of the PA to inveigle their patron nation in their war against us. The US & KSA didn't exactly rise upto the bait & expectations of the PA in the past . We don't know to what extent the Chinese could be baited by the PA into fighting their war with us . Frankly , the Chinese would prefer the Pakistanis fight their own war but with their economic interests at stake , it certainly exposes them to a certain amount of risk which they aren't prepared or comfortable facing , but which they'd be forced to confront .
Under these circumstances , with these facts on the table , what are our options ?
Quite a lot , frankly without getting into a full scale war . Quite a few have been mentioned in the posts above .Let me try and enumerate them -
Continue the pressure on the border increasing/decreasing the intensity with QRT( so called surgical strikes ) assaults thrown in across the LoC every now & then .
Apart from forcing Pakistan to commit more troops to guard their Eastern frontiers , they'd be forced to leave their Western front lightly protected and constrict their WoT vide Operation Radd ul Fasaad , Zarb e Khasb , etc .
Increase cooperation with the Afghanistan Army , the NDS , etc instigating the TTP to undertake more operations of a spectacular / devastating nature within PAKISTAN. ( We always need to be careful to involve intermediaries like the NDS or other such sources for these operations to ensure plausible deniability )
One doesn't know the actual quantum of resources committed by the Chinese irrespective of what the Chinese & Pakistani press say . There's a degree of wariness in both camps - in the Pakistani one , the nature of Chinese debt traps is making them wary . On the Chinese side - the growing instability in Pakistan , lack of a central authority , increasing trust being reposed in the PA as not only the guardian but also arbiter of Pakistan's destiny to the extent that they've openly gone on record seeking active participation of the PA in clearing bottlenecks and inviting more active participation of the PA in the CPEC .
Our job would be to sow more dissension and increase the gulf between the civilian and the military leadership.
Step up our support to the freedom fighters in Baluchistan .
Step up support to marginalised groups in Sind like the MQM.
Reach out to the IDP through intermediaries in Afghanistan in FATA & KPK and provide them with material support to carry out insurrectionary activity .
Try to fund common cause with Iran . The more Pakistan tries to maintain equidistance between Iran & KSA , the more they'd be subject to pulls in all directions given their dire financial conditions . The fault lines thus exposed are the foundations we build on .
Continue building up pressure through diplomatic efforts on Pakistan in bilateral & multilateral meetings , different fora across the world , etc.
This helps in moulding public and government opinions .
Continue CO operation in such fora as FATF with like minded countries in imposing sanctions and hence a cost on Pakistan .
Finally , we may , just may , have the need to mount our own version of Kargil ,ever so rarely - a sort of salami slicing as it were to impose costs on the PA.
This is a proxy war being waged as a LIC situation . A full fledged war or even a localised conflict has the possibility ruin our calculations and slow down our growth .
However that has to balanced against a larger more holistic picture - that of the deepening of the China Pak strategic calculus and the presence of NW in Pakistan . It's the latter two which has the West led by the US to refocus attention on Pakistan . Its something which impacts our strategic calculations in a bad way too.
One can be sure , that the US cannot afford to let China dominate strategic choke points like the Bab el Mendheb or the Straits of Hormuz a la the SCS , ECS which has seen China establish it's superiority .
How and what this portends for Pakistan will be answered in a short time - in a time span of the next 3-5 years or less .
I seriously doubt this 1:5 kill ratio . At best it would be 1:2/3. However if it's a propaganda article written for pakistani audiences I would love to see some more like this.
In many debates I hear them about india waging multi dimensional war on them. We should kill X advertise 2X, and destroy their economy which is already on lifeline and we should make sure that it dies eventually or become so bad that no one can salvage it.
Iran could have been one of our greatest ally against pakistan but god knows when they will wake up and start working as a tag team in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
In many debates I hear them about india waging multi dimensional war on them. We should kill X advertise 2X, and destroy their economy which is already on lifeline and we should make sure that it dies eventually or become so bad that no one can salvage it.
Iran could have been one of our greatest ally against pakistan but god knows when they will wake up and start working as a tag team in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Folks, I have never been on LoC or deployed on any border --for obvious reasons-- so, I doubt I know the situation there at all. That said, there are usually two choices you have in conflict if you are fighting a smaller but well entrenched enemy like Pakistan.
1. Commit more assets to the existing front.
2. Open few more fronts.
I don't know which one will work for us better. Maybe if we can open a front on Afghani soil, by taking help from Afghani side, it may work for us. Capture these *censored*s in a pincer situation and make them stretch their resources. I will not like any front to be opened near our population centres. May be arming the right factions of Afghan militia is the answer. May be a permanent but very limited military presence in Afghanistan is the answer. Make them feel the heat from both sides. Fund and support insurgency in Balochistan, FATA, KPK via Afghanistan on a massive scale.
1. Commit more assets to the existing front.
2. Open few more fronts.
I don't know which one will work for us better. Maybe if we can open a front on Afghani soil, by taking help from Afghani side, it may work for us. Capture these *censored*s in a pincer situation and make them stretch their resources. I will not like any front to be opened near our population centres. May be arming the right factions of Afghan militia is the answer. May be a permanent but very limited military presence in Afghanistan is the answer. Make them feel the heat from both sides. Fund and support insurgency in Balochistan, FATA, KPK via Afghanistan on a massive scale.
You mean placing our troops in Afghanistan?
We don't want to give Pakistan the excuse that we are trying to encircle them. It's better to just fund the Afghans to do it for us.
