Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis

Isn't ngarn range is only 200km(that too for ground target) , so ho2 will it even beat astra mk2 ?

I guess we need dedicated a2a missile like a :
3 pulse (mid pulse so that altitude and speed dont fall too much and 3rd for last stage) with 6×0.35 meter for >500km range
NGARM range is only 200 kms because of its propellant grain density and its intended anti-radiation role. With Astra MK2 like propellant chemistry and dual-pulse motor(which it has already got) and flight profile optimised for air-to-air role(read lofted trajectory), it could definitely reach around 500kms looking at its sheer size and aerodynamic profile.
 
NGARM range is only 200 kms because of its propellant grain density and its intended anti-radiation role. With Astra MK2 like propellant chemistry and dual-pulse motor(which it has already got) and flight profile optimised for air-to-air role(read lofted trajectory), it could definitely reach around 500kms looking at its sheer size and aerodynamic profile.
why not just integrate the kusha m1? its prolly going to be around below 1k tonnes and slightly above the MRSAM considering the m3 is around 1.6k tonnes and is a much bigger missile with a much bigger booster etc. Woudn't this be much better choice rather than converting the NGAARM to an A-a missile. You alr have a good seeker which is much stronger than your avg a-a missile seeker.
 
I asked AI to make me a ultra long Range AAM for SU 30 MKI & this is what it came up with Lola


★ Very Very LR-AAM
* Development Cost > ?
* Price > ?
* Length > 4.750 Mt
* Diameter > 380 mm
* Weight > 860 Kg
* Two way Data-Link
* Propulsion > High-Energy Composite Solid Propellant With Nano-Aluminum/Boron Additives & Carbon-Composite Motor Casing
* Seeker > mm Band AESA
* Warhead Weight > 60 Kg ( HE fragmentation )

* Range at different Altitudes
• 540 Km @ 30 Km Altitude (Lofted) { Estimated NEZ : 185 km }
• 340 Km @ 15 Km Altitude { Estimated NEZ : 120 km }
• 235 Km @ 8 Km Altitude { Estimated NEZ : 82 km }
• 185 Km @ 5 Km Altitude { Estimated NEZ : 60 km​
* Max Speed > Mach 5.0
* Avg Speed > Mach 3.8

I think this is achievable ?

@Rajput Lion
 
HJAp81sacAA9k4R


PAF will have the first advantage of FIRST look FIRST kill, the line will ingress further if they are crossing the IB, and J-35 will not carry PL-17, it's J10CE that gonna carry PL-17, supported by KJ 500, and how do we break Thier kill chain, by deploying formidable AD systems and radars to detect & shoot down Stealth aircrafts, and we need more AWACS for better situational awareness,
If we want to have nullify Thier stealth advantage, we have to strike first,
With suryaastra, pinaka, pralay and drones, pushing them into Peshawar & Balochistan,
They are lot of factors which contributes to air superiority in today's warfare and the recent e.g usage of drone & high speed missile are the prime e.g which can the balance in instance,

Mass deployment & production of such system will provide credible offensive & defensive capabilities,
 
PAF will have the first advantage of FIRST look FIRST kill, the line will ingress further if they are crossing the IB, and J-35 will not carry PL-17, it's J10CE that gonna carry PL-17, supported by KJ 500, and how do we break Thier kill chain, by deploying formidable AD systems and radars to detect & shoot down Stealth aircrafts, and we need more AWACS for better situational awareness,
If we want to have nullify Thier stealth advantage, we have to strike first,
With suryaastra, pinaka, pralay and drones, pushing them into Peshawar & Balochistan,
They are lot of factors which contributes to air superiority in today's warfare and the recent e.g usage of drone & high speed missile are the prime e.g which can the balance in instance,

Mass deployment & production of such system will provide credible offensive & defensive capabilities,
We need Su-57 to counter J-35. Relying on IADS only may prove too costly.
I asked AI to make me a ultra long Range AAM for SU 30 MKI & this is what it came up with Lola


★ Very Very LR-AAM
* Development Cost > ?
* Price > ?
* Length > 4.750 Mt
* Diameter > 380 mm
* Weight > 860 Kg
* Two way Data-Link
* Propulsion > High-Energy Composite Solid Propellant With Nano-Aluminum/Boron Additives & Carbon-Composite Motor Casing
* Seeker > mm Band AESA
* Warhead Weight > 60 Kg ( HE fragmentation )

* Range at different Altitudes
• 540 Km @ 30 Km Altitude (Lofted) { Estimated NEZ : 185 km }
• 340 Km @ 15 Km Altitude { Estimated NEZ : 120 km }
• 235 Km @ 8 Km Altitude { Estimated NEZ : 82 km }
• 185 Km @ 5 Km Altitude { Estimated NEZ : 60 km​
* Max Speed > Mach 5.0
* Avg Speed > Mach 3.8

I think this is achievable ?

@Rajput Lion
Right in the ballpark of NGARM, lol.
why not just integrate the kusha m1? its prolly going to be around below 1k tonnes and slightly above the MRSAM considering the m3 is around 1.6k tonnes and is a much bigger missile with a much bigger booster etc. Woudn't this be much better choice rather than converting the NGAARM to an A-a missile. You alr have a good seeker which is much stronger than your avg a-a missile seeker.
That's a good suggestion👍
 
PAF will have the first advantage of FIRST look FIRST kill, the line will ingress further if they are crossing the IB, and J-35 will not carry PL-17, it's J10CE that gonna carry PL-17, supported by KJ 500, and how do we break Thier kill chain, by deploying formidable AD systems and radars to detect & shoot down Stealth aircrafts, and we need more AWACS for better situational awareness,
If we want to have nullify Thier stealth advantage, we have to strike first,
With suryaastra, pinaka, pralay and drones, pushing them into Peshawar & Balochistan,
They are lot of factors which contributes to air superiority in today's warfare and the recent e.g usage of drone & high speed missile are the prime e.g which can the balance in instance,

Mass deployment & production of such system will provide credible offensive & defensive capabilities,
What we need is a doctrine to use AD systems as offensive counter air systems that can be deployed and fire from the border.
Also something on the lines of Astra mk4 needs to be developed with 400-600 km range) in any case su-57 is need of the hour.
Also SAAW needs to be upgraded with bigger variants as well as increased range. Same for longer ranged ALCM.

Also we need to create a game-plan to destroy PAC Kamra.

The thing with the PAF is that they stay behind their airspace and spamming their initial missiles before scattering away. IAF has to change its doctrine and be open to letting loose. And also civilian aircrafts need to become legitimate targets if they come in between and used as cover by the PAF.
The meteor needs to become an expendable weapons rather than a silver bullet.

Loitering drones production needs to be massively updated.
 
PAF will have the first advantage of FIRST look FIRST kill, the line will ingress further if they are crossing the IB, and J-35 will not carry PL-17, it's J10CE that gonna carry PL-17, supported by KJ 500, and how do we break Thier kill chain, by deploying formidable AD systems and radars to detect & shoot down Stealth aircrafts, and we need more AWACS for better situational awareness,
If we want to have nullify Thier stealth advantage, we have to strike first,
With suryaastra, pinaka, pralay and drones, pushing them into Peshawar & Balochistan,
They are lot of factors which contributes to air superiority in today's warfare and the recent e.g usage of drone & high speed missile are the prime e.g which can the balance in instance,

Mass deployment & production of such system will provide credible offensive & defensive capabilities,
Have been saying that the Netra Program has been delayed beyond timelines.

A321 have never been awacs and would take 2-3 years for Conversion ( the planes are still at Hindon AFS and not at Airbus Spain )
Trials & Certification will take 2-3 more years , making it come until 2032.

A330 Netra mk3 is as real as AMCA and pipe dream, so called Wish guru cannot buy A330 as Tanker ( which Italy, Australia, UK type can afford ) and DRDO has haseen sapne of making it Awacs with no history in that role and needing lengthy testing & certification.

Netra Mk1a is subpar with just GaN replacing GaA , its inferior to Erieye as a 240 degree platform ( forget Global Eye which is a generation ahead )

That also has delays due to buying and converting ERJ-145 by Embraer and then DRDO doing its own shithoustry ( making it 2030s again )

PSU and Parrikar bhakts have screwed IAF with blind reliance on DRDO - HAL ( chai biscuit gang )
 
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Defence officials familiar with the assessment process say the intelligence value of the recovery extends far beyond studying the missile’s aerodynamic structure. Modern BVR missiles function as highly networked electronic weapons systems that rely on sophisticated onboard processors, radar seekers, encrypted datalinks, and electronic counter-countermeasure capabilities. Access to physical hardware allows engineers to move beyond theoretical assumptions and directly analyse how the weapon identifies, tracks, and engages aerial targets under combat conditions.


One of the most significant outcomes of the ongoing examination has reportedly been the extraction and decoding of the missile’s electronic signature. Indian specialists are believed to have identified key radar emission characteristics, communication frequencies, and frequency-hopping patterns associated with the PL-15E’s guidance and targeting systems.


This information is now being integrated into India’s electronic warfare libraries
and threat databases, substantially enhancing the defensive capabilities of frontline combat aircraft. In modern air warfare, controlling and manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum has become as important as kinetic firepower itself. Radar emissions, datalink frequencies, and seeker behaviours determine how effectively missiles can acquire targets and resist jamming attempts.


Armed with detailed knowledge of the PL-15E’s electronic profile, Indian fighter aircraft equipped with advanced electronic warfare suites are expected to gain a critical edge in detecting and disrupting incoming missile threats. Defence sources indicate that updated threat algorithms and jamming protocols have already been incorporated into several frontline platforms.


The indigenous electronic warfare systems aboard the HAL Tejas Mk1A and the Sukhoi Su-30MKI have reportedly undergone software modifications tailored specifically to counter the PL-15E’s guidance mechanisms. Similar upgrades are understood to have been introduced into the advanced SPECTRA electronic warfare suite integrated with the Dassault Rafale operated by the Indian Air Force.


Military aviation specialists point out that electronic warfare effectiveness often depends on possessing exact technical data about hostile systems. Without authentic electronic signatures, defensive systems rely on approximations and simulated threat models. The recovered PL-15E components have now provided Indian engineers with empirical data directly sourced from operational hardware.


Another major area of interest has been the missile’s secure datalink architecture. Long-range BVR missiles such as the PL-15E rely heavily on mid-course guidance updates transmitted from the launching aircraft or airborne early warning and control systems. These encrypted datalinks allow the missile to adjust its trajectory after launch and maintain target tracking information over extended distances.


To resist electronic interference, such systems rapidly shift frequencies using advanced hopping algorithms and encryption protocols. By physically examining the missile’s internal electronics, Indian analysts reportedly succeeded in mapping aspects of these communication sequences and spectral transitions.


Defence experts say this knowledge could significantly improve India’s ability to disrupt the missile during flight by severing or corrupting its communication links. If a missile loses contact with its guidance source or receives compromised targeting information, its probability of successfully intercepting an agile fighter aircraft declines sharply.


The recovery has also yielded valuable insights into the missile’s propulsion and flight performance characteristics. Engineers analysing the remnants of the dual-pulse solid rocket motor have reportedly gained a clearer understanding of the PL-15E’s real-world kinematic capabilities, including acceleration profiles, energy retention, and manoeuvrability at varying altitudes.


Such information is strategically important because publicly available range figures often fail to reflect actual combat performance under operational conditions. Environmental factors, altitude, launch speed, and evasive target manoeuvres all influence the practical effectiveness of long-range missiles.


Using propulsion residue analysis and internal fuel composition studies, Indian scientists are believed to have developed a more realistic assessment of the missile’s engagement envelope. This data is now influencing tactical planning and combat doctrine within the Indian Air Force.


Pilots operating near the Line of Control and other high-risk sectors have reportedly received updated combat guidance based on the new analysis. Revised tactical procedures now include refined timelines for evasive manoeuvres, electronic countermeasure deployment, and defensive flight patterns designed specifically to reduce vulnerability against PL-15E-class weapons.


The broader geopolitical significance of the recovery has also attracted considerable international attention. The PL-15 missile family is widely regarded as one of China’s most advanced air-to-air weapons and has become central to Beijing’s efforts to challenge Western aerial superiority in the Indo-Pacific region.


Pakistan’s acquisition of the export-grade PL-15E had previously raised concerns among regional defence planners because of its potential to alter the balance of air combat in South Asia. However, military analysts caution that missile range alone does not determine battlefield dominance. The effectiveness of modern BVR combat depends equally on pilot training, sensor integration, networked surveillance assets, and electronic warfare resilience.


By obtaining direct access to the PL-15E’s hardware and operational characteristics, India has shifted from theoretical threat assessment to vulnerability exploitation. Analysts believe this transition could significantly reduce the psychological and operational advantage previously associated with the missile.


Reports suggesting interest from international defence partners have further amplified the importance of the discovery. Defence observers indicate that countries including the United States, France, and Japan are closely monitoring the findings to better understand the missile’s active electronically scanned array (AESA) seeker technology and propulsion systems.


The intelligence value extends beyond South Asia because the PL-15 series represents a key component of China’s expanding military export portfolio and future aerial warfare strategy. Insights gained from the recovered missile could help allied nations improve their own countermeasure technologies and threat modelling capabilities.


Defence historians have compared the incident to major Cold War-era intelligence breakthroughs in which captured enemy systems accelerated the development of advanced countermeasures and tactical innovations. Throughout military history, access to intact adversary technology has often reshaped strategic planning far more effectively than battlefield speculation alone.


For India, the PL-15E recovery is expected to influence both immediate operational readiness and long-term indigenous weapons development. Engineers working on future Indian air-to-air missile programmes are likely to use the recovered data as a benchmark for seeker design, propulsion efficiency, electronic protection, and network-centric engagement systems.


The intelligence obtained during Operation Sindoor may ultimately prove valuable not only for neutralising current threats but also for shaping the next generation of India’s indigenous electronic warfare architecture and long-range missile technology. In an era where dominance in the electromagnetic spectrum increasingly determines survival in aerial combat, the recovery of the PL-15E represents far more than a battlefield curiosity — it marks a potentially transformative moment in India’s evolving air power strategy.
 
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I was today year old when i know that j10ce use gan based aesa radar which has much higher tr count that Rafale's radar

Infact almost all of china's execept j11bg uses gan aesa

We are really really f*cked
? no, Any GaN AESA is only added to the newer variants, they have a lot of older PESAs as well with the J11s. the J16s are all AESAs with the newest ones being GaN.

What did you expect? a superpower to be on the same scale as us? They move faster than the US ffs, they will mordernize faster than we can until our economy grows and we slowly change our procurement and upgrade systems. Thats is the harsh reality for the next 20 or so years
 
Are the ones with PAF AESA GaA or GAN ?
? no, Any GaN AESA is only added to the newer variants, they have a lot of older PESAs as well with the J11s. the J16s are all AESAs with the newest ones being GaN.

What did you expect? a superpower to be on the same scale as us? They move faster than the US ffs, they will mordernize faster than we can until our economy grows and we slowly change our procurement and upgrade systems. Thats is the harsh reality for the next 20 or so years