Cabinet clears ‘AGNIPATH’ scheme for recruitment of youth in the Armed Forces

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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I tend to agree with hellfire. Modi is something like Nehru 2.0. How to mess up a perfectly good system. Decent administrator to fix problems. In the rush to fix short term economics, he is going to mess up long term strategy.

The more one looks at it, the more one is convinced that CDS is a political appointee to push government agenda. The mess this government is creating at the fundamental level will take years to fix, if implemented.

Military ethos in civil society. They need their brains checked, seriously.

I don't think this fixes short term economics though. Potential savings in salaries can only begin 4 years from now. And it only saves 2 years of incremental salaries from the 5th year before elections in 2029, and that's only for about 80-90k soldiers, so it's not a lot. And the pension bill for the very first batch will be saved only after 20 years counting this year, ie, when the first Agniveer retires.

The CDS position is very important. He can pull rank over the chiefs when it comes to funding priorities, and we don't want a repeat of what happened during Kargil War. The issue is our security environment is extremely army-centric, which means the IAF is constantly butting heads with the army. Plus the fact that theaterisation cannot be conducted without a joint chiefs office. It increases the civilian hold over the military, but it's still very necessary. Problems happen when civilians end up interfering in the internal operations of the military to the point where it affects the core foundation of the forces, like this Tourist on Duty circus.
 
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suryakiran

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Dec 1, 2017
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I don't think this fixes short term economics though. Potential savings in salaries can only begin 4 years from now. And it only saves 2 years of incremental salaries from the 5th year before elections in 2029, and that's only for about 80-90k soldiers, so it's not a lot. And the pension bill for the very first batch will be saved only after 20 years counting this year, ie, when the first Agniveer retires.

The CDS position is very important. He can pull rank over the chiefs when it comes to funding priorities, and we don't want a repeat of what happened during Kargil War. The issue is our security environment is extremely army-centric, which means the IAF is constantly butting heads with the army. Plus the fact that theaterisation cannot be conducted without a joint chiefs office. It increases the civilian hold over the military, but it's still very necessary. Problems happen when civilians end up interfering in the internal operations of the military to the point where it affects the core foundation of the forces, like this Tourist on Duty circus.
Short term economics, I mean over the next 10 years or so. Long term, in this case will take decades to fix.

Nobody is debating the importance of the CDS. What is happening on the ground, is what is important. The very fact that the current GoI has not filled the post says a lot on what it wants that position to do. This simple delay will result in a cloud over anyone now appointed to that post.
 

RISING SUN

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Dec 3, 2017
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I tend to agree with hellfire. Modi is something like Nehru 2.0. How to mess up a perfectly good system. Decent administrator to fix problems. In the rush to fix short term economics, he is going to mess up long term strategy.

The more one looks at it, the more one is convinced that CDS is a political appointee to push government agenda. The mess this government is creating at the fundamental level will take years to fix, if implemented.

Military ethos in civil society. They need their brains checked, seriously.
Their hearts are in good place, that's the only thing in their favor, not their actions, at least going by the prevalent public view.
 

Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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I tend to agree with hellfire. Modi is something like Nehru 2.0. How to mess up a perfectly good system. Decent administrator to fix problems. In the rush to fix short term economics, he is going to mess up long term strategy.

The more one looks at it, the more one is convinced that CDS is a political appointee to push government agenda. The mess this government is creating at the fundamental level will take years to fix, if implemented.

Military ethos in civil society. They need their brains checked, seriously.
Totally failed policies
1) Demonetization
2) Strategic partnership models
3) Implimentation of farm law
4) make in India
5)CDS post
So far the only good thing this government has done are abrogation of special status of J&K

Based on statistics, agniveer program will be a disaster
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Short term economics, I mean over the next 10 years or so. Long term, in this case will take decades to fix.

Yeah. So it won't help the current dispensation economically.

The govt's simply being way too hasty. At the very least, this requires a pilot project with the full plan being implemented about a decade later, if successful. The current plan's way too risky. But let's just hope it works out.

Nobody is debating the importance of the CDS. What is happening on the ground, is what is important. The very fact that the current GoI has not filled the post says a lot on what it wants that position to do. This simple delay will result in a cloud over anyone now appointed to that post.

I think they screwed up hierarchy. They apparently have only junior officers for the CDS position, or bring in a retired officer. It's not very clear to me obviously, but they seem to have ended up with an HR issue. So I think this is just teething problems for a new office where succession is hierarchial rather than meritorial, which limits candidates to those who are older than the current chiefs.
 

Sathya

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Dec 2, 2017
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What are members initial thoughts on agnipath scheme announced?

@Milspec @randomradio et al.

I saw how the allopathy medical field got screwed.
Govt allows bridge course for ayurvedic, siddha guys to have 6 months posting in medical college. Then they can practice allopathy without any risk for medico legal problems.

All rules laws procedures and long years of study applied to allopathy like 10 years + years of posting in villages PHCs, Corona ward but

6 months bridge course allowed them to practice on par with allopathy without any negative side of regular allopathy course and practice.

------

While there is demand for Doctors in PHCs, there is also unemployment for permanent post s of the same.
Yet trainees were posted for reducing the permanent candidate s.

-------

This all happened, which Doctors were holding nation wide protest.
Nothing could change Govt take on this.

-------

If everything is worked as planned, older system also should have worked.
If not then it's more likely newer method also will fail.

Personally I think Right meritorious guy for the right post is what needed. If one allows crooks everywhere, nothing will succeed.

---------

End result will be systematic authorized degradation of that fields capabilities.
 
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Tatvamasi

Senior member
Jan 5, 2018
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India
I saw how the allopathy medical field got screwed.
Govt allows bridge course for ayurvedic, siddha guys to have 6 months posting in medical college. Then they can practice allopathy without any risk for medico legal problems.

All rules laws procedures and long years of study applied to allopathy like 10 years + years of posting in villages PHCs, Corona ward but

6 months bridge course allowed them to practice on par with allopathy without any negative side of regular allopathy course and practice.

------

While there is demand for Doctors in PHCs, there is also unemployment for permanent post s of the same.
Yet trainees were posted for reducing the permanent candidate s.

-------

This all happened, which Doctors were holding nation wide protest.
Nothing could change Govt take on this.

-------

If everything is worked as planned, older system also should have worked.
If not then it's more likely newer method also will fail.

Personally I think Right meritorious guy for the right post is what needed. If one allows crooks everywhere, nothing will succeed.

---------

End result will be systematic authorized degradation of that fields capabilities.
Off topic: Please stop using the word allopathy for modern medicine. Its a term used a century ago which is no longer valid.
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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India
What are members initial thoughts on agnipath scheme announced?

@Milspec @randomradio et al.


Very bad idea. They will bring in corruption during recruitment and the recruits themselves will be nothing to write home about once deployed. Each generation (4 years) will become progressively worse than the next.

The only thing good about this scheme is the name "Agnipath", but I would still call it "Tour of Dooty".
 
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Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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They will bring in corruption during recruitment and the recruits themselves will be nothing to write home about once deployed.
Explain more on how corruption would sink in. Further why an Tod candidate of say 3 years experience be any bad than earlier ones at 3 years experience.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,554
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India
Explain more on how corruption would sink in. Further why an Tod candidate of say 3 years experience be any bad than earlier ones at 3 years experience.

This system can't work in India. It can only work in developed countries with high amounts of accountability, plus where recruits use the armed forces as a stepping stone for a future career. In India, the army is the career, they will do anything to get in.

If I am a soldier who is less likely to transition into full time employment, I will gladly give up my 11.71 lakh severance package to an officer who can pull me in. And the money will flow both up and down the chain of command. It will open up the entire army for exploitation. It's pretty much how it works in countries like Russia, China etc.

It will also open the door for nepotism, where NCOs and officers will try to push their favourite recruits in. Hell, even the corporate sector openly practices nepotism. Govt offices are even more so, where your second name is of the greatest importance than anything else. So how will the army escape from this cancer? We already know for a fact there's some amounts of nepotism among the officers.

And with corruption and nepotism, even good candidates will become disgruntled. They will be less likely to follow orders, and more likely to commit illegal acts and even war crimes.

This isn't being done with good intentions. The politicians and bureaucrats are trying to bring the military down to their level. And if some are actually doing this with good intentions, then they are the biggest idiots on the planet, they shouldn't even be deciding what clothes to wear for an outing.

Frankly this reminds me of the exchange between Batman and Joker from Dark Knight:
I took Gotham's white knight, and brought him down to our level.

No points for guessing who's Joker here.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
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4,581
The First point that was spoken about at the PC was the Age profile of Indian Army

At present it is 32 years

With this new scheme it will be brought down to 26 years
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
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Critics are talking only of Job Security

What about the Requirements of the Army

Army just does not need Manpower

It also needs Technologies and Firepower

We need More Artillery and MBRL
Regiments instead of more Infantry Regiments
 
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Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,816
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Bangalore
We need a policy where anyone who damages public property, or inhibits emergency or necessary services from functionality during a protest needs to be

1. Ensure that he/she is not eligible for any government job or government funded institutions.

2. The damage amount is extracted from the person at any cost which may include selling off any or all of his or her property.

3. He or she is banned for life to travel in Airlines, Trains or metros. If possible other public modes of transportation.

4. He or she will not be able to use government subsidies.

5. He or she is deeply investigated and if any flaw, financial or say he has 1 extra floor built or any wrong doing , is also punished.

If we want a 5 trillion economy in a few years, we cannot afford to be soft on trouble makers.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,816
3,679
Bangalore
Critics are talking only of Job Security

What about the Requirements of the Army

Army just does not need Manpower

It also needs Technologies and Firepower

We need More Artillery and MBRL
Regiments instead of more Infantry Regiments
Army today is purely a defensive force. If we want any kind of deterrent, we need to take the fight to the enemy.

US led coalitions advance into Iraq is a very good and recent example of the types of resources needed for a decent army to take the fight to the gates of a average foe.

Iraq's forces were 2nd class in comparison to US led alliance and still the amount of resources it needed.

There are documentaries, with great details out there. I urge everyone to go and watch those.

And then compare our capabilities in 2020s. We don't stand a chance at offence today. The 28% MoD budget going to pensions needs to be cut. Else national security is at risk.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
7,463
4,581
Army today is purely a defensive force. If we want any kind of deterrent, we need to take the fight to the enemy.

US led coalitions advance into Iraq is a very good and recent example of the types of resources needed for a decent army to take the fight to the gates of a average foe.

Iraq's forces were 2nd class in comparison to US led alliance and still the amount of resources it needed.

There are documentaries, with great details out there. I urge everyone to go and watch those.

And then compare our capabilities in 2020s. We don't stand a chance at offence today. The 28% MoD budget going to pensions needs to be cut. Else national security is at risk.

Our doctrine and posture is one of
Dissuasive Deterrence

That is let the enemy start a conflict, but he will pay much more in terms of men and material
And now with LAC becoming another financial burden because of all year deployment , we need more resources

So if this scheme saves money ,well and good

But there are many loose ends still left to be tied

The first question is that will there be any takers amongst the youth

We shall soon see the answer in recruitment rallies