Dassault Rafale - Updates and Discussion

[Bon Plan]

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Rafale : pourquoi Paris refuse de livrer le code source à l'Inde

L'Inde veut modifier ses Rafale seule. La France refuse. Derrière ce blocage à 40 Md$, trois logiciels militaires et la crainte d'un accès russe aux secrets de l'avion.

lessentieldeleco.fr

"Dassault et ses partenaires ont développé ces trois systèmes sur plusieurs décennies. Le ministère français des Armées les traite comme relevant de la sécurité nationale, indépendamment de tout enjeu commercial. HAL a produit plus de 220 Su-30MKI sous licence à Nashik. L’Inde entretient avec Moscou des liens de défense qui précèdent de loin le programme Rafale, et que ce contrat ne dissoudra pas."

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Dassault and its partners developed these three systems (radar, Spectra, EMTI) over several decades. The French Ministry of the Armed Forces treats them as matters of national security, independent of any commercial considerations. HAL has produced more than 220 Su-30MKIs under license in Nashik. India maintains defense ties with Moscow that predate the Rafale program, and this contract will not sever them.

 

[Bon Plan]

France is going broke very fast. Their neo colonial empire in Africa has dissolved. Their social sector spending has ballooned.

Our so called colonial empire vanished 60 years agor, more or less. so....
Social spending : if we succed halting the arrival of totally unskilled & uneducated people from this so called colonal empire with a new President in 2027, we may halt that (80% of the retired pensions sent in Algeria are due to dead people... Source french senate study).

After all, Greece is now safe after a 10 years economical purge. France will follow.

 

[Tamilan57]

Our so called colonial empire vanished 60 years agor, more or less. so....
Social spending : if we succed halting the arrival of totally unskilled & uneducated people from this so called colonal empire with a new President in 2027, we may halt that (80% of the retired pensions sent in Algeria are due to dead people... Source french senate study).

After all, Greece is now safe after a 10 years economical purge. France will follow.

Greece is now safe? I thought Greece is still facing the brunt of economic crisis.

 

[Tamilan57]

France is going broke very fast. Their neo colonial empire in Africa has dissolved. Their social sector spending has ballooned. Their productivity is falling along with their exports & then there's their dependency on China which they can't increase much for obvious reasons . To top it all comes the energy crises first in Ukraine & now in the ME.

If & when there's a resumption of hostilities with Russia after the current one ends up in s CF , I foresee Russia going up against a NATO minus the US , around the same time China clashes with the US over Taiwan , where in the European theatre , France will have to do the heavy lifting since the armed forces of Germany & UK are in various stages of dysfunction.

Whatever the outcome of that war the economies of all countries involved will go for a toss. While this would be a worldwide phenomenon , some geographies & nations would be disproportionately affected as compared to others. EU falls in the latter category .

It's not as if the government in Paris is unaware of these scenarios , hence the offer to establish a line in India etc which they're making out as a special one time grand concession.

Wonder if our suits in South Block have war gamed such scenarios. Maybe they have but here the system runs them instead of them running the system which means we won't be able to capitalise much or at all on le Francais predicament even if we're aware of it .

That's our tragedy.

Russia is not going to invade any NATO or EU country for another 15 years. Even after that, I don't see Russia harboring ambitions to invade any EU country. I definitely see Russia getting involved in caucasus countries (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia) after 15 years. kazakhstan could also be a target after 15 years.

If Russia somehow gets involved with any EU country, it would have been because EU forced their hand by going after Russia. Basically, EU has to start the war with Russia.

Yeah, France is in a quagmire economically. Hopefully, Indian gets what it needs from Rafale orders. 30-50 percent TOT on manufacturing and ICD for weapons integration at the very least.

 

[babablacksheep]

Russia is not going to invade any NATO or EU country for another 15 years. Even after that, I don't see Russia harboring ambitions to invade any EU country. I definitely see Russia getting involved in caucasus countries (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia) after 15 years. kazakhstan could also be a target after 15 years.

If Russia somehow gets involved with any EU country, it would have been because EU forced their hand by going after Russia. Basically, EU has to start the war with Russia.

Yeah, France is in a quagmire economically. Hopefully, Indian gets what it needs from Rafale orders. 30-50 percent TOT on manufacturing and ICD for weapons integration at the very least.

After ukraine war ends, I can see russia trying some misadventures with the Baltic States to test nato response

 

[_Anonymous_]

Our so called colonial empire vanished 60 years agor, more or less. so....

Your colonial empire didn't exactly vanish , it was turned into a neo colonial empire.

CFA franc - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

France’s Colonial Legacy and the Modern Troubles of the Sahel

The Sahel is one of the most unstable regions in the world, where terrorist groups, military coups, humanitarian disasters, and foreign intervention

journal-neo.su

Social spending : if we succed halting the arrival of totally unskilled & uneducated people from this so called colonal empire with a new President in 2027, we may halt that (80% of the retired pensions sent in Algeria are due to dead people... Source french senate study).

After all, Greece is now safe after a 10 years economical purge. France will follow.

You could also add if you spend less on defence you can have a more healthier budget . To that I'd also add less contribution to Ukraine , more flow of Russian Oil & Natural Gas etc .

But we both know that's not happening nor is immigration - legal or illegal going to come to a halt anytime soon. For that to happen you must do what KSA did recently .

When they were faced with refugees from Eritrea & Ethiopia fleeing war & famine transiting across the Red Sea to land on the coasts & / or thru Yemen into Saudi Arabia the border guards there simply opened fire & killed any unknown number of these refugees.

We don't even have the estimates of the casualties. The message went home. The refugees began to seek other lands.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Russia is not going to invade any NATO or EU country for another 15 years. Even after that, I don't see Russia harboring ambitions to invade any EU country.

I suggest you read up on Russian history especially the 3 massive invasions they've faced from the west beginning mid to late 18th century first from Sweden , then in the early 19th century from France & finally ~ mid 20th century from Germany to understand the reason the Russians are so paranoid about creating a buffer which is what the Warsaw Pact was all about.

And how once the USSR & the entire Warsaw Pact was dissolved as NATO kept spreading eastwards it added to the paranoia in Moscow. Why do you think Russia started the war in Ukraine & irrespective the personal popularity Putin enjoys why's it his policy of war in Ukraine enjoy near universal support from his fellow Russians ?

I definitely see Russia getting involved in caucasus countries (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia) after 15 years. kazakhstan could also be a target after 15 years.

Why do you suppose this to be the case ?

If Russia somehow gets involved with any EU country, it would have been because EU forced their hand by going after Russia. Basically, EU has to start the war with Russia.

If the war in Ukraine ends in a CF that's basically a stalemate. Russia ends up pretty much with what it began in 2014 when it annexed the Crimea . Ukraine believes it has to take back the territory it lost & since it has withstood Russian offensive for the past 4 years it believes it has the wherewithal to achieve its goals if not now then in the near future .

This CF then as & when it comes will merely serve the purpose of being what WW-1 was to WW-2 which is to say a catalyst since some key issues from the previous war were unresolved.

As an aside when WW-2 ended the first thing the allies did was not just dismantle the German state but they began with Prussia the brain & heart behind German expansionism & militarism - the key state behind German unification.

 

[randomradio]

Russia is not going to invade any NATO or EU country for another 15 years. Even after that, I don't see Russia harboring ambitions to invade any EU country. I definitely see Russia getting involved in caucasus countries (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia) after 15 years. kazakhstan could also be a target after 15 years.

If Russia somehow gets involved with any EU country, it would have been because EU forced their hand by going after Russia. Basically, EU has to start the war with Russia.

Russia's potential is to use little green men in the Baltics at best. But yeah, anything more serious has to happen from the European side. I think the Europeans won't have the stomach for that.

Things will move a lot sooner than 15 years in the Caucasus. But they will want to keep their buffer with Turkey.

The Russians will have to manage relations with Central Asia for many decades alongside retaining Mongolia as a buffer state. India can help with both, as both countries have the goal of keeping China out. We built a refinery in Mongolia to cut their dependency on China for example. INSTC helps. Chabahar needs to be restarted. And we definitely need to retake PoK for direct access.

The next big threat in 15 years is from Manchuria China. Relations will change as and when China's gas dependency is eliminated. Maybe 2050+.

 

[Bon Plan]

Greece is now safe? I thought Greece is still facing the brunt of economic crisis.

Safe? may be not. But in a far better shape than 10 years ago. At least they made reforms.

Your colonial empire didn't exactly vanish , it was turned into a neo colonial empire.

No. It is over.
Even our President said it next week.
Now Africa is in chinese, russians, turkish... hands. I wish africa the best future possible, but think it will be worst.

 

[lmaoxd]

Now Africa is in chinese, russians, turkish... hands. I wish africa the best future possible, but think it will be worst.

Mate i dont think it can get a lot worse than literal aparthied or genocide.

 

[Tamilan57]

Safe? may be not. But in a far better shape than 10 years ago. At least they made reforms.

No. It is over.
Even our President said it next week.
Now Africa is in chinese, russians, turkish... hands. I wish africa the best future possible, but think it will be worst.

China is only there for economic reasons. Any military outfit/separatists/tourists that disrupts public order affects Chinese trade. At worst, all they do is debt trap to gain ownership of ports, airports, mines that they helped build.

Russia does provide military support to the official military of many African countries including the Sahel region. Their objective is to sell weapons and recruit poor African soldiers in the Russo-Ukraine war. They also gain influence in African countries under the garb of neo-colonialism.

Turkey hasa huge influence in muslim horn countries like somalia. That's about it. Their objective is geostrategic. Somalia-Turkey Axis gives them some influence in red sea. This needs further investigation.

IMO, there is no neo-colonialism from these countries especially China and Russia.

Of course, there is a huge jihad/ISIS problem in West Africa and Sahel countries. I don't think Russia or China created/support these outfits.

 

[Bon Plan]

Mate i dont think it can get a lot worse than literal aparthied or genocide.

Just before leaving Africa we were fighting islamists terrorists.
Now Wager help them....
If you find it's better, good luck.

 

[lmaoxd]

Just before leaving Africa we were fighting islamists terrorists.
Now Wager help them....
If you find it's better, good luck.

I dont think its going to get a lot better but its certainly not going to get so much worse when the floor has alr been lowered to the bedrock. But It could be wrong so lets see.

 

[Bon Plan]

I dont think its going to get a lot better but its certainly not going to get so much worse when the floor has alr been lowered to the bedrock. But It could be wrong so lets see.

Never forget that when France took te then Algeria, it was paved of tribes only, without any infrastructure.
We built all the hospitals, all the roads, all the cities, all the harbours we left in 1962. Some say that today few has changed since....