Dassault Rafale - Updates and Discussion

Picdelamirand-oil

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Will NATO allow Turkey to wage war on an independent country?
Article 5 of NATO only applies if a member of the alliance is attacked. If it is the member that attacks another country, it is on its own. For example the French intervention in Africa....
Not directly if that's what you mean but definitely indirectly.
As a support of Pakistan...
 

Hydra

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Article 5 of NATO only applies if a member of the alliance is attacked. If it is the member that attacks another country, it is on its own. For example the French intervention in Africa....

As a support of Pakistan...
I am not talking about NATO getting involved in militarily in favour to Turkey. My doubt if if Turkey waged war on an independent nation to get control of the natural resources of another country, then its against the ethics followed by most NATO members & Turkey can be considered as rogue nation. Do you guys still allow a rogue nation to be a part of NATO?
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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I am not talking about NATO getting involved in militarily in favour to Turkey. My doubt if if Turkey waged war on an independent nation to get control of the natural resources of another country, then its against the ethics followed by most NATO members & Turkey can be considered as rogue nation. Do you guys still allow a rogue nation to be a part of NATO?
The problem is that the Americans are very keen to have Turkey in NATO because its territory is geostrategically well placed and there are many tools for the surveillance of Russia there.
 

Bon Plan

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Better late than never.

But what's the plan for French production in the 2030s?

France will get to 225 jets by 2030. UAE's final delivery is in 2031. New orders will require parallel deliveries, so they could all be finished well before 2035, including Egyptian, Indonesian and any potential Saudi orders. So will French production end by then? Or will France add more jets to its own inventory?
France will order more than 225.
1) The white book following Ukrainian war will be changed, for more stronger armies.
2) The first delivered Rafale are getting... older !
3) The FCAS has taken some delays. And may finally not be built....
 

Bon Plan

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Will NATO allow Turkey to wage war on an independent country?
Just after a Turkish frigate used its fire radar on a french vessel trying to verify what's inside a cargo, during a NATO meeting the Turkish military were harshly bullied by US top rank generals. This after the F35 exclusion are clear messages not to go too deep.
 

randomradio

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France will order more than 225.
1) The white book following Ukrainian war will be changed, for more stronger armies.
2) The first delivered Rafale are getting... older !
3) The FCAS has taken some delays. And may finally not be built....

1. France seems to be in a comfortable place for now though.
2. Isn't it still 2036? 9000/250 = 36 years. PANG's gonna have to end up with Rafales instead of NGF.
3. If Dassault's wish is granted.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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2. Isn't it still 2036? 9000/250 = 36 years. PANG's gonna have to end up with Rafales instead of NGF.
Things are evolving on this front: we are now at 275 hours per year instead of 250 to compensate for the Rafales sold second-hand and it is possible that we will go up to 300 and more to stay within a 30-year life span. In fact it is thought that after 30 years it is not very interesting to extend an airframe, in fact it is this data combined with the 7500 h life achievable that has led to the figure of 250 h per year which combined with the operational contract has itself led to the volume of Rafale needed.
 

randomradio

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Things are evolving on this front: we are now at 275 hours per year instead of 250 to compensate for the Rafales sold second-hand and it is possible that we will go up to 300 and more to stay within a 30-year life span. In fact it is thought that after 30 years it is not very interesting to extend an airframe, in fact it is this data combined with the 7500 h life achievable that has led to the figure of 250 h per year which combined with the operational contract has itself led to the volume of Rafale needed.

The increased flying time shouldn't affect the Rafale M though. The Ms are the oldest after all. 2 jets in the year 2000+36 = 2036.

And AAE's missing jets will be replaced within a few years anyway. So even the extra 25 hours is over a very short duration. 250 hours for most of its life, 275 hours for 4 years, it's not much, just 100 hours extra. It will still mean AAE's oldest jets will need replacement from 2040 instead of 2041, 'cause IIRC 2005 is when they got their first jet, which is still going to be peanuts.

To sustain a line without exports after, say, 2033, Dassault will need 77 jets. I don't believe that many jets will require replacement.

So, what, MN will need 2 or 3 jets starting from 2036 and AAE will need a little less than half a squadron in 2040.

MN's fleet will also be problematic, with half of them new built Rafales and the other half NGFs.

I am also more inclined to believe that as the jets get older, the training requirements will reduce and flying time will decrease in exchange for greater lifespan. Possibly 21 hours a month to 15 hours, ie 180 hours a year. So the replacement period can get stretched even more. After 31 years at 250 per year, 180 hours will add 2 more years. So, instead of 36 years, you can get 38.

So the French active duty fleet needs an expansion from 225 to the original 286 or beyond in order to sustain the line. The 2030s production can't replace older Rafales. And with pretty much all of the production going to AAE. If FCAS goes ahead, MN will have to wait or get stuck with two types of jets at the same time.

But if FCAS is cancelled, then AAE/MN will have to start replacing their jets very prematurely, as much as 2034, in order to sustain the line.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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The increased flying time shouldn't affect the Rafale M though. The Ms are the oldest after all. 2 jets in the year 2000+36 = 2036.

And AAE's missing jets will be replaced within a few years anyway. So even the extra 25 hours is over a very short duration. 250 hours for most of its life, 275 hours for 4 years, it's not much, just 100 hours extra. It will still mean AAE's oldest jets will need replacement from 2040 instead of 2041, 'cause IIRC 2005 is when they got their first jet, which is still going to be peanuts.

To sustain a line without exports after, say, 2033, Dassault will need 77 jets. I don't believe that many jets will require replacement.

So, what, MN will need 2 or 3 jets starting from 2036 and AAE will need a little less than half a squadron in 2040.

MN's fleet will also be problematic, with half of them new built Rafales and the other half NGFs.

I am also more inclined to believe that as the jets get older, the training requirements will reduce and flying time will decrease in exchange for greater lifespan. Possibly 21 hours a month to 15 hours, ie 180 hours a year. So the replacement period can get stretched even more. After 31 years at 250 per year, 180 hours will add 2 more years. So, instead of 36 years, you can get 38.

So the French active duty fleet needs an expansion from 225 to the original 286 or beyond in order to sustain the line. The 2030s production can't replace older Rafales. And with pretty much all of the production going to AAE. If FCAS goes ahead, MN will have to wait or get stuck with two types of jets at the same time.

But if FCAS is cancelled, then AAE/MN will have to start replacing their jets very prematurely, as much as 2034, in order to sustain the line.
The 77 will be for India :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
After Ukrainien war we will certainly upgrade our needs.
Until 2033 we will certainly increase our Rafale export.
We will see the new plan with the new goverment.
 

randomradio

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The 77 will be for India :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
After Ukrainien war we will certainly upgrade our needs.
Until 2033 we will certainly increase our Rafale export.
We will see the new plan with the new goverment.

So without exports, the only real option is to expand the size of the AAE. I'd actually like to see a naval expansion, but that's a different topic.
 

_Anonymous_

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Here sweetie. It's a ~ 2 year old video on your favourite foreign fighter in the whole wide world - the Rafale by who else but your favourite content creator whose videos you keep linking here ( whenever they match your PoV ) .

Here's 3rd party confirmation of Super Cruise - Mach 1.4 in clean configuration & active stealth . Do make sure to watch the video till the end & activate the sub titles for Dago English might be incomprehensible to trailer park ears . Btw , since he isn't French but Italian , you can't expect him to be partisan.

@Innominate

You may be interested too . @Bon Plan ; @Picdelamirand-oil ; @Amarante
 
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BMD

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TWO RAFALES FROM THE AIR SHOW COLLIDE: DAMAGE AND MAJOR PANIC IN GENSAC-LA-PALLUE.

Two Rafales from the air show collide: damage and major panic in Gensac-la-Pallue.
Debris of planes are found in the center of the town in front of many witnesses.

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By Henry GIRARD - [email protected] , published onMay 22, 2022 at 4:43 p.m., modifiedat 6:04 p.m..
Two Rafale planes touched each other in mid-flight during the aerial demonstration on the 709 base in Cognac-Châteaubernard this Sunday, May 22. The debris damaged a house in Gensac-la-Pallue, without causing any injuries.

The noise was deafening according to witnesses on the spot. At 12:40 p.m., this Sunday, May 22, in the middle of the La Fosa national air meeting on the 709 Cognac-Châteaubernard military base , two Rafale-type planes touched each other during their tactical presentation above the village...

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Amarante

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Wakanda, situation: normal
Central African Republic: arms embargo violation continues, Wagner company delivers fighter jet
(…) According to our information, very recently, in the weeks preceding the writing of this article, the Russian company Wagner had a fighter plane of the rafale type discreetly transported in spare parts to CAR. This plane, which was gradually and secretly reassembled in Bouar, is currently positioned just as discreetly in the military base of the Russian mercenaries in this locality and is already ready for use.(…)
:coffee:
 

Bon Plan

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Dec 1, 2017
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TWO RAFALES FROM THE AIR SHOW COLLIDE: DAMAGE AND MAJOR PANIC IN GENSAC-LA-PALLUE.

Two Rafales from the air show collide: damage and major panic in Gensac-la-Pallue.
Debris of planes are found in the center of the town in front of many witnesses.

View attachment 23803

By Henry GIRARD - [email protected] , published onMay 22, 2022 at 4:43 p.m., modifiedat 6:04 p.m..
Two Rafale planes touched each other in mid-flight during the aerial demonstration on the 709 base in Cognac-Châteaubernard this Sunday, May 22. The debris damaged a house in Gensac-la-Pallue, without causing any injuries.

The noise was deafening according to witnesses on the spot. At 12:40 p.m., this Sunday, May 22, in the middle of the La Fosa national air meeting on the 709 Cognac-Châteaubernard military base , two Rafale-type planes touched each other during their tactical presentation above the village...

View attachment 23804
View attachment 23805
View attachment 23807
View attachment 23806
Heavy damaged.
 
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