HAL LUH / Ka-226: News and Discussions

Russia says India delaying signing helicopters deal: executive


Stanley Carvalho​

WORLD NEWS​

NOVEMBER 17, 2019​


DUBAI (Reuters) - The head of Russian Helicopters said on Sunday that India was delaying the signing of a firm agreement for purchasing 200 helicopters despite providing all information.​


Chief Executive Andrey Boginsky also said it would benefit India if the planned order for over 100 rotorcraft for the Indian Navy could be combined with the 200 India is looking to buy for the Army.​


Russian Helicopters is owned by state-owned Russian conglomerate Rostec.​


India and Russia signed a deal in 2015 under Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s ‘Make in India’ program for the supply of 200 Russian KA 226T helicopters, with Russia to deliver 60 and the remaining to be assembled and manufactured in India.​


The two countries also have held preliminary talks for the supply of over 100 of the KA 226-T helicopters for the Indian Navy, Boginsky said.​


“We have done significant successful work and provided all information to India’s ministry of defense, unfortunately there is no efficient and quick way from the Indian side,” he told Reuters at the Dubai Air Show.​


“We can’t understand the reasons for the delay.”​


On the order for the Indian Navy, Boginsky said India would benefit from combining both orders to gain more value in enhancing its capabilities.​


“The main winner will be India if both orders are joined,” he said, adding Russian Helicopters was awaiting a formal request of an order from the Indian Navy.​


Civilian helicopters account for about 30-35% of Russian Helicopters’ total sales while the remaining 65-70% are military choppers. The civilian-military sales ratio is expected to remain the same in the next three years but total sales volumes could increase as Russian Helicopters brings to the market its expanded range of choppers, said Boginsky.​


The company is in talks with international customers including some in the Middle East for sale of its new Mi-38 helicopters, he said, declining to elaborate.​


The new VRT-500 helicopters, with the first flight scheduled for 2021, has seen strong interest from India and some Middle East countries, he said, adding a deal for the VRT-500 will be signed at the ongoing Dubai expo.​


“There is strong interest from Indian companies to assemble (VRT 500) in India,” he said.​


Funding is also a reason.
S400 , Rafale and payments for Russian purchases like T90 / 2nd Akula / Talwar etc will continue this FY too.

MH60R, Rifles , more ammo, artillery deals are also prepped for this year.

Plus payments for IAC1, P17A, SSBN project is also to be made.

Due to make in India , HAL and other DPSUs are expecting major deals like 83 Tejas, Limited Serial Production for LCH and LUH , more orders for Shilka upgrades, Akash orders and Pinaka orders.

These eat up a lot.

After all this C295 is also to be done, Airbus won't extend their prices anymore.

And after the purchase of Akula and Talwar last year, IAF is pushing for 2 more Phalon to be ordered this year itself.

Then there is Apache, M777, Chinook and C130J payments too.

Budget is an issue.

We needed another 50-60 Mi17V5 for CAPFs and few for VVIP duties, but non have been brought.
 
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Ah...shucks.

India, Russia to Sign Ka-226T Contract By May 2020

Our Bureau
11:07 AM, November 18, 2019
2c5cae043_1574075234.jpg

The long-delayed Ka-226T helicopter procurement by India is expected to be signed by May 2020.

"An Indo-Russian joint venture has been created. The helicopter is being updated based on the requirements of the Indian Ministry of Defense. We hope to complete the project and sign a contract in the next six months," Alexander Mikheyev, CEO of Rosoboronexport, said on Monday, at the Dubai Airshow 2019.

The JV was setup between Russian Helicopters and Indian defence PSU, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

In 2015, Russia and India signed an intergovernmental agreement on the supply of light Ka-226T helicopters to the Indian side and localization of the production on its territory. The document includes deliveries of 60 Russian-made helicopters and the production of another 140 aircraft in India with a localization level of 50-70%, reports TASS.

In May 2018, the Indian MoD issued a Request for Proposal (RFP) to procure and co-produce 200 Russian Kamov Ka-226T helicopters for the country’s army and air force, estimated to cost INR 21,000 Crore (US$3 billion). Additionally, the JV intends to offer the Ka-226T to the Indian navy as part of a tender for 111 helicopters.

At the Aero India 2019 airshow this February, the Russian Helicopters Holding signed memoranda of understanding with Indian companies for the production of assemblies components for the Ka-226Ts in India. The MoU was signed with India's Elcom, Valdel Advanced Technologies, Dynamatic Technologies, Integrated Helicopter Services and Bharat Forge, for assemblies such as fuselage, blades, radiostation and landing gear.

India, Russia to Sign Ka-226T Contract By May 2020
 
Ah...shucks.

India, Russia to Sign Ka-226T Contract By May 2020

Our Bureau
11:07 AM, November 18, 2019
2c5cae043_1574075234.jpg

The long-delayed Ka-226T helicopter procurement by India is expected to be signed by May 2020.

"An Indo-Russian joint venture has been created. The helicopter is being updated based on the requirements of the Indian Ministry of Defense. We hope to complete the project and sign a contract in the next six months," Alexander Mikheyev, CEO of Rosoboronexport, said on Monday, at the Dubai Airshow 2019.

The JV was setup between Russian Helicopters and Indian defence PSU, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

In 2015, Russia and India signed an intergovernmental agreement on the supply of light Ka-226T helicopters to the Indian side and localization of the production on its territory. The document includes deliveries of 60 Russian-made helicopters and the production of another 140 aircraft in India with a localization level of 50-70%, reports TASS.

In May 2018, the Indian MoD issued a Request for Proposal (RFP) to procure and co-produce 200 Russian Kamov Ka-226T helicopters for the country’s army and air force, estimated to cost INR 21,000 Crore (US$3 billion). Additionally, the JV intends to offer the Ka-226T to the Indian navy as part of a tender for 111 helicopters.

At the Aero India 2019 airshow this February, the Russian Helicopters Holding signed memoranda of understanding with Indian companies for the production of assemblies components for the Ka-226Ts in India. The MoU was signed with India's Elcom, Valdel Advanced Technologies, Dynamatic Technologies, Integrated Helicopter Services and Bharat Forge, for assemblies such as fuselage, blades, radiostation and landing gear.

India, Russia to Sign Ka-226T Contract By May 2020

Don't worry..
we will sign MoU 1A and come back..
 
HAL’s Light Utility Helicopter ready

Monday, 25 November 2019 | Kestur Vasuki | BENGALURU
1574648693662.png

File Photo : HAL LUH

Unperturbed by the tremors within and outside Indian desi military aviation company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is ready with its three ton class Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and eagerly waiting for the orders from its clients Indian Defence forces.

A senior executive on the condition anonymity told The Pioneer that the company is wholly depending on Indian Defence forces for the orders on LUH. He said “ We are confident that Indian Defence forces will certainly buy this three ton class very agile LUH to replace its ageing choppers like Cheetah and Chetak. We are surely depending on more orders for Tejus and LUH from the Defence Ministry. This is a make in India product and will be produced in Tumukur factory near Bengaluru.”

He said the LUH would be used for Reconnaissance & Surveillance, reconnaissance, Aerial Photography, Airborne Forward Air Controller, Casualty Evacuation and to provide assistance in emergency to civil authorities etc.,

Light Utilty Helicopter (LUH) indigenously built by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is 3-ton class helicopter with 4 Bladed Composite Main Rotor System, Main Rotor Blade Folding, 4 Bladed Tail Rotor System, Single Engine with dual channel automatic fuel control (FADEC) with additional backup control, Night Flying Capability, Glass Cockpit with Smart Cockpit Display Systems (SCDS), Skid Landing Gear, Fuselage to accommodate 2 pilots in side by side configuration and 6 passengers and Crashworthy Crew Seats.

According to available information the Indian Army and Indian Air Force together are operating about 400 Cheetah (France Design Alouette III helicopter) and Chetak (France Design LAMA helicopter ) helicopters supplied by HAL ( Licence produced at HAL, Bengaluru) starting from 1960s. These helicopter fleet have served the country for nearly four decades, need to be replaced in a phased manner with a more efficient and state-of- the- art technology based helicopter.

It is in this backdrop, the Indian Army and Indian Air Force finalised the requirement of a Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter (to replace Cheetah and Chetak helicopter) and issued a GSQR in the year 2008. The total projected quantity required by Armed Forces is 384 helicopters, of which, 197 helicopters are earmarked for direct global purchase and remaining 187 helicopters are classified under make category, to be indigenously manufactured by HAL based on Design and Development of Light Utility Helicopter (LUH).

The GOI accorded approval to HAL, in February 2009 to go-ahead with design and development of Light Utility Helicopter. The time given to HAL was 6 years, including a buffer of one year to accommodate delays in Design and Development.

“We have done everything possible to meet the expectations of the Indian armed forces matching with global standards. LUH is being designed to provide excellent performance at high altitude operations.

These features make LUH to stand out in comparison to other contemporary helicopter in its class. The USP of LUH designed by HAL is its capability to hover at 6 km altitude (Hover performance) with considerable payload”, he added.

HAL’s Light Utility Helicopter ready
 
The total projected quantity required by Armed Forces is 384 helicopters, of which, 197 helicopters are earmarked for direct global purchase and remaining 187 helicopters are classified under make category, to be indigenously manufactured by HAL based on Design and Development of Light Utility Helicopter (LUH).
Why a global purchase, when luh is ready??
 
Ready how??? from the article - IT has still not achieved IOC
Ka-226 is delivered right away either. It's gonna take a while to setup the production facility, establish the supply chain, all the bureaucratic hurdles and red-tape, get the necessary kickbacks and by the time we receive our first chopper...this should be enough time to push for the LUH
 
Agreed, what is the status of that tender and ka 226? Deliverable now? And how far out is luh certification?
Tender for ??? - the requirement we are looking at currently is for the Army - which are split between the Ka226 an LUH (i think)
Ka-226 is delivered right away either. It's gonna take a while to setup the production facility, establish the supply chain, all the bureaucratic hurdles and red-tape, get the necessary kickbacks and by the time we receive our first chopper...this should be enough time to push for the LUH
Well here - we are looking at initial frames 60 off the shelf and the next 140 in kit form (see post - #44) + the production lines for the Ka226 for india is already set up in russia (see post #41)
 
India, Russia conclude price talks for 200 Kamov copters

By Ajay Banerjee
New Delhi, January 19
1579541556317.png


More than four years after India and Russia signed an inter-governmental pact allowing Russia to supply 200 Kamov Ka-226T helicopters, the price negotiations have been concluded. A formal contract may be signed in the next few months.

The price for the 200 copters would be around $4 billion (Rs 28,000 crore approximately), sources said. This would also include transfer of 50% technology, including structure of the copter, its blades and landing gear, all important for metallurgy and transfer of technology.

The Kamov 226T uses an engine made by French major Safran. India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Safran already have an existing joint venture to produce engines for the advanced light helicopter made by the HAL. A facility

to manufacture KA-226T helicopters in India has been created at HAL’s newly set up plant at Tumkuru, near Bengaluru. A new created entity called Indo Russian Helicopter Pvt. Ltd. (IRHL) will produce these copters. Once the domestic demand is met, India and Russia also intend to export Kamov-226Ts to other countries.

The Kamov is a replacement for the obsolete Cheetah and Chetak fleets of the Indian armed forces. The three services need 495 light-utility helicopters (LUH) to replace Cheetah/Chetak fleet of helicopters. The Army requires 259, IAF 125 and Navy around 111 such helicopters equipped with anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities.

Cheetah/Chetak helicopters are based on the 1950s’ designed Alouette Aérospatiale 315B Lama of France.

While the Naval tender is separate from this contract, the demand for some 384 light copters will be met by the Kamov and the ALH. The HAL is producing 24-26 helicopters per year and the Ministry of Defence wants it to produce at least 80 per annum.

India and Russia concluded an inter-governmental agreement (IGA) for 200 helicopters in October 2015. As per the original tender, 60 helicopters will be imported from Russia and the rest will be built in India. A joint venture (JV) has already been set up between HAL and Russia’s Rostec – JSC Rosoboronexport and Russian Helicopters.

India, Russia conclude price talks for 200 Kamov copters
 
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India, Russia conclude price talks for 200 Kamov copters

By Ajay Banerjee
New Delhi, January 19
View attachment 13347

More than four years after India and Russia signed an inter-governmental pact allowing Russia to supply 200 Kamov Ka-226T helicopters, the price negotiations have been concluded. A formal contract may be signed in the next few months.

The price for the 200 copters would be around $4 billion (Rs 28,000 crore approximately), sources said. This would also include transfer of 50% technology, including structure of the copter, its blades and landing gear, all important for metallurgy and transfer of technology.

The Kamov 226T uses an engine made by French major Safran. India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Safran already have an existing joint venture to produce engines for the advanced light helicopter made by the HAL. A facility

to manufacture KA-226T helicopters in India has been created at HAL’s newly set up plant at Tumkuru, near Bengaluru. A new created entity called Indo Russian Helicopter Pvt. Ltd. (IRHL) will produce these copters. Once the domestic demand is met, India and Russia also intend to export Kamov-226Ts to other countries.

The Kamov is a replacement for the obsolete Cheetah and Chetak fleets of the Indian armed forces. The three services need 495 light-utility helicopters (LUH) to replace Cheetah/Chetak fleet of helicopters. The Army requires 259, IAF 125 and Navy around 111 such helicopters equipped with anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities.

Cheetah/Chetak helicopters are based on the 1950s’ designed Alouette Aérospatiale 315B Lama of France.

While the Naval tender is separate from this contract, the demand for some 384 light copters will be met by the Kamov and the ALH. The HAL is producing 24-26 helicopters per year and the Ministry of Defence wants it to produce at least 80 per annum.

India and Russia concluded an inter-governmental agreement (IGA) for 200 helicopters in October 2015. As per the original tender, 60 helicopters will be imported from Russia and the rest will be built in India. A joint venture (JV) has already been set up between HAL and Russia’s Rostec – JSC Rosoboronexport and Russian Helicopters.

India, Russia conclude price talks for 200 Kamov copters
We should've abandoned this and gone for the LUH in full.
 
India, Russia conclude price talks for 200 Kamov copters

By Ajay Banerjee
New Delhi, January 19
View attachment 13347

More than four years after India and Russia signed an inter-governmental pact allowing Russia to supply 200 Kamov Ka-226T helicopters, the price negotiations have been concluded. A formal contract may be signed in the next few months.

The price for the 200 copters would be around $4 billion (Rs 28,000 crore approximately), sources said. This would also include transfer of 50% technology, including structure of the copter, its blades and landing gear, all important for metallurgy and transfer of technology.

The Kamov 226T uses an engine made by French major Safran. India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and Safran already have an existing joint venture to produce engines for the advanced light helicopter made by the HAL. A facility

to manufacture KA-226T helicopters in India has been created at HAL’s newly set up plant at Tumkuru, near Bengaluru. A new created entity called Indo Russian Helicopter Pvt. Ltd. (IRHL) will produce these copters. Once the domestic demand is met, India and Russia also intend to export Kamov-226Ts to other countries.

The Kamov is a replacement for the obsolete Cheetah and Chetak fleets of the Indian armed forces. The three services need 495 light-utility helicopters (LUH) to replace Cheetah/Chetak fleet of helicopters. The Army requires 259, IAF 125 and Navy around 111 such helicopters equipped with anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities.

Cheetah/Chetak helicopters are based on the 1950s’ designed Alouette Aérospatiale 315B Lama of France.

While the Naval tender is separate from this contract, the demand for some 384 light copters will be met by the Kamov and the ALH. The HAL is producing 24-26 helicopters per year and the Ministry of Defence wants it to produce at least 80 per annum.

India and Russia concluded an inter-governmental agreement (IGA) for 200 helicopters in October 2015. As per the original tender, 60 helicopters will be imported from Russia and the rest will be built in India. A joint venture (JV) has already been set up between HAL and Russia’s Rostec – JSC Rosoboronexport and Russian Helicopters.

India, Russia conclude price talks for 200 Kamov copters

Price went up from 1 billion to 3 and now 4 ..
Can't it serve Navy too?
Why another big deal for light heli when India is already making LUH
 
Price went up from 1 billion to 3 and now 4 ..

I suppose 25-30% is just royalty fees for ToT. The rest would be a full and final cost and not just unit price. $1B to $1.5B should be the cost of flyaway helicopters alone. These helicopters will also come with a lot of air defence technologies, even advanced radars and such, so that adds to the cost.

Can't it serve Navy too?

Yes, it can. But the Russians have to participate in the NUH tender on their own, without HAL involvement. So the same facility cannot build the helicopter as the IA and IAF's versions. So it sadly seems quite unrealistic for them.

If they win, they may have to build a second facility with the private industry. Funny stuff, but necessary, if we are to support the private industry. All the subcontractors will be the existing ones though, only the lead integrator will be in the private industry, so it won't be such a bad thing.

But I think it's too small for NUH. S-76D offers space for 13 passengers while Ka-226T only offers 7. So my money is on Sikorsky winning NUH, with H145M giving it stiff resistance rather than the Ka-226T, which is the runt of the litter.

Why another big deal for light heli when India is already making LUH

This is same as 200 each of SE MII and TE MII for fighter jets. So 200 each of LUH and Ka-226T. LUH is single engine, Ka-226T is twin engine. The Ka-226T can be used in more dangerous areas where weather is murder on the engines. So in case one of the engines fail, the Ka-226T carrying multiple people won't crash.

Also, the Ka-226T lacks a long tail, so its compact size allows it to be used alongside cliffs and areas where space is constrained. And unlike other helicopters, it's extremely modular. The detachable cabin can be changed to suit the role, passenger, troop transport, ambulance, SAR etc. It is also significantly more stable and is much more agile than other helicopter designs, which is a big plus point over mountains. The rear opening is also very useful, makes it much more easy to get in and out of the helicopter. It has twice the payload compared to LUH.

If Ka-226T was Indian and LUH was Russian, then we wouldn't have gone for the LUH, the entire fleet would have been Ka-226T. Even though LUH is Indian, the Ka-226T is simply a far superior design, and this is something only Kamov could accomplish reliably.

Another plan, which failed, was for private sector to build Ka-226T, but the govt refused to nominate Reliance, the main contender, and the Russians refused to deal with a company that wasn't nominated. GoI later nominated HAL and that's why HAL got both LUH and Ka-226T. The Russians were more interested in dealing with Reliance, but wouldn't work with them without a nomination. So this was a complete bureaucratic failure and has since been corrected.
 
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I suppose 25-30% is just royalty fees for ToT. The rest would be a full and final cost and not just unit price. $1B to $1.5B should be the cost of flyaway helicopters alone. These helicopters will also come with a lot of air defence technologies, even advanced radars and such, so that adds to the cost.

What radar does it have?