Government admits in Parliament that IAF's fighter shortfall will worsen during NDA’s term

Dont give a stupid reason please
There are protocols,. 6 months before the Parliamentary elections, the govt is not allowed to sign any deals and that is the protocol.
The sooner the congress came into power, it was outgoing govt, are you trying to say that?
Anthony had a year and half to sign the deal after the negotiations were complete, and he did not sign and that is PERIOD.
There is no Andh supporters, except Gand supporters like you. Get your facts write,.
Guynextdoor said:
Outgoing governments don’t sign big deals period. And it was a very wise decision else modi would have made baseless allegations of corruption and said they were in a hurry to sign deal for corruption. In 3 years he didn’t get the better deal he promised or at least go with original deal. Andh supporters will now blame old governments for that even 20 years later.
Click to expand...
 
smestarz said:
Dont give a stupid reason please
There are protocols,. 6 months before the Parliamentary elections, the govt is not allowed to sign any deals and that is the protocol.
The sooner the congress came into power, it was outgoing govt, are you trying to say that?
Anthony had a year and half to sign the deal after the negotiations were complete, and he did not sign and that is PERIOD.
There is no Andh supporters, except Gand supporters like you. Get your facts write,.
Click to expand...
I believe andh supporters are born with the unintelligent gene. Then why didn’t modi sign the deal in 1st 6 moths of his government PERIOD
 
The procurement policy in a way was faulty, First they test the planes for few years, which is right, Then they select the top two, which is correct
Then they declare L1, which is perfect too, Then they negotiate with L1 perfect too, but if the discussions with L1 stall then there is no option. Either sign with L1 or start the process again. There was no way that after the discussions with L1 were stalled, we could discuss with L2 and thus L1 would be under pressure to discuss else he will lose to L2. But here the L1 was assured that no matter what, its them only, no other choice.
And this process also would delay the procurement of planes, since if contract would not be signed with L1 the process has to start again.
BTW are you sure that Whatever Modi got for say 7.8 billion dollars, missiles etc is expensive, and UPA would have got 126 planes (18 + 108) + Weapons and Missile (as much as NaMo got for each plane) s + 3-4 Bases to keep these planes + Training for pilots and technicians + 5 years maintenance agreement and yes A LINE TO PRODUCE IN INDIA, and of course 30% ToT for US$ 10 billion dollars? Your comments please GaND

Guynextdoor said:
Procurement policy for mmrca was very transparent until modi took over. Clear competition with clearly defined parameters leading to one winner. Modi obviously wanted to make it all messed up and the country sufferes
Click to expand...
 
Earlier DM was looking at all the various discussions, and that time, DM was trying to cancel MMRCA and it was cancelled, But since IAF wanted Rafale for SFC so it was ordered and the order is for 36 only... As you know there are separate terms and conditions, the cost negotiations took a while

Guynextdoor said:
I believe andh supporters are born with the unintelligent gene. Then why didn’t modi sign the deal in 1st 6 moths of his government PERIOD
Click to expand...
 
Guynextdoor said:
Procurement policy for mmrca was very transparent until modi took over. Clear competition with clearly defined parameters leading to one winner. Modi obviously wanted to make it all messed up and the country sufferes
Click to expand...

MMRCA deal was screwed. UPA delayed it so that NDA cancels it. If UPA had canceled it, it would have led to diplomatic problems with the French.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: smestarz
_Anonymous_ said:
But seriously what's your take on it ?
Click to expand...

Buying more MKIs is a bad choice. We already have too many. So producing even a more advanced MKI will only result in a waste of time and money. Buying the basic PAK FA is a much better option.

FGFA may fail and India may only buy 63 PAK FAs. So AMCA will become the fall back plan.

If we are to save money, the navy should just buy some more Mig-29Ks, upgraded with AESA, and free up the funds for more Rafales for the IAF in the short term.

Money is the biggest problem right now. Nothing else. So they need to utilize whatever funds they have properly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: _Anonymous_
_Anonymous_ said:
I don't understand . Su 30 MKI was supposed to number 275 in all by 2019-20 timelines. Then we were informed that the IAF would be ordering 2 more squadrons which would take their nos effectively to 315 . PKS has been crying our hoarse since ages that the final tally will be between 350-375. @randomradio confirmed as much .

The FGFA's won't be arriving before 2025 at the earliest which means those lines at HAL will be also be churning out the MKI's till then given that HAL order book has dried up , we can't keep those lines idle and we need to make up the nos .What's the truth ? Would anyone in the know care to enlighten us ?
Click to expand...
Fiction writer PKS is not a source. Last ACM repeatedly stated that we don't want more MKIs. It's obvious when you look at planned 42 sqd force structure.

Raha said India has enough of heavy weight fighters—the Su30 MKI—which will last for another 30-40 years. He said the light weight spectrum would be served by the 123 Tejas light combat aircraft ordered by the IAF. Terming Rafale as an excellent aircraft, Raha said it comes in the medium weight spectrum.
Click to expand...
India needs 200-250 Rafales to maintain edge: Arup Raha


_Anonymous_ said:
That's from **** dated Feb 2016 . Now , **** is not exactly noted for accurate reporting . Meanwhile consider this article of a more recent vintage -

IAF to start process to acquire single engine jets this month

It clearly says quoting the current ACM that IAF is expecting a fresh fleet of 36 MKI's post 2019 . Now what's not clear is whether these are part of the 275 originally planned - part of which is yet to be delivered or whether it's an additional requirement. There's no clarity on this .
Click to expand...
You need to read the report carefully. Are they really quoting ACM ? or regular desi journalistic BS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: _Anonymous_
ashdoc said:
After tall claims to be a nationalistic government the BJP did not increase the defence budget. So instead of 126 plus 72 rafales we get only 36 . The problem lies there .
Click to expand...

If the procurement is staggered, then there is little to fear. Dassault will initiate MII with just 36 more Rafales. So IAF will end up placing tranche orders.

It's far more affordable to buy 36 at a time instead of 126 at once because we need to release 15% of the funds in advance, 30 days after contract signature.
 
Guynextdoor said:
The Rafael deal was completely negotiated before he came to power. All he had to do was check if everything was ok and sign. Instead he stalled it for a year looking for opportunities to allege corruption and when he didn’t find it stalled it saying he wants ‘beTter deal’, in the end he didn’t get an inch better, messed it by ordering only 36 jets and hs now twisted the whole thing calling for a new tender on single engine fighter because he knows otherwise people will question why the original Rafael deal was killed to start with. I’m quite confident that is an assessment that even people like @vstol Jockey will agree with if they’re completely honest.
Click to expand...

The SE tender wasn't Parrikar's idea, it was IAF's.
 
randomradio said:
MMRCA deal was screwed. UPA delayed it so that NDA cancels it. If UPA had canceled it, it would have led to diplomatic problems with the French.
Click to expand...

Bs, upa finished all the work. All that nda needs to do is sign it. And in 3 years that haven’t done it. 20 billion dollars is not an amount India needs to spend to keep French happy. Fact the deal was the best, despite big talk nda couldn’t get any better and are now screwing around.
 
randomradio said:
Buying more MKIs is a bad choice. We already have too many. So producing even a more advanced MKI will only result in a waste of time and money. Buying the basic PAK FA is a much better option.

FGFA may fail and India may only buy 63 PAK FAs. So AMCA will become the fall back plan.

If we are to save money, the navy should just buy some more Mig-29Ks, upgraded with AESA, and free up the funds for more Rafales for the IAF in the short term.

Money is the biggest problem right now. Nothing else. So they need to utilize whatever funds they have properly.
Click to expand...

Why nda screws up so much, people like you don’t even know that the planes don’t belong to the same class.
 
smestarz said:
Earlier DM was looking at all the various discussions, and that time, DM was trying to cancel MMRCA and it was cancelled, But since IAF wanted Rafale for SFC so it was ordered and the order is for 36 only... As you know there are separate terms and conditions, the cost negotiations took a while
Click to expand...

Basically current dms are as confused about what to do as your posts
 
randomradio said:
Buying more MKIs is a bad choice. We already have too many. So producing even a more advanced MKI will only result in a waste of time and money. Buying the basic PAK FA is a much better option.

FGFA may fail and India may only buy 63 PAK FAs. So AMCA will become the fall back plan.

If we are to save money, the navy should just buy some more Mig-29Ks, upgraded with AESA, and free up the funds for more Rafales for the IAF in the short term.

Money is the biggest problem right now. Nothing else. So they need to utilize whatever funds they have properly.
Click to expand...

That still doesn't solve the problem of numbers to make up the retirement of 10-11 odd squadrons of MiG 21 / 27 by 2025 or the ones already retired including the MiG -23's .

PAKFA / FGFA , Mk1a , Mk2 (?) , F-16 ( if they happen ) are all nearly a decade away from initial / total induction ( depending on the FA in the aforementioned line up )

That leaves forthcoming tranches of Rafale (whether from Merignac or MII ) and the MKI ( if we opt for more )to make up sheer nos up until 2025 or at least partial replacements for the ones being retired .
 
Guynextdoor said:
Bs, upa finished all the work. All that nda needs to do is sign it. And in 3 years that haven’t done it. 20 billion dollars is not an amount India needs to spend to keep French happy. Fact the deal was the best, despite big talk nda couldn’t get any better and are now screwing around.
Click to expand...

The deal was too expensive, had too many disadvantages and UPA stalled the deal for as long as they could. They left it to the next administration, whether it was them or NDA. Basically, UPA couldn't sign the deal themselves because there was no money, they had singlehandedly screwed up the economy. Otherwise, they would have signed the deal back in 2013. I think you need to look at our GDP growth figures from the time of the shortlist.

The same reason why FGFA has not been signed either.

The Rafale GTG deal is much superior to MMRCA. So follow on procurement can be made in tranches for new versions of the aircraft.
 
_Anonymous_ said:
That still doesn't solve the problem of numbers to make up the retirement of 10-11 odd squadrons of MiG 21 / 27 by 2025 or the ones already retired including the MiG -23's .

PAKFA / FGFA , Mk1a , Mk2 (?) , F-16 ( if they happen ) are all nearly a decade away from initial / total induction ( depending on the FA in the aforementioned line up )

That leaves forthcoming tranches of Rafale (whether from Merignac or MII ) and the MKI ( if we opt for more )to make up sheer nos up until 2025 or at least partial replacements for the ones being retired .
Click to expand...

Nothing can be done in the short term. Our only choice is what we sign over the next 5 years, so we can fix all the holes within 15 years.

We have 200 aircraft on order, and we need to sign up for 200 more before Modi-2 is over.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: _Anonymous_
randomradio said:
The deal was too expensive, had too many disadvantages and UPA stalled the deal for as long as they could. They left it to the next administration, whether it was them or NDA. Basically, UPA couldn't sign the deal themselves because there was no money, they had singlehandedly screwed up the economy. Otherwise, they would have signed the deal back in 2013. I think you need to look at our GDP growth figures from the time of the shortlist.

The same reason why FGFA has not been signed either.

The Rafale GTG deal is much superior to MMRCA. So follow on procurement can be made in tranches for new versions of the aircraft.
Click to expand...

oh it was 'too expensive'? I'm sure NDA has negotiated soon much better and got so much cheaper. Or maybe if money was not wasted on gaumata ambulance, building big statue of Patel in Gujarat worth half a billion dollar etc. we may have had more money. Maybe we should not spend 40 billion building bullet train to UP etc. and actually spend money on important things like defense.
 
Guynextdoor said:
oh it was 'too expensive'? I'm sure NDA has negotiated soon much better and got so much cheaper. Or maybe if money was not wasted on gaumata ambulance, building big statue of Patel in Gujarat worth half a billion dollar etc. we may have had more money. Maybe we should not spend 40 billion building bullet train to UP etc. and actually spend money on important things like defense.
Click to expand...

*yawn*
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom