Democracy Is Losing the Propaganda War
- Thread starter Ginvincible
- Start date
Really???
We are comparing modern day immigration with ancient Roman conquests and 16th century colonisation????
LOL!
So let me see...
You think like Romans and Slavics, immigrants will conquer Europe and America and will assimilate people there? LOL!
Or you believe that immigrants will bring diseases that will wipe out population of UK and USA? Like that of native american tribes?? LOL!
I mean sure! Anti Vaxxers might get wiped out but then that is their own fault. LOL!
Ugh. Nope. Genocide as the word's etymology shows, means KILLING of entire or a part of a race (or more broadly ethnicity, religious group etc).
People are very much capable of dying by themselves too. Loss of food supply, natural disasters, low birth rate, diseases can result in destruction of entire communities of people.
Parsis in India are on the path of destruction due to low birth rate. Are they genocided? Hell NO! They just god damn will not marry and hump each other even after the best efforts of Indian government! Even though they are very rich and very well off.
Canada, for instance, has below replacement rate fertility since 1970s. Are immigrants genociding Canadians? HELL NO!
There are German villages that have/had become ghost towns due to low birthrates over many decades. Did anyone genocided them? HELL NO!
You really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, do you?
Mass immigration definitely fits the point c.
And yes, "immigrants will conquer Europe and America and will assimilate people there". It is already happening.
Again, ask Native Americans what they think about mass immigration.
Bullshit!
This is fertility rate of US, Canada, UK and Australia.
Fertility rates of USA, UK, Canada and Australia have been below 2.2 babies per woman (replacement rate) since 1970s. It fell down even more recently. This happened after invention and popularization of oral contraceptive in 1950s and increased presence of women in workplaces due to second world war. Your women wanted jobs and careers and had a reliable means to prevent pregnancy. No wonder your fertility rate fell!
Any society that gives priority to jobs and career and allows women choice between having kids or having a career will see rapid decrease in fertility. This was NOT a deliberate condition inflicted on you but a CHOICE your women and your society made.
Mass Immigration is happening as a result of lowering of your fertility rate and not a cause of lowering of fertility rate. You are confusing effect with cause.
Native Americans did not face mass immigration. No. They faced colonization, killing of their young ones in church run boarding schools, killing and abduction of their women and outbreak of diseases that they have never faced before and had not natural resistance or means to defend against.
These are two very separate things.
Thats my line. You know absolutely nothing and are completely misrepresenting reality.
Here is the reality. If you COMPLETELY shutdown immigration, your society will collapse. The countries which can not attract immigrants are facing massive issues of not being able to fund the benefits for their aging population.
Think Japan whose economy has been stagnant since 90s. They can not attract immigrants because of language barrier, government policies and social setup which is against immigration. They now have a situation that they can not avoid collapse of the population and workforce. Their economy is stagnant while chinese and US economy grows.
I agree with you on basically everything. I am glad that there is someone else on this forum who hasn't given up on classic liberal principles.
I personally think that the Bank of Japan's negative interest rate policy for the past 20 years had more to do with stagnant growth in Japan rather than the immigration issue.
Japan, among other nations, will definitely face a pension/healthcare crisis as their populations age and demographics collapse. The individual Japanese family has greater wealth to help tide it over versus the average South Korean or Chinese family.
I think Japan will age more gracefully than we expect and will be a pioneer on how we pivot after demographic collapse. Eventually even the US will face this issue as immigration can't be sustained forever... even the fertility rates in the developing world are stabilizing and going under 2. There will come a time where there just aren't that many immigrants.
First of all Democrats needs to prove that they are still democratic party and the government is democratic, because the way they are trying to impeach former elected President of the US shows otherwise. This is not the way how you behave with former POTUS, be it who so ever. There is some respect to that position and democrats are just tarnishing it without any particular evidence.
This will create a political turmoil kind of a situation in US and politics will get so dirty that one day US could become Pakistan like nation, where former leaders are overthrown or arrested without any reason. And this will be very dangerous situation for rest of the world too.
This will create a political turmoil kind of a situation in US and politics will get so dirty that one day US could become Pakistan like nation, where former leaders are overthrown or arrested without any reason. And this will be very dangerous situation for rest of the world too.
And solution for that is not immigration, but doing measures to increase fertility. Specifically rolling back the so-called "progress".
Sacrificing existence on the altar of GDP is just retarded.
There is no real difference between mass immigration and colonization. Colonization is literally mass migration. The only difference you can find is that mass migration is not organized top-down whereas colonization is - but even that is not a hard rule.
And if you think immigrants in Europe aren't doing the exact things you have listed here, I have an aircraft carrier to sell you.
Yes, since 1970s. Since leftism and feminism took over. West is basically doing self-genocide through feminism, equality and mass immigration.Bullshit!
This is fertility rate of US, Canada, UK and Australia.
View attachment 33528
Fertility rates of USA, UK, Canada and Australia have been below 2.2 babies per woman (replacement rate) since 1970s. It fell down even more recently. This happened after invention and popularization of oral contraceptive in 1950s and increased presence of women in workplaces due to second world war. Your women wanted jobs and careers and had a reliable means to prevent pregnancy. No wonder your fertility rate fell!
Any society that gives priority to jobs and career and allows women choice between having kids or having a career will see rapid decrease in fertility. This was NOT a deliberate condition inflicted on you but a CHOICE your women and your society made.
Mass Immigration is happening as a result of lowering of your fertility rate and not a cause of lowering of fertility rate. You are confusing effect with cause.
And who is promoting these policies? Hint hint. Leftists are genocidal by nature, there is no changing that.
In fairness, they are claiming election interference as their main issue with Trump. I agree that all the random side cases do seem like trying to use the judiciary to quash opposition. The messaging behind all these cases has been convoluted and I think Democrats haven't really convinced a lot of people that they aren't just throwing whatever they can find on Trump and see what sticks. It's not a good look no matter how legitimate the offences Trump committed are.
At least with the Stormy Daniel's case a lot of media have started calling it "Trump's hush money trial" which is a lot easier for people to digest rather than minutia of campaign finance laws.
We'll find out if Presidents have full immunity for their actions soon enough. It's going through the Supreme Court literally this month.
Bullshit!
This is fertility rate of US, Canada, UK and Australia.
View attachment 33528
Fertility rates of USA, UK, Canada and Australia have been below 2.2 babies per woman (replacement rate) since 1970s. It fell down even more recently. This happened after invention and popularization of oral contraceptive in 1950s and increased presence of women in workplaces due to second world war. Your women wanted jobs and careers and had a reliable means to prevent pregnancy. No wonder your fertility rate fell!
Any society that gives priority to jobs and career and allows women choice between having kids or having a career will see rapid decrease in fertility. This was NOT a deliberate condition inflicted on you but a CHOICE your women and your society made.
Mass Immigration is happening as a result of lowering of your fertility rate and not a cause of lowering of fertility rate. You are confusing effect with cause.
You really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, do you?
Mass immigration definitely fits the point c.
And yes, "immigrants will conquer Europe and America and will assimilate people there". It is already happening.
Again, ask Native Americans what they think about mass immigration.
There's nothing wrong with immigration per se, but the immigrants need to be vetted before entry.
What's happening in the US and EU is unsustainable, this is the case even if India with its massive population was receiving the same amount of immigration. Different story that we don't have money or jobs, just pointing out that all these immigrants will further overpopulate cities and bring services crashing down. It's not like they will go to rural areas and become farmers.
And due to the lack of vetting, really dangerous people have come into the US and EU.
There's a cultural issue too. For example, India sees more internal migration than there are people in the US and EU, something like 400-500 million people. But the migrants are of similar culture. Furthermore, internal security is taken very seriously in India. And it's two-pronged. While security forces have draconian laws to deal with troublemakers, like POTA, our criminal underworld also does not allow foreigners to set up shop in India. So migrants have no choice but to live clean lives, at best they are into petty crimes or at the lower rungs of crime. So when Indians say migrants are not a problem, it is not a problem only for us.
The alternative is to treat migrants as second or third class citizens, like in the ME. Then you can have as many as you want. Basically decently paid but abused slave labor.
In the US and EU, migrants are setting up new criminal organizations while lawmakers are simultaneously weakening internal security. Cities are overcrowded, the housing market is dying, crime is on the rise etc. So immigration is not working out there.
Anyway, immigration has nothing to do with conservatism or liberalism. The only thing that matters is common sense. If immigration is handled without common sense, then that society is going to doom itself.
Bullshit!
This is fertility rate of US, Canada, UK and Australia.
View attachment 33528
Fertility rates of USA, UK, Canada and Australia have been below 2.2 babies per woman (replacement rate) since 1970s. It fell down even more recently. This happened after invention and popularization of oral contraceptive in 1950s and increased presence of women in workplaces due to second world war. Your women wanted jobs and careers and had a reliable means to prevent pregnancy. No wonder your fertility rate fell!
Any society that gives priority to jobs and career and allows women choice between having kids or having a career will see rapid decrease in fertility. This was NOT a deliberate condition inflicted on you but a CHOICE your women and your society made.
Mass Immigration is happening as a result of lowering of your fertility rate and not a cause of lowering of fertility rate. You are confusing effect with cause.
It's a universal issue. Even India with no money is now below replaceable level. The only rich democracy that's managed to have a birth level above replacement is Israel. But then they are orthodox about marriage. Lowered birth rates have a lot to do with increased access to healthcare and abortion. For example, China had 9 million babies last year, but 23 million abortions.
The US is rapidly moving towards communism. We will know in November if the West can be saved or not. Once the US falls, the EU will follow.
@Domobran7 is correct.
Genocide doesn't necessarily mean killing.
Unchecked population transfers are a form of genocide. It's called ethnocide.
For example, Pakistan's transfer of Sunnis to Shia majority PoK, the Sinicization of Xinjiang and Tibet, where small minorities are subjected to unchecked migration and the minorities are eliminated from the local discourse. The emigration of Kashmiri Pandits from Kashmir was a genocide too.
The entire Israel-Palestine situation is happening because the Jews entered the country in endless numbers after WW2.
The US/EU situation is weird because they are doing it to themselves. While the numbers are small relative to the population, the numbers are still far too big for cities to handle. So there's quite a bit of localized population displacement happening as parts of the cities are ghettoizing and are becoming no-go zones.
Actually its not as much as abortion as easy access to contraceptives. 1960s pills were just the beginning. Now they have injections which can make a woman infertile for a month. Contraceptives are much cheaper and less painful way to deal with unwanted pregnancy -- basically avoiding it fully.
Humans like all animals have a very strong urge to reproduce. This shows up in humans as sex drive. Contraceptives kind of short circuits that. You still get to enjoy sex drive with no kids involved.
Too bad, it f4cks up demographics.
Oh and in India, you can actually get condoms and pills for free. Pretty easily. Many government run hospitals give them out because they cannt sell them elsewhere anyways.
Demographic change is NOT termed as genocide. Mass migration of other communities in an area is NOT termed as genocide.
However forceful eviction of people from their homes and homeland can be termed as genocide.
For instance, mass migration of north Indians have happened in major south indian cities causing demographic change over there. Bangalore has a massive north Indian population presence now, which was not the case in 1960s or 70s. This caused tensions in those places because many people felt that their language is being replaced and their culture is being diluted due to presence of a different north indian culture and languages.
Were North Indians ethnociding or genociding local bangloreans? I doubt anyone will term it that.
Contrast this with Xinjiang where not only people from other parts of China were moved but also (and more importantly) Chinese government imposed terms on locals to reduce reproduction, moved their kids away from the parents and forced their women to not marry among the their community.
These two things are NOT same. Ethnocide and Genocide is a deliberate act to wipe out or attempt to wipe out an ethinicity or a community.
Demographic Change is a deliberate or non-deliberate change in proportion of ethnicities or communities in a population.
One is a crime against humanity.
Other may be just an effect of other realities. Like increase in opportunity in a place or labour shortage etc.
Good God!
There are many countries which are highly right wing but have seen same phenomenon. Singapore and UAE come to mind. While it is true that the countries with more female liberties have more uptake of contraceptives and lesser fertility rate, it is a misrepresentation to say that there is some leftist conspiracy to replace you folks with migrants!
Its actually much simpler. You have a country which has business friendly rules (most of developed world). You have women who now have access to contraceptives. You have women who are either in workforce or preparing to go into workforce. You have low fertility rate. You have to get migrant workers because your population is too old to work or to have babies.
No evil left wing conspiracy required!
India's birth rate started falling long before condoms and pills reached the Indian masses. TFR was 15-20 during independence and had dropped down to 4 by the 90s. In India, condoms and pills are useless even today. Family planning is almost entirely centered around female sterilization, but after enough births are achieved by the individual. So condom use is like 5% of men, pills are at 4% for women, but female sterilization is around 40%. So almost half our women are already sterile.
This is where things diverge. What's happening within India is legal migration. Why the difference? Because it does not really change the voter base, it just shifts it a little. While there is some divergence in culture, it's not an insurmountable hurdle. The only real change is the drop in labor costs, but due to economic growth, even wages are increasing, so the effect is not felt.
But what's happening in the US and EU is illegal migration, where the demographic change is affecting voter base adversely. It even impacts the labor base, where wages are falling, while cost of living is increasing.
So the difference between the two is in Bangalore we do not see a significant fall in quality of life, whereas the US and EU are seeing significant drops.
Another big problem, which is far bigger than what India is facing, is skill. Migrants into Bangalore are largely educated or have some skill that provides employment. But migrants into the US and EU have absolutely no serious education or skills that can help them integrate into the local economy like a previous generation could have when the US and EU had much lower cost of living. They also don't speak the same language or share the same culture. So the immigrants here are extremely parasitic.
And to make things worse, immigrants are becoming dependent on welfare programs that are supposed to be given to citizens, and leftist politicians are encouraging it because they have their own agenda. Hell, they are even pushing to give them voting rights.
So the immigration is based on an agenda, it's not due to economic stagnation.