HAL Combat Air Teaming System (CATS) Program - Updates and Discussion

Is any of this confirmed or are we looking at a new Story Teller now ? Besides why not convert the NLCA into an UCAV ? Isn't that easier than launching a clean sheet design ?

N-LCA Mk1s cqrrier TO/L capability from angled decks is proven. Converting it into an optionally manned ac using the CATS OMCA kit would be a great way to leverage lessons learned for developing dedicated carrier based UCAVs and manned 5G jets.

If not strike missions, it could easily serve as a more modest counterpart to the USNs MQ-25 Stringray unmanned tanker/ISR platform.
 
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Is any of this confirmed or are we looking at a new Story Teller now ?
Seems to be, the rendering of cats warrior, brahmos ng, astramk2, tara, Saaw, rudram 2, seems fairly accurate, which further increases the chances of renders of bigger cats warrior mk2(unmaned amca looking thing), and cats hunter( stealthy cruise missile in the middle) being accurate too.

And we have multiple confirmations by hal test pilot and drdo that they were working on bigger loyal wingman drone powered by htfe-25 engines( 2 in this case).

Cats hunter is a open hal led project.





Besides why not convert the NLCA into an UCAV

Possible.
As @Speedster1 said.
Converting it into an optionally manned ac using the CATS OMCA kit would be a great way to leverage lessons learned for developing dedicated carrier based UCAVs and manned 5G jets.


Isn't that easier than launching a clean sheet design ?
Its not stealth, along with having a cockpit and associated systems for human pilot, taking space that otherwise will be available in unmanned systems, its internal architecture is also of older generation compared to what will be installed in future unmanned and manned systems.








If not strike missions, it could easily serve as a more modest counterpart to the USNs MQ-25 Stringray unmanned tanker/ISR platform.
A dedicated drone will ultimately be a better platform for that.
 
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HAL seems to be predicting a future fleet of ~100 CATS Warrior drones. This is probably the smaller IAF variant of the Warrior with the PTAE engines.:
View attachment 50554
Also ~200 RUAVs
Cats warrior with PTAE engines
will be attritable, quick to produce to replenish used up stock.

~100 is most likely initial batch, given its a new concept that air force will take time to get used to.




its stocks should be treated relatively more like missile stocks for example, though not limited to one time use only.

rather than treating it similar to assets like fighters,helis etc which require lot more capital,infra and time to replenish lost units.
 
HAL seems to be predicting a future fleet of ~100 CATS Warrior drones. This is probably the smaller IAF variant of the Warrior with the PTAE engines.:
View attachment 50554
Also ~200 RUAVs
How come HAL is making such forecasts & there's absolutely nothing about this from the IAF ? If I'm not mistaken the IAF isn't even participating in its development .

It's been more than a year since AI-25 & the IN announcement of a new CCA - Abhimanyu, it was developing with New Space .

However we've not heard anything about CCAs or UCAVs the IAF is set to develop leave aside field except maybe the Ghatak which is a long way from induction .

Can't see what exactly is the gameplan of the IAF here , where PLAAF has been inducting Drones , CCAs & UCAVs left right & centre !
 
How come HAL is making such forecasts & there's absolutely nothing about this from the IAF ? If I'm not mistaken the IAF isn't even participating in its development .

It's been more than a year since AI-25 & the IN announcement of a new CCA - Abhimanyu, it was developing with New Space .

However we've not heard anything about CCAs or UCAVs the IAF is set to develop leave aside field except maybe the Ghatak which is a long way from induction .

Can't see what exactly is the gameplan of the IAF here , where PLAAF has been inducting Drones , CCAs & UCAVs left right & centre !
They will do emergency import of french & israeli CCA that's their game plan.

when it comes to tech development they are far behind the world.

They have never supported any local programs, all they think about is imports.
 
Right now all of these drone programs are HAL's pet projects without the support of forces.

In the expendable class, the IN has chosen Abhimanyu. I guess it's currently not suitable for IAF use.

In the non-expendable class, neither the IAF nor IN have made a decision yet. We will likely be looking at a large program with multiple competitors, HAL being one of them. Or maybe none at all.

General Atomics is offering their Gambit Series. Airbus is offering something too.

In India, Paninian is working on a loyal wingman program.

Right now, there's no clear indication of whether the forces will even pursue these non-expendable mid-range drone programs. Only the IN has shown a passing interest in the CATS concept in front of the media. The IAF has been mum about everything.

Kalam Labs is working on a near-space mach 2.5+ supercruise-capable drone.

The Indian Army already tested one of their autonomous UAVs to above 30 km in the Himalayas. The website's banner is the video. They are currently working on a smaller ramjet UAV for near-space surveillance.
 
In the non-expendable class, neither the IAF nor IN have made a decision yet. We will likely be looking at a large program with multiple competitors, HAL being one of them. Or maybe none at all.

The IA has signed up for a smaller, MALE version of NRTs HAPS drone called Medium Altitude Persistent Surveillance System.


Otoh, the IN has ordered the full-spec HAPS version.

Not many know that NRT is partnered with HAL on this project aka CATS Infinity.

 
The IA has signed up for a smaller, MALE version of NRTs HAPS drone called Medium Altitude Persistent Surveillance System.


Otoh, the IN has ordered the full-spec HAPS version.

Not many know that NRT is partnered with HAL on this project aka CATS Infinity.


They are not loyal wingman drones though. Unclear if/when it's gonna begin.
 
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They will do emergency import of french & israeli CCA that's their game plan.

when it comes to tech development they are far behind the world.

They have never supported any local programs, all they think about is imports.
There are currently no French or Israeli CCA in advanced stages of development.
CCA is a component of FCAS but as everyone knows it's easily another 15 years away from realization.
No Israeli CCA ecosystem exists as per public reports.
As opposed to that, HAL & NRT loyal wingman programs are in significantly advanced stages of development and both will see light of the day
 
They are not loyal wingman drones though. Unclear if/when it's gonna begin.

True. But I'm betting on the IN to lead the way on CCA. No other navy is developing a STOBAR capable, jet-powered CCA atm(except perhaps the Turkish Kizilelma, which will not be available to us for obvious reasons)

Other potential alternatives like the MQ-9B STOL variant cannot operate in the loyal wingman role. So the IN will certainly have to go all in with the Abhimanyu, CATS Warrior and their follow-ons, imo.
 
True. But I'm betting on the IN to lead the way on CCA. No other navy is developing a STOBAR capable, jet-powered CCA atm(except perhaps the Turkish Kizilelma, which will not be available to us for obvious reasons)

Other potential alternatives like the MQ-9B STOL variant cannot operate in the loyal wingman role. So the IN will certainly have to go all in with the Abhimanyu, CATS Warrior and their follow-ons, imo.

Abhimanyu's definitely in. We will see modernized versions too.

But the problem with these regular joe loyal wingman drones which are not gold-plated, like Warrior, you are taking up valuable real estate on a carrier, so it's unclear if the limited capability will actually complement the fighter jets.

Abhimanyu's tiny, so that's fine. Neuron is an advanced stealth drone so definitely a good complement to the Rafale. But what about Warrior? It is worth it?

The French are also planning advanced UCAVs for PANG.

The USAF needs mass, but I think the USN and IN will go for gold-plated drones that are more survivable than their manned fighters operating alongside limited-capability expendable drones like Abhimanyu.

Think FUFA/Ghatak-class drones along with Abhimanyu or even a 1-ton Mk2 version for the IN.

So will the IAF chase after more expensive options or cheaper options like Warrior, that's the real question.

“I want something that’s going to fly for a couple hundred hours. The last hour it’s either a target or a weapon. I’m either going to hit something with it or I’m going to train [a sensor on it] and shoot it down,” he said today during a briefing at the Sea Air Space conference. “But I’m not going to sustain them for 30 years.”
 
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Right now all of these drone programs are HAL's pet projects without the support of forces.

In the expendable class, the IN has chosen Abhimanyu. I guess it's currently not suitable for IAF use.

In the non-expendable class, neither the IAF nor IN have made a decision yet. We will likely be looking at a large program with multiple competitors, HAL being one of them. Or maybe none at all.

General Atomics is offering their Gambit Series. Airbus is offering something too.

In India, Paninian is working on a loyal wingman program.

Right now, there's no clear indication of whether the forces will even pursue these non-expendable mid-range drone programs. Only the IN has shown a passing interest in the CATS concept in front of the media. The IAF has been mum about everything.

Kalam Labs is working on a near-space mach 2.5+ supercruise-capable drone.

The Indian Army already tested one of their autonomous UAVs to above 30 km in the Himalayas. The website's banner is the video. They are currently working on a smaller ramjet UAV for near-space surveillance.
These startups Kalam Labs and Paninian how exactly do they expect to achieve their grandiose design targets? What will power their drones and do they even have the experience to design such things? Their capability to act on their claims are borderline laughable rn.
 
These startups Kalam Labs and Paninian how exactly do they expect to achieve their grandiose design targets? What will power their drones and do they even have the experience to design such things? Their capability to act on their claims are borderline laughable rn.

Paninian's design is a standard loyal wingman drone. They are working on their own engine.

Kalam Labs, not sure. The ramjet is likely to be their own design, but can't say about the turbine. They are starting small. Let's see how far they go.
 
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The USAF needs mass, but I think the USN and IN will go for gold-plated drones that are more survivable than their manned fighters operating alongside limited-capability expendable drones like Abhimanyu

Compared to the USN, the INs options will be much more limited. Any loyal wingman drones it acquires will need to be capable of carrier TO w/o catapult. That would likely mean some design/payload limitations.

The good news is that such drones willl be capable of operating from the upcoming LHDs without much fuss.
 
Compared to the USN, the INs options will be much more limited. Any loyal wingman drones it acquires will need to be capable of carrier TO w/o catapult. That would likely mean some design/payload limitations.

The good news is that such drones willl be capable of operating from the upcoming LHDs without much fuss.

For STOBAR operations, dedicated drones will have to be made. Either STOL like GA's Mojave, even Abhimanyu, or come with afterburners.

Current jet-propelled drones in the West are all land-based, no afterburner. In America, CATOBAR options are still in the concept stage. So none of those are options today. Plus unlikely to have afterburners too.

Grom is a land-based Russian option with an afterburner.

So it appears we are still quite some years away from seeing anything meaningful for STOBAR.

Why would they be operable from LHDs? They will perform worse there without a ramp.