the stealthy propeller at least.
And maybe the whole SSN Baraccuda (with or without the nuc reactor ? I don't know).
India Thermo Nuclear weapon was not a total success?
- Thread starter South block
- Start date
And maybe the whole SSN Baraccuda (with or without the nuc reactor ? I don't know).
Provide source for this info , not rumour mongering.....all I have heard so far is that France could provide India such & such things. Don't get me wrong here....I would love to see or say would want Indian SSN to be based on Barracuda rather than on Russian design any day
I'm very late to this discussion but @South block @Rajput Lion @D68 @Bon Plan and others, the real yields of Shakti 1 and Shakti 2 were discussed enormously well and in detail by this (I'm assuming American) scientist in a very old website. I'm attaching the link, you guys can read it: What Are the Real Yields of India's Tests?
Tldr, basically Shakti 2, our pure fission device, was 100% succesful and detonated with a yield of 12 kilotons. However, Shakti 2 was not totally successful, but it did detonated with a likely yield of 31-35 kilotons, which is below BARCs claim of 45 kilotons. The author believes that the primary stage of Shakti 1 performed correctly, but the secondary stage only detonated partially and gave 10-15 kilotons:
So our hydrogen bomb was NOT a "fizzle" like K Santhanam claims, it did detonate but not upto the desired level. The secondary stage did also detonated but did not provide the expected contribution to the explosion energy. The author thinks that India however can refine the design and indeed develop scaled up version of this device all the way up to 200 kilotons:
K Santhanam claims that the hydrogen test was a total fizzle and 20 kt of yield came from the Shakti 2 explosion, but evidence shown in the article i shared disprove this, and goes to show Shakti 1 exploded and did explode in a thermonuclear reaction, just that it's level was not upto what was claimed. A partial success imo. And a big one at that, UK a pioneering country in nuclear technology failed multiple times in making hydrogen bombs! They succeeded after multiple failed tests.
I want to remind you guys of 2 key things which people rabidly advocating for testing forget:
1.) Scaling from lower yields is 100% possible, the American W41 was a whopping 25 megatons but was never tested, it was a scaled up version of a 5 megaton weapons iirc. I know we are not America but that was done in 1950s, today India has supercomputers of great complexity, programms to simulate explosions AND data from Shakti tests. It's not implausible to think we can simulate and design 2 stage thermonuclear weapons.
2.) Israel only tested like 1-2 times and has never tested its thermonuclear design and thought that computer simulations are enough. Now some of you may think US would freely give a thermonuclear design to them but imo that's highly unlikely. Thermonuclear weapon is the ultimate weapon of war which is crown jewel of nuclear technology, America didnt even give Israel atom bomb and was against it making it, it tried to stop its Dimon plant construction. So there's no reason to think Israel would get H bomb level of tech from somewhere else.
3.) India most definitely has boosted fission capability, and can boost fission warheads to near or beyond 100 kilotons if needed, which is also an extremely potent deterrent.
Tldr, basically Shakti 2, our pure fission device, was 100% succesful and detonated with a yield of 12 kilotons. However, Shakti 2 was not totally successful, but it did detonated with a likely yield of 31-35 kilotons, which is below BARCs claim of 45 kilotons. The author believes that the primary stage of Shakti 1 performed correctly, but the secondary stage only detonated partially and gave 10-15 kilotons:
So our hydrogen bomb was NOT a "fizzle" like K Santhanam claims, it did detonate but not upto the desired level. The secondary stage did also detonated but did not provide the expected contribution to the explosion energy. The author thinks that India however can refine the design and indeed develop scaled up version of this device all the way up to 200 kilotons:
K Santhanam claims that the hydrogen test was a total fizzle and 20 kt of yield came from the Shakti 2 explosion, but evidence shown in the article i shared disprove this, and goes to show Shakti 1 exploded and did explode in a thermonuclear reaction, just that it's level was not upto what was claimed. A partial success imo. And a big one at that, UK a pioneering country in nuclear technology failed multiple times in making hydrogen bombs! They succeeded after multiple failed tests.
I want to remind you guys of 2 key things which people rabidly advocating for testing forget:
1.) Scaling from lower yields is 100% possible, the American W41 was a whopping 25 megatons but was never tested, it was a scaled up version of a 5 megaton weapons iirc. I know we are not America but that was done in 1950s, today India has supercomputers of great complexity, programms to simulate explosions AND data from Shakti tests. It's not implausible to think we can simulate and design 2 stage thermonuclear weapons.
2.) Israel only tested like 1-2 times and has never tested its thermonuclear design and thought that computer simulations are enough. Now some of you may think US would freely give a thermonuclear design to them but imo that's highly unlikely. Thermonuclear weapon is the ultimate weapon of war which is crown jewel of nuclear technology, America didnt even give Israel atom bomb and was against it making it, it tried to stop its Dimon plant construction. So there's no reason to think Israel would get H bomb level of tech from somewhere else.
3.) India most definitely has boosted fission capability, and can boost fission warheads to near or beyond 100 kilotons if needed, which is also an extremely potent deterrent.
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Israel has only few data from first French test and Vela incident, probably even lower data than India, they said computer simulations are enough. And before you say "but Amreeka will give them data" LOL. Unlikely. US never really wanted a nuclear Israel.
Sir where do you want to test 250 kiloton warhead? If we test it in Pokhran the people in Khelotai village 5 km away will get totally fried. Test shaft would need to be like 400 meters deep. Maybe we can do it but it's difficult. Even for 200 meter shaft it took them years to get it ready, they would dig and then find water and then have ro re dig elsewhere. It's not like we have a desolate mountain range where we can drill tunnels and test. Probably in Andaman we can test but that would cause fallout, we would need to drill an uninhabited island first but that would involve ships, people and equipment surely to alert onlooking satellites.Even North Korea has better designed & tested High Yield Nuclear Device than us
North Korea exploded a higher yield weapon than Israel ever has you're gonna day their deterrent is better than Israel? Or Pakistan?
Without a credible real world test.....all yield claims regarding thermonuclear device are just that hot air........ Good luck if survival of a billion + pop rely on questionable computer simulations with limited real world nuclear weapon test data & in our case a single fizzle device.
If even with the current evidence you still think it was a total fizzle, I have nothing more to say. I hope you read what I have written in more detail and go over the facts in the link I sent.
With this statement you essentially discount Israel's nuclear arsenal as well which has untested thermonuclear weapons.
Some people mentioned North Korea, saying that its nuclear deterrence level is very low
This is incorrect. North Korea currently has five ICBMs: Hwasong-19, Hwasong-18, and Hwasong-17，
According to public information from South Korea's Defense Intelligence Agency, the largest of these missiles has a range of 15,000 KM
This is incorrect. North Korea currently has five ICBMs: Hwasong-19, Hwasong-18, and Hwasong-17，
According to public information from South Korea's Defense Intelligence Agency, the largest of these missiles has a range of 15,000 KM
I said it's inferior to Israel and India, not low. Israel and India are nuclear triad powers and can produce many more nuclear weapons than North Korea. North Korea is still not a triad power, it's sea leg is very primitive and weak, likely not operational. Their Pukuksong SLBM poses no threat to the US, and they will not get a nuclear submarine for a while. As for North Korean ICBM, all I see are more targets for American GMB and SM3 and SM6. Not to mention South Korean BMD systems which can take them down when they start their trajectory. So, while North Korea has a deterent, its way inferior to the nuclear capability of Israel and India by a wide margin.
If you think North Korea can threaten the US with 60-70 nukes, then you're even more delusional than I thought.
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I think you need to update your knowledge. North Korea already has 50 nuclear warheads and has the raw materials to manufacture 80 more.
North Korea has also launched the Kim Jun Ok Hero ballistic missile submarine,
According to Japanese observations, the range of its PukuKong-3 missile reaches 1,900 km, which is enough to cover Japan and Guam.
It is not so easy to guess whether the bomb was a dud and if so how it was a dud. The fundamental process that is publicly known for constructing a thermonuclear warhead is called a Teller-Ulam design, which incorporates a series of chained fission and fusion reactions extending the time of containment and therefore mass conversion before the bomb blows itself apart and is no longer critical. However, these "extensions" occur for nanoseconds and there are publicly theorized techniques where a bomb's yield can be varied based on a settings (don't ask me to explain how here). So if the bomb yielded only 30kt against a desired yield of 45kt, that is not a complete failure.
It indicates that the primary had managed to ignite the secondary, which means that an effective T-U design was engineered, perhaps not perfectly but they must have gotten most of right. Finally many international sources actually agree with BARC that the seismological data agrees with the official Indian claims. Either way, whatever may be the truth, I am confident that they would have been able to fix the issues by now if any in the intervening years.
It indicates that the primary had managed to ignite the secondary, which means that an effective T-U design was engineered, perhaps not perfectly but they must have gotten most of right. Finally many international sources actually agree with BARC that the seismological data agrees with the official Indian claims. Either way, whatever may be the truth, I am confident that they would have been able to fix the issues by now if any in the intervening years.
You think that Israeli nukes are top notch?
France used to blame germany for making soko to design its own sub without further assistance from west. So dont expect any meaningful tech transfer from france.
Do you have evidence to suggest the contrary? Provide links and your conclusion if you do. Do not share RUMINT. The more acceptable these reports or stats are the more you'll be able to convince folks here.
Over open ocean.
First do you have any credible evidence that Israel have nukes? AFAIK Israel never admitted, only rumors by west. FYI, west said Saddam have wbm till 2003
North Korean subs are very noisy and wont survive against US, Korean and Japanese P8I Posiedon and ASW assets and that 50 warhead count is even less than what I thought it was lol. Its funny you think Indian missiles like K4, Agni 5 pose no threat to China while North Koreas pitiful delivery systems can pose a threat to Japan and US whose BMD system is far more complex and capable than China's. North Koreas nuclear arsenal poses no real threat to the US. It is 100% a threat to South Korea.
I don't and neither do you. You're engaged in a pointless exchange which will lead nowhere. All the things being discussed are speculations and RUMINT which are based on either single entity or extrapolation based on a baseline.
Dear Hydra, as always, misinformed. Search about Mordecai Vananu. He was an Israeli engineer who worked on the Dimona plant. He leaked evidence that 100% proves Israel has nukes and even revealed they made hydrogen bomb designs. And also read about Vela incident which everyone thinks was covert Israeli nuclear test. Israel 100% has nukes.
So some people think that for 27 years after 1998 tests , we have not made any progress in the design of our Nukes
Why are such people even born
Why are such people even born
Leave him be. He is going down a spiral hole. As per some individuals here, we'll fold up in any war in a week.
A single source citation based on a leak is being heralded as the end times of the Indian Nuclear Weapons program.So some people think that for 27 years after 1998 tests , we have not made any progress in the design of our Nukes
Why are such people even born