Eh even that statement doesn't necessarily say it was lost. It could have been just damaged. And maybe the damage was repairable..
Dassault Rafale - Updates and Discussion
- Thread starter Domobran7
- Start date
The last I heard, we're most definitely negotiating for "off-the-shelf" Rafale purchase of 2-3 squadrons. But the catch is that even these Rafales would be manufactured either completely in India or primarily "in India". Go figureSo this means that India is NOT trying to buy any Rafale off the shelf
And we are only asking for Missiles and Bombs
So IAF has no urgency to get back its lost Rafale
By the way if Any Secret deal is made for 1 Rafale, how soon can we get it
@Herciv posted the statement of French defence minister(IIRC), in which the French DM accepted that one Rafale was most definitely lost. The latest report is saying that it was shot down by Indian assets in a friendly fire and not by Pak.
The last I heard, we're most definitely negotiating for "off-the-shelf" Rafale purchase of 2-3 squadrons. But the catch is that even these Rafales would be manufactured either completely in India or primarily "in India". Go figure
More than anything else , if this is true , it also signifies the Rafales are not fully integrated to the IACCS , 3 years after the last Rafale was delivered .
Not a good sign at all.
One Rafale was definitely lost but the cause was not known. We knew that it had defeated all PL-15s. So speculation was that perhaps it was enemy SAM which did it. But this "fratricide" thing that is coming out is even more serious. Last thing I would like to hear is that Su-30 MKI or S-400 shot down Rafale in friendly fire
It would also mean Pak and Chinese weapons are useless and our weapons are capable.
we did not loose any Rafale to enemy action on 7th May.One Rafale was definitely lost but the cause was not known. We knew that it had defeated all PL-15s. So speculation was that perhaps it was enemy SAM which did it. But this "fratricide" thing that is coming out is even more serious. Last thing I would like to hear is that Su-30 MKI or S-400 shot down Rafale in friendly fire
But we did lose one Rafale on 7th morning. Even Eric Trappier has admitted that one Rafale was lost because of technical snag:
No Rafale Shot Down in Op Sindoor, Says Dassault CEO
Dassault CEO confirms India didn’t lose Rafales in Op Sindoor; blames technical glitch for one non-combat jet incident.
thedailyguardian.com
PROVE IT !
on pak forum our life is hard.....
If AUKUS was half as good than its public relations team, you will received SSN in 2035.....
The kangarroo jumps higher, for .... nothing. CUCKOLD is the Kangaroo.
he is wrong. It was a normal loss. Pls do not believe any bullshit being spread about Rafale. We are going to order more of them. I critisised Rafale for lack of multiple long range weapns and this will hurt future sales of Rafale including present sales if they insist on only French weapons on Rafale.But we did lose one Rafale on 7th morning. Even Eric Trappier has admitted that one Rafale was lost because of technical snag:
No Rafale Shot Down in Op Sindoor, Says Dassault CEO
Dassault CEO confirms India didn’t lose Rafales in Op Sindoor; blames technical glitch for one non-combat jet incident.
I have always believed that more Rafales are coming(36-54 more as G2G deal in F4 guise and later 114 F5s as MRFA). Hopefully DA allows us to integrate more weapons of our choice otherwise we may not order anymore of it.
It was said from the beginning that ASTRA and SPICE would be integrated as part of the GtoG deal. Why things may become different ?
Hammer was only purchased, after the main deal, as a stop gap measure.
The Rafales of the Greek air forces targeted by an act of Chinese espionage?
In Tanagra, north of Athens, four Chinese nationals were arrested after photographing Rafales stationed at the Greek air base. Two men, a woman and a young adult were spotted near the Hellenic Aerospace Industry facility. Despite orders from security personnel, they continued their shots from a bridge near the base.
The military police quickly intervened. Law enforcement has discovered a large number of photos, including detailed images of aircraft and sensitive infrastructure. The matter is taken very seriously. Intelligence services are seeking to determine whether this is a simple incident or a more organized information gathering operation.
This episode comes as Greece has just completed the creation of its Rafale squadron at the beginning of 2025, in record time. Twenty-four aircraft, armed with Meteor, SCALP and Exocet missiles, now reinforce Greek air superiority against Turkey. The Tanagra base, the heart of this rise in power, is becoming a de facto strategic nerve center.
The Chinese are simply Obsessed with Rafales
There was an interview with a French guy where he said Indians and Chinese know how to make rockets but they don't know how to make good fighter jets, fighter jet technology is very hard. We didnt care about that interview but from what I have heard and seen from many cheenis their feewlings got hurt by that interview lololol. So that's why they are jumping up like monkeys on the Rafale crashing.
Yikes bad report for Rafael. Got this from another forum.
key points in the report:
"The Future of Air Superiority" by Adrien Gorremans (Ifri, 2025) directly addresses the role of Rafale and non-stealth 4th generation aircraft in a modern air combat environment dominated by stealth fighters and advanced surface-to-air threats.
To keep Rafale relevant in modern high-intensity warfare, the report suggests:
The report asserts the following
Current Rafale F4 lacks
Finally, SEAD using HAMMER is a one way trip unless the Rafale is able to use terrain features (mountains / valley) to get close enough to enemy AD undetected.
Here is the URL for English translation.
file:///C:/Users/hewho/Downloads/ifri_gorremans_avenir_superiorite_aerienne_2025.fr.en%20(1).pdf
@Optimist
All I've heard from Rafale fanboys in here is the Rafale is good enough to take on the J-20 and a competitor to the F-35 well we can finally put this BS claim to bed once and for all thanks to this French report shotting down the hype of this fighter from French in here.
key points in the report:
- Lack of stealth (VLO) is a key handicap. French forces may be relegated to a supporting role in coalitions, relying on allies with stealth fighters.
- The Rafale struggles against 5th-gen stealth fighters in exercises; its sensors are insufficient for parity
- only ~30 of ~ 200 Rafales would be available for sustained high-intensity combat
"The Future of Air Superiority" by Adrien Gorremans (Ifri, 2025) directly addresses the role of Rafale and non-stealth 4th generation aircraft in a modern air combat environment dominated by stealth fighters and advanced surface-to-air threats.
- France’s air power (built around the Rafale) is optimized for nuclear deterrence and homeland air defense.
- In high-intensity coalition warfare, Rafale-based air forces face serious limitations, particularly:
- Lack of radar stealth
- No organic SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) capabilities
- Limited fleet size and munitions stockpiles
- Rafale may struggle against 5th gen stealth aircraft in direct air-to-air engagements.
- Electronic warfare, sensor fusion, and networked operations are now key — areas where platform-centric fighters like Rafale may fall behind if not modernized
To keep Rafale relevant in modern high-intensity warfare, the report suggests:
- Upgrade Rafale's mission systems and munitions
- Integrate it into a distributed sensor/weapons network (not relying on Rafale alone)
- Invest in complementary systems: drones, standoff munitions, and cooperative SEAD tools
- Reserve high-end stealth assets for essential missions, using Rafale in mixed-force roles (Hi-Lo mix)
The report asserts the following
Current Rafale F4 lacks
- Wide-band radar targeting and geo-location
- Real-time emitter mapping
- Full electronic support measures (ESM) suite needed for SEAD coordination
- AGM-88 HARM / AARGM
- MALD decoys (Miniature Air-Launched Decoy)
- LOCAAS or loitering SEAD drones
- Towed decoy.
- dedicated trained SEAD units like Wild Weasels
Finally, SEAD using HAMMER is a one way trip unless the Rafale is able to use terrain features (mountains / valley) to get close enough to enemy AD undetected.
Bottom Line
https://www.ifri.org/sites/default/files/2025-01/ifri_gorremans_avenir_superiorite_aerienne_2025.pdf
Here is the URL for English translation.
file:///C:/Users/hewho/Downloads/ifri_gorremans_avenir_superiorite_aerienne_2025.fr.en%20(1).pdf
@Optimist
All I've heard from Rafale fanboys in here is the Rafale is good enough to take on the J-20 and a competitor to the F-35 well we can finally put this BS claim to bed once and for all thanks to this French report shotting down the hype of this fighter from French in here.
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Yikes bad report for 5gen. Got this from Kerala Tourism agencies.
key points in the report:
key points in the report:
- Lack of availibilty (MC) is a key handicap. 5gen forces may be relegated to a one day role in coalitions, relying on allies with every day fighters.
- The 5th-gen stealth fighters struggles against Rafale in deployment; its availibilty are insufficient for parity
- F-35 would be available for only 7,5 hour / month and then totally absent in high-intensity wars
- F-35 arer simply too expensive and unsustainable
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The brief summary of the report (Overall) - Summarized by Claude. It is in french so take it for what you will.
Key Aspects and Summary of "L'avenir de la supériorité aérienne"
Key Aspects
1. Core Concept
Air Superiority Definition: The degree of air control in armed conflict - a necessary but not sufficient condition for military victory
Dual Nature: Both offensive (enabling air power projection) and defensive (preventing enemy air operations)
2. Evolving Threats
Russian and Chinese Air Power: Development of advanced Integrated Air Defense Systems (IADS)
New Technologies: Ballistic/hypersonic missiles, drone proliferation, electronic warfare, very high altitude exploitation
Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD): Strategies to contest Western air dominance
3. Current Challenges
Ukraine Conflict Lessons: Mutual air denial demonstrating IADS effectiveness
Technology Proliferation: Advanced SAM systems, stealth aircraft spreading beyond major powers
Saturation Tactics: Mass deployment of low-cost weapons overwhelming defenses
4. French Air Power Assessment
Strengths: Nuclear deterrence capability, territorial air defense, Rafale fighter program
Critical Gaps:
No stealth aircraft until 2035+
Limited SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) capabilities
Insufficient ammunition stocks
Inadequate air defense layers
5. Future Combat Characteristics
Stealth Dominance: Radar stealth remains decisive factor
Distributed Operations: Shift from centralized to distributed command and control
Collaborative Combat: Manned-unmanned teaming, sensor fusion
Altitude Stratification: Different combat dynamics at various altitude bands
Brief Summary
This comprehensive French defense study analyzes the future of air superiority in high-intensity conflicts. The report argues that while air superiority remains crucial for military success, Western air forces face unprecedented challenges from advanced Russian and Chinese air defense systems and new asymmetric threats.
Key Findings:
Traditional Western air superiority doctrine, proven in Iraq (1991), faces serious challenges from modern IADS
France's air power model, built around nuclear deterrence and territorial defense, has critical capability gaps for high-intensity coalition warfare
The proliferation of stealth technology, advanced SAMs, and saturation weapons is changing air combat fundamentals
Main Recommendations:
Short-term: Modernize current aircraft mission systems and increase ammunition stocks
Medium-term: Transition from platform-centric to distributed sensor/weapon networks
Long-term: Develop differentiated Hi-Lo force mix balancing exquisite capabilities with mass production
The study concludes that maintaining air superiority will require fundamental shifts in doctrine, technology, and force structure, moving away from expensive, low-quantity systems toward collaborative, distributed, and more numerous platforms capable of saturation tactics while preserving technological advantages in key areas.
The report serves as both a strategic warning about evolving threats and a roadmap for adapting Western air power to remain effective in future high-intensity conflicts.
Key Aspects and Summary of "L'avenir de la supériorité aérienne"
Key Aspects
1. Core Concept
Air Superiority Definition: The degree of air control in armed conflict - a necessary but not sufficient condition for military victory
Dual Nature: Both offensive (enabling air power projection) and defensive (preventing enemy air operations)
2. Evolving Threats
Russian and Chinese Air Power: Development of advanced Integrated Air Defense Systems (IADS)
New Technologies: Ballistic/hypersonic missiles, drone proliferation, electronic warfare, very high altitude exploitation
Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD): Strategies to contest Western air dominance
3. Current Challenges
Ukraine Conflict Lessons: Mutual air denial demonstrating IADS effectiveness
Technology Proliferation: Advanced SAM systems, stealth aircraft spreading beyond major powers
Saturation Tactics: Mass deployment of low-cost weapons overwhelming defenses
4. French Air Power Assessment
Strengths: Nuclear deterrence capability, territorial air defense, Rafale fighter program
Critical Gaps:
No stealth aircraft until 2035+
Limited SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) capabilities
Insufficient ammunition stocks
Inadequate air defense layers
5. Future Combat Characteristics
Stealth Dominance: Radar stealth remains decisive factor
Distributed Operations: Shift from centralized to distributed command and control
Collaborative Combat: Manned-unmanned teaming, sensor fusion
Altitude Stratification: Different combat dynamics at various altitude bands
Brief Summary
This comprehensive French defense study analyzes the future of air superiority in high-intensity conflicts. The report argues that while air superiority remains crucial for military success, Western air forces face unprecedented challenges from advanced Russian and Chinese air defense systems and new asymmetric threats.
Key Findings:
Traditional Western air superiority doctrine, proven in Iraq (1991), faces serious challenges from modern IADS
France's air power model, built around nuclear deterrence and territorial defense, has critical capability gaps for high-intensity coalition warfare
The proliferation of stealth technology, advanced SAMs, and saturation weapons is changing air combat fundamentals
Main Recommendations:
Short-term: Modernize current aircraft mission systems and increase ammunition stocks
Medium-term: Transition from platform-centric to distributed sensor/weapon networks
Long-term: Develop differentiated Hi-Lo force mix balancing exquisite capabilities with mass production
The study concludes that maintaining air superiority will require fundamental shifts in doctrine, technology, and force structure, moving away from expensive, low-quantity systems toward collaborative, distributed, and more numerous platforms capable of saturation tactics while preserving technological advantages in key areas.
The report serves as both a strategic warning about evolving threats and a roadmap for adapting Western air power to remain effective in future high-intensity conflicts.