India - United States Relations

[Kiduva21]

Forever i thought was the H1B is an enemy of India, as it takes away the top most part of our talent pool and leave us with a huge brain drain. So i was happy that finally those big brains are coming back. so now we can make something big.


i worked in a project for a US based company which did all coding work to outsourcing ( India based coders). But they also had many Indians working on USA (Probably H1B) but all they did was manger tasks like "when will the task completed " , "How much time it will take" etc , truly excel sheet works. That can be done by any US guy too.


So yes Trump is part right that they got there not because have a skill that was missing in US but rather they are cheaper than a US manager. Which in turns make the Indian guy working a managerial staff an inferior to same level US guy.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Don't we already have some Government Linux Distros like BOSS and Maya? Although both are mostly used for Military..

My knowledge on this is very cursory . However from what I understand it's a continuous process of building up stacks , eliminating bugs , upgrading etc which requires an organisation to cater to these .

That's not the remit of our armed forces. Hence my previous statement - we require public private partnership with the armed forces preferably stewarding the entire project post which it can be taken over by some pvt sector entity to the public at large for monetization .

The ground work & the build up should start now as well as the transition by all government bodies & entities once deployment takes place. Hence the need for a deadline from anywhere between 5-10 years for the aforementioned entities to be completely free of foreign OS.

 

[Subgradewalker]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/foreign-trade/india-us-agree-not-to-seek-info-on-source-code/articleshow/124032491.c

My knowledge on this is very cursory . However from what I understand it's a continuous process of building up stacks , eliminating bugs , upgrading etc which requires an organisation to cater to these .

That's not the remit of our armed forces. Hence my previous statement - we require public private partnership with the armed forces preferably stewarding the entire project post which it can be taken over by some pvt sector entity to the public at large for monetization .

The ground work & the build up should start now as well as the transition by all government bodies & entities once deployment takes place. Hence the need for a deadline from anywhere between 5-10 years for the aforementioned entities to be completely free of foreign OS.

Right now it seems that govt is not keen on clashing with big tech. They are focusing on goods ( low-mid end) rather than services from big tech. A public-pvt partnership to indigenize most of the tech stack of India puts the govt at odds with them.
The Swadeshi pitch is also for products used en masse. But that's more the market for East Asian countries, less USA. That's what I have been able to glean so far. The last move I saw against US shadow network was rules and regulations tweak for FRCA license and NGOs under more scrutiny.

Hence, I am of the opinion that govt will expand the homegrown solutions to its own departments only. Leaving the wider private sector to market competition. For Now. Also let's the govt figure out genuine disruptor from just another TASL, ADANI, AMBANI types.

Govt can step in when really needed. Our indigenous DPI has shocked the financial observers around the world. That is a remarkable feat and the basis on which I have some confidence that technocrats and advisors to ministers are getting ready.

It remains to be seen what govt gets out of trade deal for India other than just liberalising the market and allowing investment.. that's just extraction if high end technology or huge investment with TOT in key sectors doesn't come up.

 

[Subgradewalker]

https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/its-not-india-that-shouldve-handled-trump-better-its-the-other-way-round-9321536

Kanwal sir. Ex diplomat.

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/economy/foreign-trade/india-us-agree-not-to-seek-info-on-source-code/articleshow/124032491.c

Right now it seems that govt is not keen on clashing with big tech. They are focusing on goods ( low-mid end) rather than services from big tech. A public-pvt partnership to indigenize most of the tech stack of India puts the govt at odds with them.
The Swadeshi pitch is also for products used en masse. But that's more the market for East Asian countries, less USA. That's what I have been able to glean so far. The last move I saw against US shadow network was rules and regulations tweak for FRCA license and NGOs under more scrutiny.

Hence, I am of the opinion that govt will expand the homegrown solutions to its own departments only. Leaving the wider private sector to market competition. For Now. Also let's the govt figure out genuine disruptor from just another TASL, ADANI, AMBANI types.

Govt can step in when really needed. Our indigenous DPI has shocked the financial observers around the world. That is a remarkable feat and the basis on which I have some confidence that technocrats and advisors to ministers are getting ready.

It remains to be seen what govt gets out of trade deal for India other than just liberalising the market and allowing investment.. that's just extraction if high end technology or huge investment with TOT in key sectors doesn't come up.

The pact was concluded because the US wanted guarantees we wouldn't squeeze their cos like the Chinese did by asking for technology transfer for participating in the Chinese market. That was anticipated as they wouldn't make the same mistake twice.
One just hopes as quid pro quo , when we signed the agreement , we insisted on local storage of data in servers located in India. That's the least we could do .

This is also because we're dependent on technology transfer vide iCET & other such protocols we've signed in domains like the entire SMC tech eco system , pharma , software , 5G & future technology in communications , space etc.

What's it got to do with our indigenous attempts at creating alternatives to western OS & SM apps ? You're conflating two different issues.

 

[Jaymax]

My knowledge on this is very cursory . However from what I understand it's a continuous process of building up stacks , eliminating bugs , upgrading etc which requires an organisation to cater to these .

That's not the remit of our armed forces. Hence my previous statement - we require public private partnership with the armed forces preferably stewarding the entire project post which it can be taken over by some pvt sector entity to the public at large for monetization .

The ground work & the build up should start now as well as the transition by all government bodies & entities once deployment takes place. Hence the need for a deadline from anywhere between 5-10 years for the aforementioned entities to be completely free of foreign OS.

The word open source - is the reason why India should not bother with using any linux based distro as the base on which to build its secure OS.

We dont need an org to build an OS, dump it on the user and forget it. DRDO will jump at the chance - maybe in 10 yrs release a GUI fronted Linux clone with multiple security holes and the entire code base available online for anyone to dissect.

We need an ecosystem - where the OS is built in India, adopted far and wide, supported by apps, peripherals, the works... This is the ideal state where there is organic growth that integrates the tech into daily lives. The sheer number of users will by itself give a mountain of usage data, which is critical to smooth the edges, improve usability and just give a better quality of life for the product.

Anyone who has tried to use an obscure peripheral in Linux or even a regular addon with driver issues knows the pain I am talking about.

Once the core kernel is mature a new fork can be developed purely for secure use. This is way long term growth has been sustained for such projects all over the world. Or we can just use Windows.

 

[Saaho]

Forever i thought was the H1B is an enemy of India, as it takes away the top most part of our talent pool and leave us with a huge brain drain. So i was happy that finally those big brains are coming back. so now we can make something big.

This is not really true. Top Indian talent goes out via students going to study outside. Next ones are those working for FAANG etc who go out via L1-X.

H-1B is mostly used by Wipro, TCS, Infosys, Cogni, Tech-M. Not the brightest of the bunch.

H-1B folks lost are very easy to replace. There is a reason US government has hit H-1B. It is mostly hitting India based companies.

 

[Jaymax]

This is not really true. Top Indian talent goes out via students going to study outside. Next ones are those working for FAANG etc who go out via L1-X.

H-1B is mostly used by Wipro, TCS, Infosys, Cogni, Tech-M. Not the brightest of the bunch.

H-1B folks lost are very easy to replace. There is a reason US government has hit H-1B. It is mostly hitting India based companies.

Mostly true with some deviations

Recently big tech has taken the lead in H1Bs. There are scores of Indians in big tech on $1million plus comp who are sitting there on H1Bs.
These are the people for whom Big tech will fight to get waivers.

The TCS, Wipro, Infosys etc. bunch is about to hit a brick wall running at max speed.

 

[Shan]

For the 2024 FY the fillings we're as follows:

Below is a summary table of the top 10 H‑1B sponsoring employers in 2024 by number of Labor Condition Applications (LCAs) filed/certified (a commonly cited proxy for “H‑1B visa applications”).

Rank	Employer (Legal Entity Name)	Approx. LCA Count (2024)*
1	Amazon.com Services LLC	14,261
2	Cognizant Technology Solutions US Corp	11,423
3	Ernst & Young US LLP	9,922
4	Tata Consultancy Services Limited	9,703
5	Microsoft Corporation	9,344
6	Google LLC	8,910
7	Meta Platforms Inc	5,958
8	Infosys Limited	5,907
9	HCL America Inc	3,978
10	Wal Mart Associates Inc	3,918

 

[Hydra]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/every-attempt-by-india-to-reset-china-ties-ended-in-betrayal-tibetan-leader-lobsang-sangay-9328557

For Those who going high over new Chinese hug to PM .
Telling again, Trump may be bad but USA is not, but Xi& China is evil.

 

[Subgradewalker]

The pact was concluded because the US wanted guarantees we wouldn't squeeze their cos like the Chinese did by asking for technology transfer for participating in the Chinese market. That was anticipated as they wouldn't make the same mistake twice.
One just hopes as quid pro quo , when we signed the agreement , we insisted on local storage of data in servers located in India. That's the least we could do .

This is also because we're dependent on technology transfer vide iCET & other such protocols we've signed in domains like the entire SMC tech eco system , pharma , software , 5G & future technology in communications , space etc.

What's it got to do with our indigenous attempts at creating alternatives to western OS & SM apps ? You're conflating two different issues.

Apologies but I believe there has been a misunderstanding. They were two different messages, posted back to back. They got clubbed together by the system.

The link of pact is unrelated to my reply and meant as a standalone post.

Rest of the reply only builds on previous points and my overall understanding. Look at them seperately.

 

[Subgradewalker]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/every-attempt-by-india-to-reset-china-ties-ended-in-betrayal-tibetan-leader-lobsang-sangay-9328557

For Those who going high over new Chinese hug to PM .
Telling again, Trump may be bad but USA is not, but Xi& China is evil.

No one's going high over it thinking that we have gotten closer to Chinese.
And it's naive of anyone thinks that Modi doesn't know this or has extended a hand for friendship. That was pure geopolitics at play. SM is only hyping it up for geo-politics vis a vis west.

 

[Saaho]

Recently big tech has taken the lead in H1Bs. There are scores of Indians in big tech on $1million plus comp who are sitting there on H1Bs.
These are the people for whom Big tech will fight to get waivers.

Those can be covered by O-1 mostly or by a combination of O-1 and L-1 or by placing them in a jurisdiction near usa (like Canada) or UK.

 

[RationalGuy]

Simple idea is to ban Twitter, Youtube, WhatsApp, Reddit etc in India and let Indian alternatives to take hold. Just like China did back in 2010s.

How. What if Google doesn't comply. Not like we have our own OS or even smartphone brand which can implement them as in China.

 

[Saaho]

How. What if Google doesn't comply. Not like we have our own OS or even smartphone brand which can implement them as in China.

Its quite simple.
1. Ban DNS resolution to google domains for gmail or twitter or reddit etc.
2. Ban traffic going to 8.8.8.8 for DNS (thats google owned DNS), infact intercept traffic going to google DNS servers and deny resolution
3. Filter traffic going to APIs of twitter, youtube media servers etc.
4. Perform deep packet inspection and deny access to google etc HTTP domains based on TLS certificate.

All of these can be done at ISP end. No need for OS or smartphone brand control.

 

[RationalGuy]

Its quite simple.
1. Ban DNS resolution to google domains for gmail or twitter or reddit etc.
2. Ban traffic going to 8.8.8.8 for DNS (thats google owned DNS), infact intercept traffic going to google DNS servers and deny resolution
3. Filter traffic going to APIs of twitter, youtube media servers etc.
4. Perform deep packet inspection and deny access to google etc HTTP domains based on TLS certificate.

All of these can be done at ISP end. No need for OS or smartphone brand control.

Before we do such a thing we need to have domestic alternatives in testing for a year at least to sort out bugs and refine the experience to match reddit, twitter, Google etc. Make the opposition party somehow come on board, make them form the first accounts or something. I think our companies can do it.

 

[Hydra]

Its quite simple.
1. Ban DNS resolution to google domains for gmail or twitter or reddit etc.
2. Ban traffic going to 8.8.8.8 for DNS (thats google owned DNS), infact intercept traffic going to google DNS servers and deny resolution
3. Filter traffic going to APIs of twitter, youtube media servers etc.
4. Perform deep packet inspection and deny access to google etc HTTP domains based on TLS certificate.

All of these can be done at ISP end. No need for OS or smartphone brand control.

Yeah,we can have Nepal like uprising here too. Are you guys are so dumb?

 

[RationalGuy]

Yeah,we can have Nepal like uprising here too. Are you guys are so dumb?

Yea not ha020eninf buddy. BJP IT cell and CONgress IT cell rely too much on twitter and youtube for the gov to e er ban it but suppose we do ban it, a Nepal like uprising is never happening here. Did Indians overthrow the gov when we banned Tik Tok? Lol.

 

[screambowl]

H-1B folks lost are very easy to replace. There is a reason US government has hit H-1B. It is mostly hitting India based companies.

Yeah true because most of the creamy layer from IITs goes for Masters and PhD in US and then only they are absorbed to lead a department in US based companies, they don't need H1B.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Before we do such a thing we need to have domestic alternatives in testing for a year at least to sort out bugs and refine the experience to match reddit, twitter, Google etc. Make the opposition party somehow come on board, make them form the first accounts or something. I think our companies can do it.

Which is the reason I've advocated graduation of steps beginning with development testing & unrolling it for the government & government controlled bodies before introduction to the rest of the country.

That takes time. In assuming at least a decade if the government is serious about it . And since timing is everything in politics or even geo politics this is the right time to strike.