India eyes 6th generation FCAS, looks at tying up with France for possible collaboration

YoungWolf said:
My vote is on SCAF. The train for GCAP left the station quite a few years ago.

SCAF Pros: Excellent relations with France, improving with Germany and stable with the Spain. The Airbus proposal of 2 different airframes (heavyweight, long-range fighter for DE and ES, middle-weight carrier & n-capable for FR) works in our favour, should it come to pass. The heavyweight can be a perfect replacement for Su-30 2040+, and the middle-weight will spearhead the carrier combat aviation (& n-delivery, if AMCA MK2 isn't already doing it by then). We can contribute towards the development of VLO CCAs, MUM-T, radar & EW suite, combat cloud, computing and fibre-optic architecture for flight n sensor fusion. And of course, scale. Indian participation should complement the existing trilateral partnership, and not come at the cost of German n Spanish participation.

SCAF Cons: France wants around 80% of workshare and overall over the entire project for less than 40% of R&D cost-split. India won't bite that, having learned our lessons from the FGFA saga. If India's participation comes at the cost of the Germans n Spanish, then we'll be bearing 50% of R&D with around ~20% of workshare, which is the last thing the Indian side wants, an FGFA redux.

GCAP Pros: Smooth sailing programme (for now at least), comes online earlier (2035-40 timeframe), will make for an excellent stop-gap 6th gen purchase 10-15years from now, if the IAF finds itself in that situation. We offer the scale which reduces the costs drastically for all involved parties. UK would definitely love that, haha.

GCAP Cons: Smooth sailing programme (so far), meaning there's isn't much of a workshare pie left for us. Whatever we can contribute towards, the current trio can do it too. With Canada joining as an observer (can't rule out a full-blown participation) and Poland next in line, it doesn't leave much, if any, room for us. Too many chefs spoil the broth.
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The two-airframe design is definitely a plus for SCAF in terms of airframe workshare for India.

My bet is on the French airframe due to potential IN involvement and the nuclear strike role versus Germany's heavier Typhoon-esque design. We may get limited to no involvement in avionics though, too many cooks already. But yeah, good point, I didn't think of India working on the airframe with the French while the Germans and Spaniards do their own thing. This meets my expectation of limited financial contribution and appropriate workshare within the limits of our budget without affecting ADA's next gen.

The real fruit would be if AMCA's engine design can be updated to 6th gen right off the bat and use that to power the airframe we choose. This way we get as many as 4 airframes on a common engine.

It's unclear why the French do not want the two-airframe design though. My guess is if the German program is delayed, they may place hurdles on the French program due to the shared avionics. The financial burden of the French airframe and engine will be much larger for France to bear alone, both R&D and production scale (although that's where India comes in). And you have a third European export competitor (although India's participation may make the French version far more enticing for export.). But if the IAF chooses the German design, it gets way worse for the French in every scenario imaginable.

India will have to wait until 2045 to get SCAF relative to GCAP. That's about the only advantage I can think of for GCAP.

Anyway, good catch.
 
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frankly i dont know if India can even afford to become part of the FCAS program. We have to finance the rafale, the AMCA, the tejas mk1a, the tejas mk2 and the sukhoi upgrade. This is excluding the MTA or MALE drones or any other contract.

The rafale is the major sticking issue here with a 32 B USD deal. If not for the rafale we could use he same money for FCAS. the others are all indigenous deals which should be much cheaper than the rafale deal.
 
lmaoxd said:

frankly i dont know if India can even afford to become part of the FCAS program. We have to finance the rafale, the AMCA, the tejas mk1a, the tejas mk2 and the sukhoi upgrade. This is excluding the MTA or MALE drones or any other contract.

The rafale is the major sticking issue here with a 32 B USD deal. If not for the rafale we could use he same money for FCAS. the others are all indigenous deals which should be much cheaper than the rafale deal.
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No need to be part of GCAP or FCAS.

All this 6th gen is brain rot. If needed, we can buy GCAP.

Fund MK2, AMCA, Aero engines.
 
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