Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis

[Speedster1]

Finally a report from HTs Shishir Gupta. Some highlights:
- IAF used 1 Scalp and 1 Brahmos in tandem against Pak airbases to increase hit probability.
- S-400 shot an Ereiye flying 315km inside Pak!
- S-400 engaged 11 targets overall
- PAF is confirmed to have lost 1 Herc, 1 JF-17, 2 Vipers, both in the air and on ground
- GBAD units destroyed included 1 LY-80 (Harop) and 1 HQ-9 (ASM)
- IN was ready to unleash a volley on Karachi harbour but called it off after the DGMOs talked.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/four-air-launched-missile-strikes-by-iaf-on-may-10-and-pakistan-was-on-mat-101748052752432.html#google_vignette

 

[CATS @hunter]

The USN helped us out and gave up their 24 slots in the production line. Or it would have taken a long time, if we were put on the next available. When we bought the FA-18E, we actually bought them off of the USN.
It may be similar with China, they are giving Pakistan some of their production slots.
Again I haven't followed China or Pakistan, so I'm guessing

If that's the case then china is playing a huge gamble, remember Pakistan haven't fully paid the J10CE deal, they brought in a loan from china, the loan clearing period has the deadline of 2032, and the j-35 which are they gonna get again it will be Chinese giving them in a loan, china ain't gonna ship production to pakistan, they have to depend upon the spare parts top,
If pakistan goes with the same route as before, buying jets on loan rather strengthing it's air defence, no jets gonna save them,
PPL really underestimate the runway damages, coping with it can be repaired within couple of hours but not factoring that the enemy is only few hundred kilometres behind, any small window is significant time to totally anhilated the air bases,

 

[_Anonymous_]

That was a remote strike carried out by the S400 under the command and data relay of the A50. Do you think the Phalcon AWACS can perform data relay with the S400? Will Russia allow it? Especially after the war between Russia and Ukraine.

What makes you think the Russians won't permit it ? More to the point what makes you think we'd purchase such a system without such prior agreements ?

The Russians sold us the S-400 with the ~ 250 kms range 48N6DM / 48N6E3 & ~ 400 kms range 40N6E , both of which the Russians didn't sell to the Chinese . Why ? Good question - coz your reputation for cut copy paste precedes you.

In fact I have it from a reliable source whenever the Russians want to use these functions on a computer they merely say - Chinese that content which as you may have rightly deduced is slang for cut copy paste that content.

Moreover that isn't all , the Russkies are offering us the new anti-ballistic missiles 77N6-N and 77N6-N1 which just entered service in 2022 as well as & this is very important ,the S-500 ABM system .

You see the level of trust we enjoy with the Russians is of a different order altogether. They leased us an SSN & then helped us design & construct the SSBN INS Arihant as well as the sister submarines of the INS Arihant beginning with the heart of these systems - the N reactor.

We also owe Zhongguo a debt of gratitude . If you didn't do what you did to the Russkies , they'd not have appreciated our honesty & rigorous adhering to all agreements which means no copying & reverse engineering. Thanks to Han duplcity the Russians have a new found respect for us which extends to trusting us with their family jewels.

Don't be surprised if tomorrow you come across news the Russkies sold us the Yasen or Borei class of submarines along with the ToT.

 

[randomradio]

Reports- Indian Women Pilots played a very key role in Sindoor

- Tally of terrorists killed in strike 1 is now 170
- Bahawalpur was not fully evacuated- many terrorists had remained in the facility for some reason (probably thinking India will never strike tthat deep). Those accounted for biggest terrorist losses.
- 40-50 personnel of PA forces killed

Makes sense since Saeed's family members were caught in the strike too.

 

[Lolwa]

Seriously?, relying on a Pakistani for such an interview?. Imagine, interviewing a russian about Battle of Kyiv.

Every US-based military analysis channel is a disappointment. As I was saying, Americans are generally self-obsessed midwits.

American analysis on warfare is usually mediocre unless you get access to serving military or DoD guys.

 

[Asterion Moloc]

View attachment 43650

View attachment 43651
At least three Western fighter jets were shot down. The details of the crashes of 7785, 7786, and 7787 have not been disclosed.

I like how confidently you spout yiur 731IQ BS here.
Lets breakdown it logically:
"Atleast three", the tweet screenshot yiu posted literally said both pilots ejected from twin seater F/A-18, hence MB mentions lives saved, not aircraft lost.
So, logically yiur statement should be like atleast 1 aircraft might be lost with both pilots safe.

Next bunch of words are "Western fighter jets",
unless yiu think JF-17 is a western fighter jet to honor NG for starting Super-7 project it does not make sense logically.

Next bunch of words are "were shot down. The details of the crashes of 7785, 7786, and 7787 have not been disclosed."
Again repeating myself, MB does not care about aircraft loss via shotdown, accident, friendly fire etc and not even ejections just lives of pilots saved hence the first screen shot yiu shared already has pilot 7787 and 7784 from F/A-18 twin seater included as mentioned by MB saying both pilot were safe.

---------------------

This is not new, yiu confidently shared the J-10C deal of PAF leaked by Indian hackers as released by Pakistan last time and have not replied to me yet when I corrected yiu there. I wonder why?

Obviously the Pakistani is talking nonsense. Pakistan announced the details of the J-10C deal a long time ago. It borrowed 10.1 billion RMB from China with an annual interest rate of 4.15%.View attachment 42639View attachment 42640View attachment 42641

Well, How does Martin Baker know then?

As I replied above, MB cares about lives of pilot it saved not ejection or crashes or accidents. Think logically even if successful ejection happens there is no chance pilot will survive it. So, how will MB know to claim pilot is safe unless the transponder you speak of will even share pilot vitals to MB for them to know, which I think is not allowed by any airforce on Earth or possible reliably to know.

To answer your question about how does MB know, well they are informed after a successful ejection and pilot is safe by the airforce/navy that on so and so jet your so and so model MB seat worked perfect and our pilots are safe etc, which the MB will put out in their press release. They even have a watch exclusively for pilots who have successfully ejected.

MBI – Martin-Baker

MBI

martin-baker.com

Well the IAF did precisely hit a hanger which contained SAAB AWACS according to former PAF Marshall. The hangar collapsed and killed a PAF squadron leader along with 5 other PAF personal and injured at least 12 other PAF ppl working at the hangar. Such an incident did not happen in the Indian side. You know why? Because we don't have air defence systems that have a tough time seeing things like your people. Lol.
Say hello to one of the holes IAF made:

View attachment 43656

There is cemented carbide chong (M H Yang) in PeeDF, even he mentioned something like "that lives lost is biggest loss than equipment loss" but pakees of PeeDF are like nothing happened to saab erieye but some how 5/6( as per sindh CM) PAF personnel were crushed under hangar debris, 40 odd has injuries. Seeing this level coping that chong shocked.

But our resident hanese is different it looks like.

 

[Lolwa]

Does India have the capability to track PLA movement incase of conflict?

We have our own satellite constellation called NAVIC similar to GPS. We also have access to America sats through the BECA,COMCASA deal. But Americans can't be trusted anymore.

 

[randomradio]

relax. breathe. repeat: rafale is just a fighter plane.

It's not about the Rafale, but the missile that did the shooting. The aircraft wreckage was 75 km from the border when it was potentially flying low and was flying away from the shooter. It means the missile can make the kinda kills no other AAMs can. And it could also mean the midcourse updates were likely provided by satellites.

That means within the limitations of the missile's design, the Chinese can now shoot down any aerial target anywhere in the world. So if they make a 1000-1500 km SAM, they can then engage any target within that range without needing an air asset to cue the missile. And that in turn means, they can engage the IAF up to Telangana.

To that extent, while we are chasing AWACS, which IMHO has always been a bad idea, the Russians have canceled their A-100 program and the Americans are planning to do the same with Wedgetail. We need to see if all this results in a cancelation of our own AWACS program.

That's how big of a deal it is. So the type isn't important, the conditions are.

 

[Asterion Moloc]

Look what I found browsing MB website for ejection notices.

Ejection Notices – Martin-Baker

View the latest ejection notices from around the world.

martin-baker.com

7784 and 7785 were both pakees from PAF mirage 5 ROSE

On the 15th April 2025, a Dassault Mirage V ROSE crashed in Ratta Tibba, Pakistan, after a reported technical malfunction.

Both pilots successfully ejected using the Martin-Baker PRM4 seat.

7786 happened on 20/04/2025

Date: 20/04/2025

Details: Both aircrew successfully ejected using a Martin-Baker Mk10 Ejection Seat.

Awaiting further information….

two ejections happened on 20th April but MB kept only one life saved, maybe the second pilot did not survive it? there are few ejection notices with no information like no:7771

While 7787 and 7788 happened on May 6th

On May 6th, a USN F/A-18F Super Hornet from VFA-11 crashed into the Red Sea after a failed arrestment occurred during a night landing on the USS Harry S Truman. Both aircrew successfully ejected using the Martin-Baker US14A (NACES) Seat.

We have our own satellite constellation called NAVIC similar to GPS. We also have access to America sats through the BECA,COMCASA deal. But Americans can't be trusted anymore.

NAVIC or GPS are different from observation satellites. We have few covering pakistan and china border mostly not global level. SBS-3 plans to address this:

Redirect Notice

 

[RationalGuy]

I like how confidently you spout yiur 731IQ BS here.
Lets breakdown it logically:
"Atleast three", the tweet screenshot yiu posted literally said both pilots ejected from twin seater F/A-18, hence MB mentions lives saved, not aircraft lost.
So, logically yiur statement should be like atleast 1 aircraft might be lost with both pilots safe.

Next bunch of words are "Western fighter jets",
unless yiu think JF-17 is a western fighter jet to honor NG for starting Super-7 project it does not make sense logically.

Next bunch of words are "were shot down. The details of the crashes of 7785, 7786, and 7787 have not been disclosed."
Again repeating myself, MB does not care about aircraft loss via shotdown, accident, friendly fire etc and not even ejections just lives of pilots saved hence the first screen shot yiu shared already has pilot 7787 and 7784 from F/A-18 twin seater included as mentioned by MB saying both pilot were safe.

---------------------

This is not new, yiu confidently shared the J-10C deal of PAF leaked by Indian hackers as released by Pakistan last time and have not replied to me yet when I corrected yiu there. I wonder why?




As I replied above, MB cares about lives of pilot it saved not ejection or crashes or accidents. Think logically even if successful ejection happens there is no chance pilot will survive it. So, how will MB know to claim pilot is safe unless the transponder you speak of will even share pilot vitals to MB for them to know, which I think is not allowed by any airforce on Earth or possible reliably to know.

To answer your question about how does MB know, well they are informed after a successful ejection and pilot is safe by the airforce/navy that on so and so jet your so and so model MB seat worked perfect and our pilots are safe etc, which the MB will put out in their press release. They even have a watch exclusively for pilots who have successfully ejected.

MBI – Martin-Baker

MBI

martin-baker.com

There is cemented carbide chong (M H Yang) in PeeDF, even he mentioned something like "that lives lost is biggest loss than equipment loss" but pakees of PeeDF are like nothing happened to saab erieye but some how 5/6( as per sindh CM) PAF personnel were crushed under hangar debris, 40 odd has injuries. Seeing this level coping that chong shocked.

But our resident hanese is different it looks like.

Maybe according to P0rkies the 40+ PAF personnel in that hangar were engaging in the time honored Pakistani tradition of gang banging.

I don't believe J-36 is meant for penetration. But the H-XX could become a threat.



Quite unlikely. The F414 AMCAs are largely to certify the airframe and get some avionics working to a specific baseline level. By the time the definitive version is made, both cockpit and avionics will need modernization.



Don't expect the design stage to start anytime before 2035. As long as the first flight is before 2045, we will have a winner. We need IOC in 2052.

There's a chance we could go for an NG version of AMCA as stopgap to make up for AHCA delays by half a decade. So late 2050s.

Can AMCA with GE414 at least take on J35?

 

[RationalGuy]

It's not about the Rafale, but the missile that did the shooting. The aircraft wreckage was 75 km from the border when it was potentially flying low and was flying away from the shooter. It means the missile can make the kinda kills no other AAMs can. And it could also mean the midcourse updates were likely provided by satellites.

That means within the limitations of the missile's design, the Chinese can now shoot down any aerial target anywhere in the world. So if they make a 1000-1500 km SAM, they can then engage any target within that range without needing an air asset to cue the missile. And that in turn means, they can engage the IAF up to Telangana.

To that extent, while we are chasing AWACS, which IMHO has always been a bad idea, the Russians have canceled their A-100 program and the Americans are planning to do the same with Wedgetail. We need to see if all this results in a cancelation of our own AWACS program.

That's how big of a deal it is. So the type isn't important, the conditions are.

Can Bharat so something similar in 5-7 years? Mid course update for AAM from satellites? Does any of our next 52 sats address this?

 

[RationalGuy]

What makes you think the Russians won't permit it ? More to the point what makes you think we'd purchase such a system without such prior agreements ?

The Russians sold us the S-400 with the ~ 250 kms range 48N6DM / 48N6E3 & ~ 400 kms range 40N6E , both of which the Russians didn't sell to the Chinese . Why ? Good question - coz your reputation for cut copy paste precedes you.

In fact I have it from a reliable source whenever the Russians want to use these functions on a computer they merely say - Chinese that content which as you may have rightly deduced is slang for cut copy paste that content.

Moreover that isn't all , the Russkies are offering us the new anti-ballistic missiles 77N6-N and 77N6-N1 which just entered service in 2022 as well as & this is very important ,the S-500 ABM system .

You see the level of trust we enjoy with the Russians is of a different order altogether. They leased us an SSN & then helped us design & construct the SSBN INS Arihant as well as the sister submarines of the INS Arihant beginning with the heart of these systems - the N reactor.

We also owe Zhongguo a debt of gratitude . If you didn't do what you did to the Russkies , they'd not have appreciated our honesty & rigorous adhering to all agreements which means no copying & reverse engineering. Thanks to Han duplcity the Russians have a new found respect for us which extends to trusting us with their family jewels.

Don't be surprised if tomorrow you come across news the Russkies sold us the Yasen or Borei class of submarines along with the ToT.

With S5 class me thinks we don't need Borei class.

If that's the case then china is playing a huge gamble, remember Pakistan haven't fully paid the J10CE deal, they brought in a loan from china, the loan clearing period has the deadline of 2032, and the j-35 which are they gonna get again it will be Chinese giving them in a loan, china ain't gonna ship production to pakistan, they have to depend upon the spare parts top,
If pakistan goes with the same route as before, buying jets on loan rather strengthing it's air defence, no jets gonna save them,
PPL really underestimate the runway damages, coping with it can be repaired within couple of hours but not factoring that the enemy is only few hundred kilometres behind, any small window is significant time to totally anhilated the air bases,

Those holes were caused by 15 Brahmos and probably equal amount of SCALP. What will happen when hundreds of Brahmos, Scalp, Prithvi and Pralays with the special type of warheads that you showed me rain on their airbases? And let's be honest HQ9 ain't gonna intercept even 5 Pralays and as I said earlier I would be very impressed if it can shoot down Prithvi from 1980s even lol.

 

[RationalGuy]

Finally a report from HTs Shishir Gupta. Some highlights:
- IAF used 1 Scalp and 1 Brahmos in tandem against Pak airbases to increase hit probability.
- S-400 shot an Ereiye flying 315km inside Pak!
- S-400 engaged 11 targets overall
- PAF is confirmed to have lost 1 Herc, 1 JF-17, 2 Vipers, both in the air and on ground
- GBAD units destroyed included 1 LY-80 (Harop) and 1 HQ-9 (ASM)
- IN was ready to unleash a volley on Karachi harbour but called it off after the DGMOs talked.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/four-air-launched-missile-strikes-by-iaf-on-may-10-and-pakistan-was-on-mat-101748052752432.html#google_vignette

Man, if the IN got into action it would have been a total turkey shoot for our sea men and women

Chong provided details of India Military movement post pahalgam attacks to Porkee..... Satellites were redirected to track Indian Military movement which Indian intelligence believes was passed over to Porkland.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1925774943700070589

Previously in this forum there was an info graphic of our laser systems and it had a ground to space anti satellite laser systems. We need to fast track that project ASAP and have it deployed in 5 years. In the next clash if Chinese attempt to do something then we need to use our ground to space lasers to dazzle them to show our resolve.

 

[RationalGuy]

In all of this, you forgot our ace in the hole against China: the Indian Navy. The Chinese jugular, i.e., Malacca Strait (where 80% of China's oil & gas trade and 65% of overall trade passes through) is well within our reach, and we've enough firepower to make them bleed economically. Despite PLAN's impressive fleet, they can't deploy and fight that far away from their home. Bypassing that was the reason behind their investments in BRI & CPEC. The IN will do more harm to the Chinese than IAF & IA put together, methinks (IAF is in the worst shape out of the 3 services).

The Chineze are working hard towards nuclear carriers but I think it will take until 2030 for them to have a nuclear fleet. We may see a Chinese nuclear carrier led strike force in the IOR by 2035 or at most 2040. It's likely this strike force will have J35 stealth jets and advanced AWACS. So we need to speed up and improve our anti ship hypersonic missile kill chain to make sure PLAN cannot get within 1,500 km of our mainland. Fortunately in this area we seem to be looking ahead and are testing our LrAShM. What we now need to work on is making the killchain for anti ship and anti carrier operations more lethal, meaning more satellites for tracking as well, as well as underwater sensors and sonars.

 

[Shan]

It's not about the Rafale, but the missile that did the shooting. The aircraft wreckage was 75 km from the border when it was potentially flying low and was flying away from the shooter. It means the missile can make the kinda kills no other AAMs can. And it could also mean the midcourse updates were likely provided by satellites.

That means within the limitations of the missile's design, the Chinese can now shoot down any aerial target anywhere in the world. So if they make a 1000-1500 km SAM, they can then engage any target within that range without needing an air asset to cue the missile. And that in turn means, they can engage the IAF up to Telangana.

To that extent, while we are chasing AWACS, which IMHO has always been a bad idea, the Russians have canceled their A-100 program and the Americans are planning to do the same with Wedgetail. We need to see if all this results in a cancelation of our own AWACS program.

That's how big of a deal it is. So the type isn't important, the conditions are.

Are we now sure that it was indeed a PL - 15 ? I thought there was still confirmation to come regarding this issue. Let's wait shall we?

 

[Milspec]

Even if the Indians shoot down a JF-17, no one will laugh at the Indian Air Force. But they did nothing except punch a few holes in Pakistani airports.

As I said, you have zero idea of what you are talking about.

 

[Deans_50]

Makes sense since Saeed's family members were caught in the strike too.

This is a little understood success of Op Sindhoor. This was probably the most heavily defended target in Pak and it was not evacuated after Pahalgam because the PAF would have assumed we don't have the capability, or the price we'd have to pay was too high.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

View attachment 43650

View attachment 43651
At least three Western fighter jets were shot down. The details of the crashes of 7785, 7786, and 7787 have not been disclosed.

Martin Baker is not an intellligence agency.

All they do is - when someone informs them, they put a number. Thats all.

The idea that martin Baker is going to give proof of war casualities is just stupid.

They sell ejection chairs

 

[South block]

Finally a report from HTs Shishir Gupta. Some highlights:
- IAF used 1 Scalp and 1 Brahmos in tandem against Pak airbases to increase hit probability.
- S-400 shot an Ereiye flying 315km inside Pak!
- S-400 engaged 11 targets overall
- PAF is confirmed to have lost 1 Herc, 1 JF-17, 2 Vipers, both in the air and on ground
- GBAD units destroyed included 1 LY-80 (Harop) and 1 HQ-9 (ASM)
- IN was ready to unleash a volley on Karachi harbour but called it off after the DGMOs talked.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/four-air-launched-missile-strikes-by-iaf-on-may-10-and-pakistan-was-on-mat-101748052752432.html#google_vignette

Not verified

 

[Speedster1]

Not verified

That's for the IAF to do in its own time. Shishir Gupta is one of the few credible defence beat reporters we have though. Probably has some well-placed inside sources in the MoD and the services