India - United States Relations

Aniruddha said:
So this Takla clown 🤡 🤡 is basically suggesting to bend over backwards.
Chellaney's credibility is digging his own grave unless it's not already 6ft under.
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There are plenty of analysts on X who suddenly have switched positions and are now saying that the GoI was arrogant when it comes to closing the deal. Till about a month ago they were all saying that the PM has no backbone and bends too easily. Many are there for engagement or just to remain relevant via SM.

Many switch their positions based on who funds them (its that simple often).
 
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Hydra said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2009654165933592836
We need US on our side because of this.
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Right now we need economic security and US is out to destroy us economically. China is a manageable threat and also a rational actor. US on the other hand is a anglo-saxon power which is thousands of miles away who has infamous reputation for use and throw.

Once we grow to be a bigger economy we can tackle challenges on our own and decide our own allies/options. Right now we need balance china against US, that will reduce US influence and power to harm us.
 
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Subgradewalker said:
Wasn't hydra the one criticising Modi's visit to China for SCO. Now see the tune change. Why? Idiot? No. That's deliberate.
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Hydra had eaten the American churan quite well. He actually thought Americans would not use their leverage and we will be positioned like Japan or Germany. Not understanding that Japan and Germany are conquered nations with no sovereignity. That situation still has not changed. Only the Russians left Berlin after the breakup of the Berlin Wall. The Americans are still there.

Brother was also pro-amreeki weapons just like me. The problem was he was looking at them as a one stop solution when in fact the Amreekis can only fulfill part of our defence solution. Hydra Ji's heart was in the right place but he did not truly understand that amreeki weapons were not a one stop solution. If that were the case the Ukrainians would have taken back Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea. Half of the Nato weapon systems faced failure in the initial months of the war itself. NATO weapons are meant for a short high tech war. They can't fight a long attritional war which we will have to fight in the end. Western weapons are offensive doctrinally they can't do homeland defence.
The Americans aren't facing any real military power on their borders. Neither they have a geography that forces them to fight in hostile terrain.
Venezuela was a cakewalk because they have no military capabilities. They had like a squadron of su-30mk2 as their airforce and s-300's to defend against american anti-air along with their internal command all compromised by the CIA-NSA. Apart from that they fought small militias in Syria and trained Ukrainians(that was done by the Canadians)
All in air superiority conditions. Whereas we are facing Pakistanis who are quite adept at using Nato hardware along with Cheeni nu-tech. Then we have Cheenis. Both nuclear armed. We are in a Mexican stand-off situation and amreeki weapons will only solve part of the equation. Hydra ji forgets the word of Superjoo Henry Kissinger
 
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Hydra said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2009654165933592836
We need US on our side because of this.
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This problem is only solved by us mass producing tejas mk1,mk2, Rafales, f-16 blk70-72, f-15EX and su-57.
That's the only way.
jetray said:
Right now we need economic security and US is out to destroy us economically. China is a manageable threat and also a rational actor. US on the other hand is a anglo-saxon power which is thousands of miles away who has infamous reputation for use and throw.

Once we grow to be a bigger economy we can tackle challenges on our own and decide our own allies/options. Right now we need balance china against US, that will reduce US influence and power to harm us.
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US and China are partners in crime. Please do not forget it was US-China-Pakistan that forced the breakup of USSR not US-Europe. Europe is just an extension of mainland America.
That axis has never died. Ever thought why China got slandered all the time in Western media but they kept taking American business and manufacturing.
This is all drama.
 
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GoI has gone to extraordinary lengths to accommodate US demands for market access (+oil and defence purchases) as part of the trade deal negotiations.

However, Lutnik's recent comments show the US wants to extract more concessions without giving much in return.

Before Trump 2.0, there was a broad understanding that India's purchases of Russian oil stabilized market prices and that India needed spares for its existing Russian military hardware while slowly transitioning to Western/local suppliers.

That has now been replaced by arrogance/brinkmanship. Had the situation been any better, I don't think GoI would've refused to buy the F-35 (ToT or not) because it would've given us a breather against the PLAAF. Better bet than Stryker, Javelin et al - stuff we don't even need.

GoI has been playing it cool all this while, while engaging diplomatically with US senators like Lindsay Graham.

But we need a different approach. Stalling for time till the US midterm elections isn't going to work. Modi needs to 'deal' with Trump one-on-one if that is what it takes.
 
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Speedster1 said:
GoI has gone to extraordinary lengths to accommodate US demands for market access (+oil and defence purchases) as part of the trade deal negotiations.

However, Lutnik's recent comments show the US wants to extract more concessions without giving much in return.

Before Trump 2.0, there was a broad understanding that India's purchases of Russian oil stabilized market prices and that India needed spares for its existing Russian military hardware while slowly transitioning to Western/local suppliers.

That has now been replaced by arrogance/brinkmanship. Had the situation been any better, I don't think GoI would've refused to buy the F-35 (ToT or not) because it would've given us a breather against the PLAAF. Better bet than Stryker, Javelin et al - stuff we don't even need.

GoI has been playing it cool all this while, while engaging diplomatically with US senators like Lindsay Graham.

But we need a different approach. Stalling for time till the US midterm elections isn't going to work. Modi needs to 'deal' with Trump one-on-one if that is what it takes.
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America is like a high end escort. You order her what to do and then pay. Trying to negotiate with good will is like trying to find real love with a golddigging Hore. It's going to fail. Treat it like what it is and they will listen.
 
Lolwa said:
America is like a high end escort. You order her what to do and then pay. Trying to negotiate with good will is like trying to find real love with a golddigging Hore. It's going to fail. Treat it like what it is and they will listen.
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China is your neighbor who r@ped your grand mother long back(1961 incident), and teased your wife many times ( numerous salami slicing incidents) and daughter ( 2020 incident). US is the guy siting in an office near to your town who loan you money and the done doing business with you and everyone.

Cosying with china & removing chines company ban while avoiding to attend international events where trump is showing his face is like you inviting the neighbor who r@ped your grand mother to a family function in your home so that you expect the guy in town will offended by not inviting him .
 
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Lolwa said:
America is like a high end escort. You order her what to do and then pay. Trying to negotiate with good will is like trying to find real love with a golddigging Hore. It's going to fail. Treat it like what it is and they will listen.
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At this point, this is a clash of personalities. The current POTUS has an ego the size of a football field. He thinks he can break the rules (not honor trade terms already agreed upon) and expect the world to 'make him happy'.

In comparison, Modi is more business-like. He'll make concessions as long as the other party is willing to reciprocate. But the threat of 500% tarrifs is too great to ignore.

GoI should ask for a bilateral meeting with Trump at a neutral venue (maybe at an int'l summit like G7/WEF Davos to roll out a BAFO (best and final offer) or plan for a complete decoupling from US investment and tech.
 
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Hydra said:
China is your neighbor who r@ped your grand mother long back(1961 incident), and teased your wife many times ( numerous salami slicing incidents) and daughter ( 2020 incident). US is the guy siting in an office near to your town who loan you money and the done doing business with you and everyone.

Cosying with china & removing chines company ban while avoiding to attend international events where trump is showing his face is like you inviting the neighbor who r@ped your grand mother to a family function in your home so that you expect the guy in town will offended by not inviting him .
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The Chinese are paid by the Americans. Infact the Americans loaned the Chinese their entire future. The Chinese have rare earth metals as a guarantee for Americans not 🍇ing them. We have their service industry. If we really wanted.
 
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Speedster1 said:
At this point, this is a clash of personalities. The current POTUS has an ego the size of a football field. He thinks he can break the rules (not honor trade terms already agreed upon) and expect the world to 'make him happy'.

In comparison, Modi is more business-like. He'll make concessions as long as the other party is willing to reciprocate. But the threat of 500% tarrifs is too great to ignore.

GoI should ask for a bilateral meeting with Trump at a neutral venue (maybe at an int'l summit like G7/WEF Davos to roll out a BAFO (best and final offer) or plan for a complete decoupling from US investment and tech.
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Trump is not not an idiot and his actions are not one offs. There is absolutely clear cut concerted attempt to push down India and prevent its rise. Trump is just following bidens policy and that is a long term one. Problem with India is that we tend to see things emotionally instead of rationally.
India got lulled into a sense of complacency that being china's counter balance will places it in a good position. But the truth is that US will never let any country be independent from its diktats. Trump just reminded that there is no substitute for strong military and big economy. US is more or less frustrated that India is neither allowing it to exploit its market nor fighting china like ukraine. So they have just decided to move to their next options.
 
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Lolwa said:
The Chinese are paid by the Americans. Infact the Americans loaned the Chinese their entire future. The Chinese have rare earth metals as a guarantee for Americans not 🍇ing them. We have their service industry. If we really wanted.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/2010919733571240323

people wont understand how evil china is. US can be managed, not the opportunistic chinese yellow snakes.
 
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jetray said:
Trump is not not an idiot and his actions are not one offs. There is absolutely clear cut concerted attempt to push down India and prevent its rise. Trump is just following bidens policy and that is a long term one. Problem with India is that we tend to see things emotionally instead of rationally.
India got lulled into a sense of complacency that being china's counter balance will places it in a good position. But the truth is that US will never let any country be independent from its diktats. Trump just reminded that there is no substitute for strong military and big economy. US is more or less frustrated that India is neither allowing it to exploit its market nor fighting china like ukraine. So they have just decided to move to their next options.
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Until our political/business elite continue to leverage defence deals/tech access for geopolitical alignment/business growth, they will keep on playing us at will.

In US senate hearings, top Biden era officials have said on record that defense deals were tools used to push US foriegn policy/economic agenda with India.

It is telling MSFT could get away with blocking cloud services to Nayara Energy at the drop of a hat with no consequences. We just don't have a credible domestic alternative.

The Chinese can afford to stand up to DC today because they leveraged market access for mandatory tech xfr for decades (and applied that same tech to mil applications by hook or by crook.)

US firms complied (even at the risk of penalties from the Dept of Commerce) as they were reluctant to let go of the Chinese market.

Our R&D investment remains a fraction of US and Chinese spending. We still think and behave like this is the 1990s where we can survive on outsourcing/contract mfg to create jobs and drive growth. That is our biggest vulnerability right now.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2011122138393039018
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“You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, only after they’ve tried everything else.”— Winston Churchill.

Things are not working as expected lets change the tack. But one thing is sure, unlike other cntries US policy is does not run for a day or two, it is typical anglo-saxon they have institutions which will carry forward the policy for centuries , good example is one against russia.

They will patch up on some stuff and display some sense of things being settled down. That is only temporary , once things become favorable they will retry again. If action against iran or venezuela succeeds then they will have more leeway to act against India. Probably they will try to wait out Modi. Once Modi leaves , rest of the ppl in BJP are just plain sellouts.

We need to craft our growth policy that has minimal US involvement. Need to discard this emotional unda funda wrt Indian origin tech CEO's promise of making India a tech destination , they are just americans leveraging low cost. Time to disengage and build our own eco-system. of services.
 
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@YoungWolf, @South block, @jmaxwell_

So you guys think that Asim Munir conferring one of Pakistan's highest Military Honours to General Michael Kurilla, Commander of U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) post our Ops was just a fluke or a coincidence for praising Pakistan's role in counter terrorisn, lol.

Our latest Ops just woke our military planners regarding true American intentions(and its dubious role in saving its stooge). 'Nuff said.
 
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