Defence Budget Allocation : News & Discussions

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,007
7,643
India

Muahahahahaha


Sign of things to come. I'm betting no agreement for Mk1a & Super Sukhoi this year .

@randomradio

My money is on the Mk1A happening this year. It's an indigenous program and quite critical to the HAL, also the IAF. It's not an expensive program considering the delivery schedule.

Super Sukhoi isn't an expensive program in terms of R&D, and the main expenses will happen 2-3 years after contract signature, when the upgrade related stuff needs to be ordered, and most of that will be Indian. Plus most of the work will be done in India. So it's a significantly large indigenous program. A lot of other indigenous aerospace programs are also linked to it. But I don't think it's possible to sign the contract even this year, considering they haven't yet decided on everything, apparently.

I believe all the SPM tenders will be delayed again. The third carrier program will be killed for now as well. Direct import programs may either get delayed or killed, like the Athos artillery gun, NASAMS II (already overpriced), more P-8Is, American UCAVs etc. Some naval ships were supposed to be imported, so those will likely get pushed back as well. The LHD tender will get killed. The T-90MS deal could get delayed as well. Two armoured unit tenders could also be delayed. Also, the navy's SRSAM imports. Plenty of targets to delay or kill.

Anyway, this is an Ajai Shukla article, so pinch of salt.
 

Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
Moderator
Dec 2, 2017
2,052
2,628
United States
My money is on the Mk1A happening this year. It's an indigenous program and quite critical to the HAL, also the IAF. It's not an expensive program considering the delivery schedule.

Super Sukhoi isn't an expensive program in terms of R&D, and the main expenses will happen 2-3 years after contract signature, when the upgrade related stuff needs to be ordered, and most of that will be Indian. Plus most of the work will be done in India. So it's a significantly large indigenous program. A lot of other indigenous aerospace programs are also linked to it. But I don't think it's possible to sign the contract even this year, considering they haven't yet decided on everything, apparently.

I believe all the SPM tenders will be delayed again. The third carrier program will be killed for now as well. Direct import programs may either get delayed or killed, like the Athos artillery gun, NASAMS II (already overpriced), more P-8Is, American UCAVs etc. Some naval ships were supposed to be imported, so those will likely get pushed back as well. The LHD tender will get killed. The T-90MS deal could get delayed as well. Two armoured unit tenders could also be delayed. Also, the navy's SRSAM imports. Plenty of targets to delay or kill.

Anyway, this is an Ajai Shukla article, so pinch of salt.
Given this government has chosen to nominate the TV spokesperson and now Rajnath Singh as defence ministers, all the while Gen V.K Singh is Minister of state for roads and Highways, it shows how far thier heads are up the horse's *censored*.

Zero Expectation on defense from NDA.
UPA was spineless with institutional inaction.
NDA II is just spectacularly Moronic.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Tatvamasi

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
13,760
9,826
Mumbai
Given this government has chosen to nominate the TV spokesperson and now Rajnath Singh as defence ministers, all the while Gen V.K Singh is Minister of state for roads and Highways, it shows how far thier heads are up the horse's *censored*.

Zero Expectation on defense from NDA.
UPA was spineless with institutional inaction.
NDA II is just spectacularly Moronic.
I think it's at times like these you can feel the loss of MP. Though in all fairness while he was around, he got a lot of stick from guys over here too.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,007
7,643
India
Given this government has chosen to nominate the TV spokesperson and now Rajnath Singh as defence ministers, all the while Gen V.K Singh is Minister of state for roads and Highways, it shows how far thier heads are up the horse's *censored*.

Zero Expectation on defense from NDA.
UPA was spineless with institutional inaction.
NDA II is just spectacularly Moronic.

I find the new govt a bit miserly on defence spending, but doing an overall way better job than the UPA.

Plenty of reforms have been done, like the setting up of CDS, putting OFB in its place. And a lot of important defence deals have been signed. Some of them were quite revolutionary, like allowing the army to buy attack helicopters. Indigenisation has been given the most amount of importance, which is why we now import only 30-35% of our defence needs, compared to 70% in 2014. So even if spending appears to have not grown a lot, the forces have been buying far more equipment instead, allowing more bang for the buck.

As for being miserly with respect to spending, it's only temporary. The main objective is to get the economy going at a higher gear so that the govt can aim for a larger defence budget at a later date. In case of emergencies, adding a bit more to the defence kitty isn't such a big deal.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: JustCurious

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
13,760
9,826
Mumbai
Its HAL, they will just defer payments (Already $3 billion pending). Sukhoi MLU will take 2-3 years to finalize. Remember 2023 is the magic year. ;)
It's 2022 & it's official. Punch in 2022 in the search engine here & you'd hit pay dirt. Nearly 99% of the search would result in posts by randomradio. Hell even if you were to punch in 2022 in the google search engine, you'd be directed to randomradio's posts in Strategic Front. I think you ought to make him this forum's brand ambassador with a logo, sorry THE LOGO, yes, you're right - 2022.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Gautam

Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
Moderator
Dec 2, 2017
2,052
2,628
United States
I think it's at times like these you can feel the loss of MP. Though in all fairness while he was around, he got a lot of stick from guys over here too.
I wasn't sure about Parrikar at the start, honestly, I was skeptical about the new admin, but with Parrikars mediation and problem solving for LCA Mk1 mod then referred to as 1P, It seemed like things were on track. He really did not get enough seat time to make substantial changes.
 

Milspec

सर्वदा शक्तिशाली; सर्वत्र विजय
Moderator
Dec 2, 2017
2,052
2,628
United States
I find the new govt a bit miserly on defence spending, but doing an overall way better job than the UPA.

Plenty of reforms have been done, like the setting up of CDS, putting OFB in its place. And a lot of important defence deals have been signed. Some of them were quite revolutionary, like allowing the army to buy attack helicopters. Indigenisation has been given the most amount of importance, which is why we now import only 30-35% of our defence needs, compared to 70% in 2014. So even if spending appears to have not grown a lot, the forces have been buying far more equipment instead, allowing more bang for the buck.

As for being miserly with respect to spending, it's only temporary. The main objective is to get the economy going at a higher gear so that the govt can aim for a larger defence budget at a later date. In case of emergencies, adding a bit more to the defence kitty isn't such a big deal.

Good to hear that;

So what has changed exactly? How many orders for Indigenous products have been placed/delivered by this dispensation?
LCH
LCAMk1A
LCAMkII
Arjun
Pinaka II
Dhanush
ATAGS

What has happened to MMRCAII, MRTA, MARS-Refuelling tankers, mii c295?
 

Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,999
8,148
Tripura, NE, India
Govt to make payments to foreign vendors, tells defence PSUs to restart work

By MANU PUBBY
ET Bureau | Apr 30, 2020, 08.28 AM IST
1588229004222.png

File Photo : HAL Tejas MK1

NEW DELHI: India will honour payments for ongoing defence procurements to be made to foreign vendors but new acquisitions could get slightly delayed as the government has put in place several expense limitations, even as plans are being put in place to resume operations by defence public sector units (PSU).

The lockdown and its economic toll will not impact committed liabilities that have been budgeted for the armed forces for programs like the Rafale fighter jet deal and the S400 air defence systems, sources told ET.

India is also looking at quickly ramping up local defence production, with defence minister Rajnath Singh directing all PSUs to prepare contingency plans for resumption of operations and make up for lost working time at the earliest.

While there is a fear that PSUs and government-owned shipyards that have ongoing programs could see delayed payments because of the restrictions, the minister has said that PSUs and the private defence industry could "play a major role in the economic revival" of the nation.

On future procurements that have been in the pipeline and were expected to be signed in the coming weeks, sources said, there could be some delays but there are no indications yet that the overall budget would be curtailed for necessary purchases. Among the programs that were expected to be inked in the coming months was the Rs 38,000 crore project to build 83 Tejas Mk1A aircraft by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. This program has been cleared by the defence ministry but still awaits a nod from the Cabinet Committee on Security.

Govt to make payments to foreign vendors, tells defence PSUs to restart work
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,007
7,643
India
Good to hear that;

So what has changed exactly? How many orders for Indigenous products have been placed/delivered by this dispensation?
LCH
LCAMk1A
LCAMkII
Arjun
Pinaka II
Dhanush
ATAGS

What has happened to MMRCAII, MRTA, MARS-Refuelling tankers, mii c295?

Those are only a small number of examples. There are so many that did go through. The biggest one being the SSNs. The S5 class SSBNs were also approved under Modi. As many as 7 frigates. And that's just the navy. For most of the stuff you named, they are yet to finish development.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustCurious

Ankit Kumar

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
2,317
2,110
Bangalore
The issue of budgeting of the RR operating in J&K & that of the AR under operational command of the IA are the only 2 heads which should technically come under the HM. Other than that all CAPFs including the BSF, CRPF , ITBP, SSB, etc are under the HM whose expenditure is & should be accounted for under that head.
Its time we rationalise.

In CAPFs join BSF, SSB and ITBP in one entity. Bring Indian Coast Guard under Home Ministry.

Remove duplication of all kinds. Create a dedicated air wing for CAPFs.

Make State governments invest in state armed police corps for dedicated anti terror/rescue ops and national guard duties if required.

Cut down non combat manpower.
 

Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
4,447
7,198
Bangalore
Its time we rationalise.

In CAPFs join BSF, SSB and ITBP in one entity. Bring Indian Coast Guard under Home Ministry.

Remove duplication of all kinds. Create a dedicated air wing for CAPFs.

Make State governments invest in state armed police corps for dedicated anti terror/rescue ops and national guard duties if required.

Cut down non combat manpower.
A separate officer cadre is necessary. Unifying don't make any sense since responsibilities are vastly different.

States do have armed state police corps.

 

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
357
406
Canada
While BSF, ITBP are technically army and can fight when needed, I would say bring them under army while retaining the same function. That could actually free some army resources in J&K and use them to raise mountain strike corps. Just give the same equipment to BSF, AR, ITBP the ones given to army. In that sense all resources are shared gives better admin management too.
Only CRPF, CISF,SSB and some other orgs should be under HM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JustCurious

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
13,760
9,826
Mumbai
Aside from the fact that in a year's time, we'd be in the magical year, yessir you've guessed it right, 2022 , where our budget is going to far far exceed our needs & wants & some of the most cutting edge projects materialise while others are conceived & some others get the go ahead, let's take a moment to see what this year's modest offering would be like , what does it fetch us but more importantly what's the alternative.

Statutory Warning : This is a realistic assessment.


 
  • Haha
Reactions: JustCurious

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,007
7,643
India
So a "realistic assessment" saying we should disband a large chunk of our forces and then buy drones?

If that's one's idea of realism, then the military obviously haven't got a clue how to run their stuff.

Sorry, but the military will keep doing what they have already been doing and not get taken in by ignorants no matter where they are from.

There is a plan for modernisation that goes completely contrary to the expectations of the writer, and it does not rely on haphazard terms like "realistic assessments" but on "reality" itself.

If the military can't afford something now, then they will delay the purchase to the next year or the year after that. But they know what they want and they need what they want in order to do what they need to. Ignorants can't change such facts to suit their interests.