Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis

Except IAF is fully onboard the AMCA project and isn't considering F-35 or Su-57, regardless of what some might claim. We invested hundreds of millions in Su-57 project, and the Russians actively violated the terms of agreement. IAF has long memory, even if some here don't.

Never said F-35 is ASF. Refer to my comment again to verify. F-47/NGAD will replace the F-22, won't serve alongside. But this will happen sometime around late 30s, early 40s.

On that much we agree. They can't sign the engine deal with RR soon enough. Should be a mission mode project for IAF but here we are.

Agreed but what makes you say that the PLAAF/PLANAF won't have a whole host of passive and active sensors, on-board and off-board? I believe we're above PAF, and focus (even of these discussions) should be on thwarting the inevitable Chinese offensive. For argument's sake we say that our off-board and onboard active & passive sensors are better than the Chinese ones, we will still remain at a disadvantage against their 5th gen while on piloting a 4+gen with high RCS. We need a 5th gen of our own (AMCA), IAF is onboard that and should the need of a stopgap arise, it'll be, like I say, a stopgap of 40-60 jets with some ISEs. IAF won't dedicate precious resources committing to a foreign 5th gen, lock stock n barrel like MKI-fication of Su-57.
Time will tell my brother. Till then;)
 
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Some good news from Oman


New Delhi: In a remarkable stride towards modernising India's defence capabilities, the Indian Army has achieved a major milestone through the development and phased induction of Project Akashteer.

This ambitious initiative, a key part of the Army's "Decade of Transformation" and "Year of Tech Absorption," aims to provide India with a robust and responsive air defence network, meeting the demands of contemporary aerial threats with agility and precision.



Recently, a real-time validation of Project Akashteer was carried out simulating scenarios as expected in future wars. A senior officer from the military hierarchy witnessed the validation appreciated the achievements of the project and commended the team involved in developing the Akashteer.

He acknowledged their efforts and mentioned that it has realised a transformative leap in the Indian Army's air defence capabilities.

Project Akashteer introduces a fully automated and integrated air defence system, offering unparalleled responsiveness and reliability. Here's a closer look at the groundbreaking features of this transformative initiative:

Comprehensive Sensor Fusion: Akashteer has achieved a "bottoms-up" fusion of all air defence sensors, integrating land-based sensors from both the Army Air Defence (AAD) and the Indian Air Force (IAF). This ensures a seamless and unified air picture that is accessible to the lowest operational units of Army AD, enhancing coordination and situational awareness across the force.

Automated Operations for Faster Response: In air defence, every second is critical. Akashteer's automation replaces manual data entry, which previously consumed precious time. With no human input required, the system operates at maximum efficiency, allowing timely responses to fast-moving aerial threats. To illustrate, an aircraft at supersonic speeds can travel up to 18 kilometres in a single minute--Akashteer ensures that not a moment is lost in defence readiness.

Decentralised Engagement Authority: By decentralising the authority to engage hostile aircraft, Akashteer empowers units on the front lines, enabling rapid engagement decisions while maintaining controlled freedom to prevent friendly-fire incidents. This decentralisation is particularly critical for units stationed along the Northern and Eastern Commands, which are already equipped with Akashteer systems.

Advanced Real-Time Air Picture: Akashteer consolidates live data from various sources, including 3D Tactical Radars, Low-Level Lightweight Radars, and the Akash Weapon System, providing a multi-dimensional view of the airspace. This integrated picture is invaluable for both strategic planning and immediate threat response, giving Indian forces an edge in defending India's skies.

Built-in Redundancy and Scalability: The system is designed with robust communication redundancy, ensuring connectivity even under adverse conditions. Additionally, Akashteer offers both software and hardware upgrade capabilities, making it a future-proof platform able to adapt to evolving technological and operational needs.

Flexible Deployment Across Formations: Recognising the varied operational needs, Akashteer has been tailored to provide mobile, adaptable platforms for strike formations, while pivot formations have been equipped with hardened, land-based systems. This flexibility enables the system to effectively support a range of tactical scenarios, reinforcing India's defence on multiple fronts.

Akashteer's phased induction is already underway. Out of a total requirement of 455 systems, 107 have been delivered, with an additional 105 expected by March 2025. The remaining units will be delivered by March 2027, ensuring comprehensive coverage across the Indian Army's defence units and formations.

Through Project Akashteer, the Indian Army is positioning itself at the forefront of air defence technology, ensuring a secure and vigilant airspace over India. This significant achievement underscores the commitment of India's defence forces to innovate and enhance capabilities in response to ever-evolving security dynamics.
 
yes it does, but it does not use the same terminology.


so the aircraft carrier is nothing more than then "low end component of the USAF" ? when did the US Navy stop providing its own air cover for its own fleets and since when did any navy survive without control of the air post world war II and give up on the critical mission of Air Superiority?



I think you need to check your numbers on that. LOL



fallacious appeal to authority


its crazy to think how most air superiority fighters don't meet that criteria and thus most air superiority pilots are suicidal? you have gone to such an extreme that most every other aircraft on the planet now except for the F-22 is not just incapable of the air superiority mission but is suicidal.

Can you please admit you have this wrong instead of trying to convince us that Nuclear carriers are nothing more than USAF assets and anything besides an F-22 in the air is a suicide mission? You are bending things so badly to fit your narrative that it has become laughable. Not even LM goes so far as to say "F-22 or suicide"
You need to remember that the fanboy randomradio just talks ****** :poop:
His opinions are at best, that of a disturbed schoolboy.

Also it needs to be remembered that the Rafale can't use the 2 way data link of the Meteor missile. So it is already at a disadvantage.
 
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Imo buying a fighter ac is also about its deterrence value in the minds of our 2 main adversaries. I'd say that the F-35 does that better than a Su-57 ever will. The Chinese are certainly in awe of US mil hardware, given how ardently they copy US designs.

Otoh, it's a better option than the outdated junk (Strykers, Vipers, Hornets) the Americans have been peddling anyway.

There's also a geopolitical aspect to this. Given how keenly the Pakee are courting Trump these days, a token purchase of the F-35s would provide insurance against any future shenanigans (wrt Apple outsourcing to India, for example). Look how Qatar and KSA are going all out to woo Trump.

Sure, there may be some integration issues but those are to be expected as we have never operated a US fighter in the past. Over a period of time, we could probably work around them via a 'conditional access' networking protocol similar to the USN Centrix. The Israeli 'Adir' could be a great template.
 
Why? Duplex communication is feasible in this era from an object traveling at hypersonic or super sonic speeds.
Why? Duplex communication is feasible in this era from an object traveling at hypersonic or super sonic speeds.
The electronic technology of the Meteor missile itself is not that advanced. According to public information, the Rafale cannot use the two-way data link of the Meteor missile because the data link of the Mica missile conflicts with that of the Meteor missile.
 
The electronic technology of the Meteor missile itself is not that advanced. According to public information, the Rafale cannot use the two-way data link of the Meteor missile because the data link of the Mica missile conflicts with that of the Meteor missile.
I read that the Rafale only has a oneway data link. it is not a Mica conflict that I'm aware of. All said and done. At its core, the Rafale is 1970-80's tech, based on the Mirage tech of the time.
 
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Imo buying a fighter ac is also about its deterrence value in the minds of our 2 main adversaries. I'd say that the F-35 does that better than a Su-57 ever will. The Chinese are certainly in awe of US mil hardware, given how ardently they copy US designs.

Otoh, it's a better option than the outdated junk (Strykers, Vipers, Hornets) the Americans have been peddling anyway.

There's also a geopolitical aspect to this. Given how keenly the Pakee are courting Trump these days, a token purchase of the F-35s would provide insurance against any future shenanigans (wrt Apple outsourcing to India, for example). Look how Qatar and KSA are going all out to woo Trump.

Sure, there may be some integration issues but those are to be expected as we have never operated a US fighter in the past. Over a period of time, we could probably work around them via a 'conditional access' networking protocol similar to the USN Centrix. The Israeli 'Adir' could be a great template.
Trump instructed Apple chief in-front of the world not to invest in India. Say goodbye to any F-35. Su-57MKI is now literally a lock.
 
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I read that the Rafale only has a oneway data link. it is not a Mica conflict that I'm aware of. All said and one the Rafale is a 1970-80's design, an upgraded Mirage.
You're right, the bi-directional option does exist and is offered for sale, but it's so useless that nobody has bought it: neither France nor the countries to which we've exported the Rafale. That said, with F4 and general network connectivity this special feature has disappeared. :ROFLMAO:
 
It's a pretty good article, you can feel an effort to be objective, but it's not an article written by a specialist: the successful firing of the Rafale is not just a Chinese success, it's shared with Sweden, which supplied the AWACS, without which there would have been no success. What's more, the Indian Spectra lacked data on the PL-15 - an unbridled version unknown even to the French. A library gap. These data are now most certainly recorded. It is also possible that the Rafales were deployed on strike missions without making optimum use of their low-altitude penetration profile. Failure to comply with the optimum use doctrine (nap-of-the-earth profile) probably due to overconfidence and poor coordination. In addition, the Indian pilots may have been surprised by the opposing system, which was far removed from the Red Flag scenarios. Lastly, France did not send an operational delegation to accompany the IAF, as some decision-makers were reluctant to do so. This may have affected the exploitation of the Rafale's specific capabilities.
I don't think it's for PL15. This French system is probably only useful for fixed-frequency PD radars. It is probably useless for modern fighters that are widely equipped with AESA radars.
Especially facing so many radiation sources on the battlefield, most of which are AESA radars with LPI mode, can Rafale interfere with them all at the same time?
 
You're right, the bi-directional option does exist and is offered for sale, but it's so useless that nobody has bought it: neither France nor the countries to which we've exported the Rafale. That said, with F4 and general network connectivity this special feature has disappeared. :ROFLMAO:
The Meteor is only available as a 2 way data link missile. The fact is that the Rafale can't use a 2 way data link. It only has a one way link. It's old tech. Other users of the Meteor missile have 2 way data links. It is operational, mission superior.
 
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The US's and ergo the F-22 definition of Super Cruise is highly specific. what you are talking about is not what is considered "Super cruise" this is further confusion. and most legacy aircraft can do the the kind of "Super cruise" you are describing and have been capable of doing for a long time.
its two different defintions and yes an F-35 could emulate the same thing just like any of the other teen fighters and other 4th generation machines.
its not your fault, the definition was deliberately muddled. once the F-22 did actual Super Cruise everyone jumped in on the bandwagon and said the same thing. They could super cruise too!!
if we use the F-22 definition very few aircraft can super cruise. if we use the "me too definition" where they manipulat the throttle burner and altitude then most aircraft can do it. The F-22 even uses the afterburner to punch through the barrier typically because it saves more fuel to quickly use the burner rather than barrel through the layer forever.

You are way too hung up on what was meant for an American with two choice of aircraft for AS, the F-35 and F-22.

And no, the other two jets can actually supercruise just like the F-22. This has been confirmed via international tenders. No afterburner necessary.

The example of the Su-27 was to show that the F-35 cannot even do that much. It's not designed for supersonic speed.

once you have included the Rafale you have opened up to the F-35s and hornets. The rest is you kicking and screaming that even though the F-35 and Rafale and hornets are extremely similiar in performance that the f-35 has to be excluded because its an F-35!!

The Rafale goes supersonic and can supercruise. It's designed as an ASF.

its immaterial anyway

How is being right immaterial? The information is correct, already confirmed by the Pentagon, GAO, and DOT&E.

not at all the same tech --the Yak 141 used 2 separate engines while the F-35 used a STOVL lift fan that is connected to the main engine, and won an aviation trophy. to say nothing of that fact that the Yak 141 never went into service and meanwhile the F-35 is the only production Mach capable STOVL aircraft. the F-35 owes the rest of its resemblance to the F-22, because LM basically went with the same thing again. its true that LM paid russia for access to the Yak 141 but it was seemingly a fools errand, the layout is similiar, after that there's nothing.
its a common misconception and I don't know why people persist in it.

You can find design changes, it doesn't change the fact that LM did buy into a Soviet STVOL/VTOL program before starting their own design. Regardless it killed your argument about the specialty of LM's STOVL design.

like most of your posts your taking a mix of partial information throwing your own opinions on it and then calling it truth. Deliveries didn't stop because of a lack of sensors. they couldn't certify the jets in testing so delivery was put on hold.
Block 4 is an important upgrade, but we disagree, and others do as well including the Pentagon that its block 4 or nothing or that an F-35 is useless without Block 4.
you take a fact. put your twist on it and then retreat to the fallacous appeal of authority of "the pentagon says!" That isn't why they stopped delivery:
"TR-3 hardware will not be accepted until relevant combat capability is validated in accordance with our users’ expectations,” so they fell behind in testing and by contract can't accept delivery. It has nothing to do with what you claim. you are twisting the words and creating your own logic. then you attempt to say you are more informed. LOL

The Pentagon has confirmed that B4 is necessary to fight China. Without B4, the jet is useless. All the cool stuff you hear about the F-35 is with B4.

B3F is significantly limited in comparison, and even that's not ready.

“So, as far as why we need those [Block 4] capabilities… Most of what we need the F-35 to do rests on the Block 4 electronic warfare capabilities,” said Kelly. “Those rest on the suite of hardware and software, Technology Refresh-3, that supports all that Block 4 EW. That kind of goes back to my E-7, EC-37, EPAWSS, Block 4… You’ve got to have that amount of processing power, transmitting power, speed, and sensors to punch in to truly appear a threat network.”

Regardless, without TR-3 and the processing power it is expected to bring, the consensus among Air Force officials is that Block 4 wouldn’t be able to achieve what the service needs it to for the F-35 program.


"With more than 900 aircraft fielded across the F-35 enterprise, our U.S. and coalition warfighters are operating true cutting-edge fighter capability, strengthening our alliances and partnerships, and building steadfast fifth-generation capacity. The F-35 exhibits superior performance in peacetime and operational missions, serving as a strong deterrent and demonstrating resiliency of the global sustainment solution"

the pentagon testifies to stuff like this all the time. you just make sure to pick the quotes that support your thesis and ignore the rest. The pentagon is a large place and a lot of people. The pentagon never hesitates to say the F-35 is the best thing flying

You do realize that statement means absolutely nothing, right?

The only thing that matters is how many Block 4 jets are available for combat today. And the answer is zero. Absolutely no F-35 operator is ready for combat at the highest level. With Block 3I/F, the F-35 is more like an F-16 with stealth.

you miss the point completely and it goes to show that your "Real information" is often schizophrenic. The F-15 is an air superiortiy fighter and even YOU listed it as such. I point out that the F-35 could beat the F-15 in the air and you say "well its not as good as you think it is!!" The F-15 can defeat an air superiority fighter but you won't count the F-35 as an air superiority fighter because it has to move the throttle in BVR? its incredibly arbitrary. the aircraft that gets shotdown is an ASF, but the aircraft shoots down the ASF is not ASF. Ok!

To circle back to the original point the F-35 can do Air Superiority it has plenty of attributes and is comparable to the aircraft you list yourself.
imagine if Trump got a wild hair and decided to send India 10 F-35As but the bombs won't be here for 6 months. are you really going to tell me that Indian Air Force pilots can't make the F-35 an air superiority fighter if they had the chance? I bet pretty heavily that they could. And if India was given such a gift would they reject it? I highly doubt it. I presume Indian pilots would see what most F-35 pilots see...

The F-15C is an ASF. The F-15E is a strike jet developed using the F-15A/C's airframe. It's heavier, slower, and significantly less performing. For example, the F-35A can climb at 300 m/s, but the F-15E does lesser than 250 m/s. The F-15E's TWR is 0.86 or so and the F-15C's TWR is 1.2+. Even with a much higher fuel fraction than either F-15s, the F-35's TWR is 0.9-1.

So, the F-35A's kinematics is superior to the F-15EX, which is a heavier modernization of the F-15E. And the F-22 is in a league of its own, comparable to the Typhoon and Rafale.

Even a Jaguar can shoot down the F-22. That doesn't make it an ASF. To be an ASF, you need high altitude, high speed, and high performance. Everything else is secondary, no matter how much people claim otherwise.

The problem with the messaging is people don't realize the F-35's avionics are so far ahead that the F-22's avionics are simply junk, which indirectly provides a certain level of superiority against less advanced adversaries. Stick the same avionics into the F-22 and people will sing an entirely different tune.

And when you compare the F-35 to equivalent adversary jets, the Su-57 and F-22 can eat the F-35 alive even with lower stealth and sensors, 'cause kinematics makes that much of a difference. And we have already seen in Yemen that the F-35 is vulnerable to IR sensors.

And upcoming 6th gen jets are highly centered around kinematics, not just sensors and stealth.
 
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I don't think it's for PL15. This French system is probably only useful for fixed-frequency PD radars. It is probably useless for modern fighters that are widely equipped with AESA radars.
Especially facing so many radiation sources on the battlefield, most of which are AESA radars with LPI mode, can Rafale interfere with them all at the same time?
Yes, that was the aim of the DEDIRA PEA, to go from one to several simultaneous signals, and this PEA has been in operational deployment for a long time.