How did F404 and F414 ever get approved for procurement?

[Saaho]

It should be obvious.

How can ANYONE trust ANYTHING coming from USA in India?
How did GE engines got approved for frontline domestic fighter jets in India AT ALL? Not once but TWICE!!

Were the oh so conservative MoD making pickles?


This should be single biggest inquiry in India.

 

[Kiduva21]

In 2011 i honestly believed that we will pick Typhoon or Rafale for MMRCA,
if typhoon selected will should be able to redesign the LCA to use EJ200 which would help IAF with common engine reduced burden of multiple engine.
If Rafale is selected we have to get french help to get french help to upgrade Kaveri to reach maturity and thrust levels required by LCA
Rafale got selected , so obviously i expected a french contract to upgrade the Kaveri
But
UPA govt simply removed Kaveri from LCA program and de funded it.
UPA did not sign any deal with french
first deal for Rafale came 5 years after selection and no mention for kaveri upgrade

There must be a huge corruption similar to Currency printing plates for 1000 rupees shown in movie Dhuranthar


@Saaho what is you opinion on the latest submarine deal with Germany, They already once put us under sanctions for military/ dual use tech between 1998 to 2023

 

[Barcid]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

All you are proving by starting threads like this is you have started reading news maybe about a year back and have no understanding of how steadily US India relations were built over decades.

US gave us waiver for nuclear deal, gave us CAATSA waiver, gave waiver to Chahbahar port. We have also imported lot of important defence equipment from US such as P8I, C17, M777, Apache etc.

US formed quad with a couple of countries to encircle china.

It is only after trump came in that India US relations have started going down.

And before I read another stupid post about going for Russian engines, let me tell you, Russians are no better. Checkout how they fleeced us on INS Vikramaditya, how they tried to cheat us on PAKFA. Check the historical availablity rate of Su30 MKI and current availability rate of Mig27K.

At least American equipment is still world class. Russian equipment is so bad no one wants to buy it and they basically try to fund new versions of their equipment using Indian money.

By the way, most navy ships use American engines too. Works like a charm. Maybe you want to dismantle all of them too since you don't trust anything coming from USA

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

All you are proving by starting threads like this is you have started reading news maybe about a year back and have no understanding of how steadily US India relations were built over decades.

US gave us waiver for nuclear deal, gave us CAATSA waiver, gave waiver to Chahbahar port. We have also imported lot of important defence equipment from US such as P8I, C17, M777, Apache etc.

US formed quad with a couple of countries to encircle china.

It is only after trump came in that India US relations have started going down.

And before I read another stupid post about going for Russian engines, let me tell you, Russians are no better. Checkout how they fleeced us on INS Vikramaditya, how they tried to cheat us on PAKFA. Check the historical availablity rate of Su30 MKI and current availability rate of Mig27K.

At least American equipment is still world class. Russian equipment is so bad no one wants to buy it and they basically try to fund new versions of their equipment using Indian money.

By the way, most navy ships use American engines too. Works like a charm. Maybe you want to dismantle all of them too since you don't trust anything coming from USA

The aircraft carrier Vikramaditya and the MiG-29K were an incredibly good deal, the best deal in history, and there will never be another one like it.
When the Indians got the Su-30MKI and AL-31FP, the Chinese didn’t even know what they were doing.
What is the US counterpart to the MiG-29K? The "Super Green-bottle Fly"—the F/A-18E/F—the world's most capable subsonic fighter. Oh, right—besides being subsonic, it also requires a catapult, and costs three to four times as much as the MiG-29K.
By the way, Malaysia has that piece of junk too—the F/A-18C/D—so they dutifully bought the Su-30MKM to handle the tasks that the lousy American hardware couldn't manage.
The US probably wouldn't sell you an aircraft carrier anyway.
But you already got the Project 971 nuclear submarine and the Tu-142, didn't you? Where else could you get those from—the world's second-ranked power? Not to mention the BrahMos and BrahMos-II.
You certainly know how to pick and choose exactly what you want.

C-17 is far inferior to the Il-476, As a strategic transport aircraft, the most critical metric is the takeoff runway length. The C-17 actually requires a takeoff roll distance on par with the An-124 (75tons-over 2,300 m, as for AN-124-120tons-2400m far exceeding the Il-476's 60tons-1,500 m+), yet its payload is only 60% of the An-124's. And it’s sold at a higher price than the An-124 — what’s the logic behind that?
M777 put on a completely useless show in Ukraine,
Apache isn’t even fit to carry the shoes of the Mi-28 or Ka-52.

On what level is American equipment advanced?

Most warships use American engines,
and then the Americans themselves happily go and buy Rolls-Royce MT30 engines.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

All you are proving by starting threads like this is you have started reading news maybe about a year back and have no understanding of how steadily US India relations were built over decades.

US gave us waiver for nuclear deal, gave us CAATSA waiver, gave waiver to Chahbahar port. We have also imported lot of important defence equipment from US such as P8I, C17, M777, Apache etc.

US formed quad with a couple of countries to encircle china.

It is only after trump came in that India US relations have started going down.

And before I read another stupid post about going for Russian engines, let me tell you, Russians are no better. Checkout how they fleeced us on INS Vikramaditya, how they tried to cheat us on PAKFA. Check the historical availablity rate of Su30 MKI and current availability rate of Mig27K.

At least American equipment is still world class. Russian equipment is so bad no one wants to buy it and they basically try to fund new versions of their equipment using Indian money.

By the way, most navy ships use American engines too. Works like a charm. Maybe you want to dismantle all of them too since you don't trust anything coming from USA

Not to mention the T-72s and T-90s—do you really expect the M1 to stand a chance against them? After all, they slice through the Type 99A like a hot knife through butter.

If the Russians were willing to sell these items to China—such as the production lines for T-72/90s, V-84 engines, and BMP-2s, as well as the Project 971 nuclear submarine, Tu-95/142, Oniks/BrahMos, BrahMos-II, Su-30MKI, and MiG-29K—the Chinese would be grinning in their sleep. In the eyes of the Chinese, India always insists on buying the "most expensive" equipment rather than the "best."

 

[Optimist]

What is the US counterpart to the MiG-29K? The "Super Green-bottle Fly"—the F/A-18E/F—the world's most capable subsonic fighter. Oh, right—besides being subsonic, it also requires a catapult, and costs three to four times as much as the MiG-29K.
By the way, Malaysia has that piece of junk too—the F/A-18C/D—so they dutifully bought the Su-30MKM to handle the tasks that the lousy American hardware couldn't manage.

Confidently wrong, is my favourite kind of wrong, Do you feel better?

The E/F is supersonic and I've said why India should get the Rafale, even though the Super Hornet is the better aircraft, It also failed the bring-back in Indian testing, it was too heavy for the arrested landing system, which the lighter Rafale passed

The Malaysian FA-18cd is ready for retirement, but it had the Helmet mounted cueing APG-73 radar and AIM 9X and AIM-120C-7, Which is pretty good,and we could debate that to the MKM, It outperforms the R-77 and the longer R-27ER1 is radar guided, not a good thing and a similar range to the C7

They would be eligible for the USMC C/D upgrade that Canada is getting, The GaN-APG-79v4 and the AIM-C8/D, Which would certainly outperform the MKM radar and missiles

 

[Amer Mahajane]

Point is, you choose an American engine, fine. You don't order in bulk or setup a tot based domestic production? That's not fine. We hoped that we were special to them. Which we are not. It is dawning today on defence babudom today that we are only so special only in our own eyes. For everything and everyone else, we are a cash cow.

We need a guiding force in Indian defence. Like parikkar could have been. Like Doval transformed Indian intelligence setup and doctrine. A visionary.

 

[Barcid]

The aircraft carrier Vikramaditya and the MiG-29K were an incredibly good deal, the best deal in history, and there will never be another one like it.
When the Indians got the Su-30MKI and AL-31FP, the Chinese didn’t even know what they were doing.
What is the US counterpart to the MiG-29K? The "Super Green-bottle Fly"—the F/A-18E/F—the world's most capable subsonic fighter. Oh, right—besides being subsonic, it also requires a catapult, and costs three to four times as much as the MiG-29K.
By the way, Malaysia has that piece of junk too—the F/A-18C/D—so they dutifully bought the Su-30MKM to handle the tasks that the lousy American hardware couldn't manage.
The US probably wouldn't sell you an aircraft carrier anyway.
But you already got the Project 971 nuclear submarine and the Tu-142, didn't you? Where else could you get those from—the world's second-ranked power? Not to mention the BrahMos and BrahMos-II.
You certainly know how to pick and choose exactly what you want.

C-17 is far inferior to the Il-476, As a strategic transport aircraft, the most critical metric is the takeoff runway length. The C-17 actually requires a takeoff roll distance on par with the An-124 (75tons-over 2,300 m, as for AN-124-120tons-2400m far exceeding the Il-476's 60tons-1,500 m+), yet its payload is only 60% of the An-124's. And it’s sold at a higher price than the An-124 — what’s the logic behind that?
M777 put on a completely useless show in Ukraine,
Apache isn’t even fit to carry the shoes of the Mi-28 or Ka-52.

On what level is American equipment advanced?

Most warships use American engines,
and then the Americans themselves happily go and buy Rolls-Royce MT30 engines.

Haha please tell these fairy tales to your children.

Its on record that Russia increased the price of ship from 800 million to 2.9 billion along with multi year delays. It has had multiple fires on it both in Russia and in india in which multiple people have died.


As for Mig29K, the lesser said the better. Out of 45 ordered, 5 have crashed already. 1 even crashed during testing in Russia itself.

The availability of Mig29K has been so bad that IN is being forced to replace them with Rafales after barely 20 years of service.

We indians know exactly how much we have suffered due to these two equipment.

 

[SergeantVoid]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

All you are proving by starting threads like this is you have started reading news maybe about a year back and have no understanding of how steadily US India relations were built over decades.

US gave us waiver for nuclear deal, gave us CAATSA waiver, gave waiver to Chahbahar port. We have also imported lot of important defence equipment from US such as P8I, C17, M777, Apache etc.

US formed quad with a couple of countries to encircle china.

It is only after trump came in that India US relations have started going down.

And before I read another stupid post about going for Russian engines, let me tell you, Russians are no better. Checkout how they fleeced us on INS Vikramaditya, how they tried to cheat us on PAKFA. Check the historical availablity rate of Su30 MKI and current availability rate of Mig27K.

At least American equipment is still world class. Russian equipment is so bad no one wants to buy it and they basically try to fund new versions of their equipment using Indian money.

By the way, most navy ships use American engines too. Works like a charm. Maybe you want to dismantle all of them too since you don't trust anything coming from USA

Why go here or there you could had easily made it possibel to build a 4th gen kaveri engine if funded enough and all the required test facility woukd had been here in INDIA.
After developing a 4th gen engine you could had modified it according to your need I'm still amazed how they pulled of KDE with that budget and lack of testing facility here. 'Aatmanirbhar bharat' only sounds good in rallies and speeches for dehati audience who trust blindily without verifying it calling PULS -SURYASTRA won't make it indigenous product . No govt ever focused on imp of self reliance of Engine tech and now we are here begging USA to give engine so that projects like Tejas Mk2 and AMCA see the sky

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

The E/F is supersonic and I've said why India should get the Rafale, even though the Super Hornet is the better aircraft, It also failed the bring-back in Indian testing, it was too heavy for the arrested landing system, which the lighter Rafale passed

Oh right, my bad.

The F/A-18E/F is indeed 'supersonic'—if you consider taking a whopping 260 seconds to break the sound barrier and crawl to Mach 1.3 'supersonic.' Meanwhile, a MiG-29 pulls it off in 30 seconds, and an F/A-18C/D takes 42. an F-16 takes less than 24. Please accept my most sincere, heartfelt apologies.

Moreover, the F-18C holds the "distinguished" record of being shot down by a lone MiG-25 while under the escort of four F-14s and the support of an E-3 AWACS, with the MiG-25 returning unscathed.

Haha please tell these fairy tales to your children.


As for Mig29K, the lesser said the better. Out of 45 ordered, 5 have crashed already. 1 even crashed during testing in Russia itself.

Canada: Equipped with approximately 138 aircraft; since entering service, about 20–22 have crashed due to causes such as collisions with terrain, spatial disorientation, and engine failure.
Spain: A total of 72 aircraft, with 10–12 lost in crashes.

I would certainly welcome you to apply your evaluation method using a consistent standard.

The availability of Mig29K has been so bad that IN is being forced to replace them with Rafales after barely 20 years of service.

F/A-18C initial delivery: 1987;
F/A-18E initial delivery: 1999.
That is to say, according to your logic, the F-18C was replaced by the F-18E after only 13 years of service,
which shows that its technological maturity is extremely low, far below that of the MiG-29K.

I’d also like to ask how the Rafale plans to take off from a carrier that lacks a catapult, relying on its puny engines—just out of curiosity.

It has had multiple fires on it both in Russia and in india in which multiple people have died.

We indians know exactly how much we have suffered due to these two equipment.

I have heard that the Project 971 nuclear submarine leased by the Indian Navy suffered irreparable damage—as did the Project 877/636 vessels.
Was this damage caused by quality issues inherent in the equipment?
Why haven't such incidents occurred in other countries?

Furthermore, following your logic, could the *USS Enterprise* accident—which resulted in 28 deaths, the loss of 15 aircraft, and 314 injuries—also be attributed to poor quality?
And could the loss of over 600 F-16s out of the 4,000 that have entered service likewise be classified as a result of poor quality?

 

[Barcid]

Canada: Equipped with approximately 138 aircraft; since entering service, about 20–22 have crashed due to causes such as collisions with terrain, spatial disorientation, and engine failure.
Spain: A total of 72 aircraft, with 10–12 lost in crashes.

I would certainly welcome you to apply your evaluation method using a consistent standard.

F/A-18C initial delivery: 1987;
F/A-18E initial delivery: 1999.
That is to say, according to your logic, the F-18C was replaced by the F-18E after only 13 years of service,
which shows that its technological maturity is extremely low, far below that of the MiG-29K, despite seeing just 4 days of war in 14 years.

I’d also like to ask how the Rafale plans to take off from a carrier that lacks a catapult, relying on its puny engines—just out of curiosity.

Haha, more fairy tales. You ask me to apply the same evalutation method. Fine, lets do that

F18s have been serving Canada since 1980s. In 40 years, 15% have been lost, despite Canada using them in actual wars.
Mig29Ks have been serving IN since 2012. In 14 years, already 11% have lost.
Whose loss rate is greater?

And what kind of idiot someone has to be to think that F18E replaced F18C. It is well known F18E replaced the F14, and both F18C and F18E serve on the carriers together. F18Cs are being replaced by F35Cs.

Both Rafale and F18SH have already demonstrated their capability to take off from carriers without catapults. Thats why Navy ordered them. Indian navy is not stupid like russian engineers. Feel free to use Google and look it up instead of showing you ignorance here. Every word that comes out of your mouth has been proven to be a lie.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Haha, more fairy tales. You ask me to apply the same evalutation method. Fine, lets do that

F18s have been serving Canada since 1980s. In 40 years, 15% have been lost.
Mig29Ks have been serving IN since 2012. In 14 years, already 11% have lost.
Whose loss rate is greater?

And what kind of idiot someone has to be to think that F18E replaced F18C. It is well known F18E replaced the F14, and both F18C and F18E serve on the carriers together. F18Cs are being replaced by F35Cs.

Both Rafale and F18SH have already demonstrated their capability to take off from carriers without catapults. Thats why Navy ordered them. Indian navy is not stupid like russian engineers. Feel free to use Google and look it up instead of showing you ignorance here. Every word that comes out of your mouth has been proven to be a lie.

EDIT: Good to see that you had no comeback for the price escalation and multiple accidents on INS Vikramaditya in a short duration.

Getting all worked up is bad for your health.
I'm perfectly willing to accept your version of things —
the F/A-18E/F entered service in 1999,
then was replaced by the F-35C in 2019,
pretty much the same story as the MiG-29K (just 20 years).


The only difference is that the F-35C can actually take off from carriers that operate the F-18E, whereas the Rafale can replace a ski-jump-launched MiG-29K... in its wildest dreams.


As for the elementary school math at the beginning, I couldn't even be bothered to look at it.

No matter how expensive the INS Vikramaditya is, it still wouldn't exceed half the cost of the Rafale project.

So the F-18E "replaced" the F-14's supersonic interception capability — the one designed to take down "Kingfish"-class supersonic heavy anti-ship missiles — along with the AIM-54 Phoenix, with an engine that wheezes its way to Mach 1.3 in 260 seconds, a pathetic combat radius, and those short, skinny AIM-120s.
So why did the US Navy even bother with the NATF program then?
------------Because they had no idea their arsenal already contained something called the "Super Blowfly" — the F/A-18E/F!

 

[Barcid]

Getting all worked up is bad for your health.
I'm perfectly willing to accept your version of things —
the F/A-18E/F entered service in 1999,
then was replaced by the F-35C in 2019,
pretty much the same story as the MiG-29K (just 20 years).


The only difference is that the F-35C can actually take off from carriers that operate the F-18E, whereas the Rafale can replace a ski-jump-launched MiG-29K... in its wildest dreams.


As for the elementary school math at the beginning, I couldn't even be bothered to look at it.



So the F-18E "replaced" the F-14's supersonic interception capability — the one designed to take down "Kingfish"-class supersonic heavy anti-ship missiles — along with the AIM-54 Phoenix, with an engine that wheezes its way to Mach 1.3 in 260 seconds, a pathetic combat radius, and those short, skinny AIM-120s.
So why did the US Navy even bother with the NATF program then?

Clear who is getting worked up.

Where did I write that F18E/F is getting replaced by F35? Can't even read eh?

Of course you can't look at elementary level math as it is enough to prove just how bad Mig29K is.

Maybe in your reality Rafale and F18SH can't take off from ski jumped carriers. Really should get your brain checked.

For IN and others who are actually sane, have already seen Rafale's and SH takeoffs from ski jumps:

Mega deal in mind, Rafale M takes off from Navy’s Goa test range, Boeing F/A 18 next

The marine version of the French fighter jet performed a ski-jump —a crucial take-off capability — to demonstrate its ability to operate from Indian aircraft carriers.

theprint.in

Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet Successfully Completes Operational Demonstrations in India

www.boeing.co.in

And now by trying to bring NATF program you are just trying to switch topics as your lies have been exposed.

I have heard that the Project 971 nuclear submarine leased by the Indian Navy suffered irreparable damage—as did the Project 877/636 vessels.
Was this damage caused by quality issues inherent in the equipment?
Why haven't such incidents occurred in other countries?

Furthermore, following your logic, could the *USS Enterprise* accident—which resulted in 28 deaths, the loss of 15 aircraft, and 314 injuries—also be attributed to poor quality?
And could the loss of over 600 F-16s out of the 4,000 that have entered service likewise be classified as a result of poor quality?
View attachment 52740

Those accidents were in active service.

But INS Vikramaditya is so bad that it managed to suffer accidents in sea trials itself.

Faulty boilers caused Indian aircraft carrier's trial snags

Sea trials of an Indian Navy aircraft carrier refitted at a Russian shipyard were unsuccessful due to design failures in the vessel's boilers, a former Russian official has said.

www.deccanherald.com

You won't manage to wriggle out your way by lying. We Indians have full history of Russian equipment.

 

[Optimist]

Hyper, 99% of what you say is wrong but I admire the persistence of not using google

 

[batman]

The aircraft carrier Vikramaditya and the MiG-29K were an incredibly good deal, the best deal in history, and there will never be another one like it.
When the Indians got the Su-30MKI and AL-31FP, the Chinese didn’t even know what they were doing.
What is the US counterpart to the MiG-29K? The "Super Green-bottle Fly"—the F/A-18E/F—the world's most capable subsonic fighter. Oh, right—besides being subsonic, it also requires a catapult, and costs three to four times as much as the MiG-29K.
By the way, Malaysia has that piece of junk too—the F/A-18C/D—so they dutifully bought the Su-30MKM to handle the tasks that the lousy American hardware couldn't manage.
The US probably wouldn't sell you an aircraft carrier anyway.
But you already got the Project 971 nuclear submarine and the Tu-142, didn't you? Where else could you get those from—the world's second-ranked power? Not to mention the BrahMos and BrahMos-II.
You certainly know how to pick and choose exactly what you want.

C-17 is far inferior to the Il-476, As a strategic transport aircraft, the most critical metric is the takeoff runway length. The C-17 actually requires a takeoff roll distance on par with the An-124 (75tons-over 2,300 m, as for AN-124-120tons-2400m far exceeding the Il-476's 60tons-1,500 m+), yet its payload is only 60% of the An-124's. And it’s sold at a higher price than the An-124 — what’s the logic behind that?
M777 put on a completely useless show in Ukraine,
Apache isn’t even fit to carry the shoes of the Mi-28 or Ka-52.

On what level is American equipment advanced?

Most warships use American engines,
and then the Americans themselves happily go and buy Rolls-Royce MT30 engines.

Just like American Cars, their military equipment are overrated as well.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Clear who is getting worked up.

Where did I write that F18E/F is getting replaced by F35? Can't even read eh?

Of course you can't look at elementary level math as it is enough to prove just how bad Mig29K is.

Maybe in your reality Rafale and F18SH can't take off from ski jumped carriers. Really should get your brain checked.

For IN and others who are actually sane, have already seen Rafale's and SH takeoffs from ski jumps:

Mega deal in mind, Rafale M takes off from Navy’s Goa test range, Boeing F/A 18 next

The marine version of the French fighter jet performed a ski-jump —a crucial take-off capability — to demonstrate its ability to operate from Indian aircraft carriers.

theprint.in

Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet Successfully Completes Operational Demonstrations in India

www.boeing.co.in

And now by trying to bring NATF program you are just trying to switch topics as your lies have been exposed.

Those accidents were in active service.

But INS Vikramaditya is so bad that it managed to suffer accidents in sea trials itself.

Faulty boilers caused Indian aircraft carrier's trial snags

Sea trials of an Indian Navy aircraft carrier refitted at a Russian shipyard were unsuccessful due to design failures in the vessel's boilers, a former Russian official has said.

www.deccanherald.com

You won't manage to wriggle out your way by lying. We Indians have full history of Russian equipment.

Oh, right
— isn't the F-18E/F supposed to be replaced by the F-35?
So by your logic,
the F-18E/F replaced the F-35?
------------------------------Yeah, I can totally see that happening.
I heard the latest batch of F-35s are rolling off the production line without radars installed — has that cooled the American fanboys' love for their daddy at all?

And the F-22 also had crashes before delivery, just like the Su-57
— by your logic, does that mean the F-22 SU-57 is inferior too?

A plane that only crashed once before delivery — by any measure that's a pretty low number, isn't it?
If I remember correctly, the AV-8 crashed about seven or eight times, right?

Hyper, 99% of what you say is wrong but I admire the persistence of not using google

People who use Google as their source are usually called grade-schoolers.

 

[Barcid]

Oh, right
— isn't the F-18E/F supposed to be replaced by the F-35?
So by your logic,
the F-18E/F replaced the F-35? ------------------------------Yeah, I can totally see that happening.
I heard the latest batch of F-35s are rolling off the production line without radars installed — has that cooled the American fanboys' love for their daddy at all?

And the F-22 also had crashes before delivery, just like the Su-57
— by your logic, does that mean the F-22 is inferior too?


People who use Google as their source are usually called grade-schoolers.

Still can't read eh?
Let me quote again

And what kind of idiot someone has to be to think that F18E replaced F18C. It is well known F18E replaced the F14, and both F18C and F18E serve on the carriers together. F18Cs are being replaced by F35Cs.

Can you read now? Fact is, both F18C and F18E will serve 40+ years in USN, compared to measly 20 years for Mig29K

Still the elementary math proves that IN lost 11% of Mig29K in just 14 years of service. No response to that.

And we are talking about ship, not aircraft, which literally caught fire due to faulty boilers, and the russian pimp still insists that there is no issue in it.

And what happened to your imaginary claim that Rafale and SH can't take off from ski jump carriers?

The stupidity shown is too funny man

Now I get why USSR lost the cold war, because of gentlemen like you LoL

 

[Optimist]

People who use Google as their source are usually called grade-schoolers.

I'll help a bit, because it seems he is below the grade-schoolers,
As a bonus question, what does the FA-XX replace?

Google Search

 

[batman]

Indian navy is not stupid like russian engineers.

You are free to share you opinions but this kind of disrespect to Russian scientists when it was their Russian technology which has hand held and given so much to our country is childish and unwarranted. We are still unable to make a decent 4th gen aircraft as of 2026 and still has not made a working 4th gen engine. If it wasn't for foreign support, mostly Russian, our aerospace and military industrial complex would be at least two decades behind it's current capability. Most of our premier and top tier systems are what Russian science and engineering have been producing which India trusted with for decades, the Brahmos, Mig-21, Mig-29, Su-30MKI, T-72, T-90, Akula Submarines, Brahmos corporation, air-defence systems, nuclear and naval tech corporation, aircraft carrier support and modernisation, The Kalashnikov series, Helicopters, engines, missiles, ammunition, and decades of maintenance and upgrades etc

Should I also count the Help in building the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant, Decades of civilian nuclear reactor technology and fuel cooperation, Early space cooperation, including launching Indian satellites, Support for India's first astronaut, Rakesh Sharma, whose mission flew aboard a Soviet spacecraft, Cryogenic rocket engine cooperation that contributed to India's later indigenous launch capabilities, despite geopolitical restrictions, Technology transfer, industrial training, and scientific collaboration across engineering and energy.

Calling Russian scientists "idiots" doesn't make you look informed, it ignores the fact that India spent decades acquiring technology, training, and know-how from them precisely because we lacked comparable capabilities ourselves. Nations don't build their security and strategic industries on the work of fools.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Still can't read eh?
Let me quote again


Can you read now? Fact is, both F18C and F18E will serve 40+ years in USN, compared to measly 20 years for Mig29K

Still the elementary math proves that IN lost 11% of Mig29K in just 14 years of service. No response to that.

And we are talking about ship, not aircraft, which literally caught fire due to faulty boilers, and the russian pimp still insists that there is no issue in it.

And what happened to your imaginary claim that Rafale and SH can't take off from ski jump carriers?

The stupidity shown is too funny man

Now I get why USSR lost the cold war, because of gentlemen like you LoL

They started by saying the MiG-29K is junk because it's getting replaced after "only" 20 years.
So I told them, right — the F-18C got replaced by the F-18E after just 13 years, which makes it even more junk.

Then they told me the F-18E and F-18C are a parallel relationship, that the F-18C replaced the A-6/A-7, and the F-35C replaces the F-18E.
So I told them, right — the F-18E only lasted 20 years before being replaced by the F-35C, so it's junk too.

But here's what I find really strange: if the F-18 is so superb, why would anyone choose the Rafale? I just don't get it.

Since the Rafale can operate perfectly well from a ski-jump carrier, why do the French bother with catapults themselves? Is it because the French don't know how to use the Rafale as well as you do?
And since you say the F-18 can also operate from ski-jump carriers, why do the Americans still mess around with catapults? Are they out of their minds?

A carrier aircraft that only lost 11% over 14 years — first of all, that's a very low loss rate.

March 12, 1986 – Bureau No. 161613 (F-14A), assigned to Squadron VF-21.
March 26, 1986 – Bureau No. 160685 (F-14A), assigned to Squadron VF-51.
June 20, 1986 – Bureau No. 158983 (F-14A), assigned to Squadron VF-302.
August 13, 1986 – Bureau No. 161167 (F-14A), assigned to Squadron VF-211.
August 23, 1986 – Bureau No. 161148 (F-14A), assigned to Squadron VF-32.
September 2, 1986 – Bureau No. unknown (F-14A), assigned to Squadron VF-211 (total loss).
(In addition, there were five other non-combat total-loss crashes that year caused by mechanical failure, pilot spatial disorientation, or failed night carrier landings.)
In 1986 alone, the losses suffered by a single aircraft type — the F-14 — exceeded the entire Indian MiG-29K fleet.

It always pays to learn how to use Google.