How did F404 and F414 ever get approved for procurement?

[Barcid]

Another example of "superior" Russian Engineering:

Russian Zhuk-ME Radar Undermined Combat Capability of Indian MiG-29s

The hacker group Black Mirror has released documents detailing chronic technical problems with the Zhuk-ME radar station installed on Indian fighters.

militarnyi.com

 

[Optimist]

The F/A-18E was originally designed as a "daytime light fighter" – such a rotten foundation that it's beyond salvaging.

The idiocy is just getting sad now, Along with posting charts he doesn't understand
It's almost to the point where we shouldn't mock the disabled, or in PC, the cognitively challenged

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Then why does VVS keep ordering more Su30s variants? Your entire assertion is stupid, just because USN is choosing to operate both F18E and F35C together doesn't mean that F35 can't replace F18E, just like VVS keeps operating flankers alongside Su57.


Fake news, never happened. Still waiting for you show which fighter has higher crash rate than Mig29K in first 15 years of service. Don't run away from this question bro


It proves that Russian planes are low quality junk, thats why IN is kicking Mig29K out after just 20 years of service. You know like we kick it on the backside?


Whats there to explain? It exploded for whatever reason, how does it matter for IN? Indian navy didn't suffer because of enterprise explosion. Indian navy did suffer due to explosion in the peace of junk called Vikramaditya, whose cost was escalated 3.5 times by blackmailing a navy officer. There is evidence for it. So I know India was fleeced by Russia in that deal.


Tell me something I don't know, moron. Of course deck based fighters have lower availability than land based. Where the hell did I deny that? Problem is Mig29K availability is too low even for a deck based fighter. Thats why IN is kicking it out.

MiG-29K planes face operation deficiencies: CAG | India News - Times of India

India News: India's mainstream naval fighter jet plane MiG-29K faces operational deficiencies due to defects in engines, airframe and fly-by-wire system leading t

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

By the way, nice try comparing availability of American fighters amongst themselves. You don't have balls to compare availability rates of American fighters with Russian ones, because you know how that will end. Both Mig29K and Su30MKI have had significant availability issues. Which is why IN is moving away from Russian junks and Russia is losing its only export customer of deck based fighters. Now keep crying about how superior Russian engineering is


Its not a notion, its reality. Rafale has been taking off from INS Hansa, and soon it will be taking off from INS Vikramaditya. It doesn't strike a nerve with me, I am happy with Navy's choice, but Russians should really be worried, nobody wants to buy their "superior" engineered fighters


Harriers already served 32 years with IN bro, I know accepting reality is hard for somebody high on russian vodka. but thats how it is. Junk Mig29K is going to have just have over half the service life of Harriers in IN.


Its alright dude, don't cry, there are basic facts that you can't change:
1. INS Vikramaditya suffered accidents during sea trials and has suffered multiple accidents since. Its a shit ship for which Indian navy was forced to pay more than 3.5 times. We accepted that with a bitter pill as we didn't have any options. But now India has carrier building capability of its own, and we won't let Russian thieves fleece us any longer.
2. Same with Mig29K, this piece of shit was cancelled in Russia. IN revived it from the dead, and because of Indian money, Russia was able to develop it and used it even on its own aircraft carriers. But because of poor russian engineering, the aircraft had record high crash rate and record low availability. Navy was forced to seek replacements for it much earlier than planned, which has resulted in lot of money being diverted which could have been used for purchasing more ships.
3. Nowadays Russia doesn't have a carrier itself as its only carrier is being "repaired" since last 9 years. If superior Russian engineers need help, they can ask India, we have an Indian built carrier proudly serving our navy.

If you still want to continue with your delusion that Russian engineering is superior, please carry on, its nothing to me. Just know that nobody else outside Russia accepts it. Thats why "superior" Russian weapons see no export success, and Russia is even losing its biggest historical markets.

Buying more Su-27 series is of course because the Su-57 is still not finalized — right（IOC）, obviously.

Didn't I already send you the screenshot from that link you gave? I counted: 93 entries, and that's not even all of them. I just love watching you lose your cool.

Oh, so we can also pin every accident or malfunction on the Vikramaditya on Russia too? Then by that logic, the explosion of the 971 Chakra submarine and the 877 submarine blowing up — was it at the dock? Two of them? — that was also because Russian officials pocketed a little extra bribe money?

As for what comes next, I'd really like you to hurry up and refute that official report the Americans submitted to Congress. You should go tell the Americans that the British Harrier can serve for 32 years, not 20. That the F-18 doesn't need a catapult, but the F-35C is such a piece of junk it still needs Tencent tech — so clearly the correct path is the F-18ST and a Ford-class carrier modified with a ski jump, not continuing to operate whatever the hell the F-35 is...

Oh, and that line about Russians lining up to buy weapons from India — I've heard that in China too. （Topics like exporting J-11Bs to replace Su-35s, Type 052Ds to replace the 22350s, and Type 99As to replace the T-14 — they're wildly popular in our corner of the Chinese internet too. Every single time, brutal reality slaps them right in the face, yet the "Grand Marshal" enthusiasts just can't get enough of it.） Truly that special sense of humor shared by brotherly nations. But honestly, if the Russians were going to buy, I'm pretty sure they'd go for the 001A or the 004.


Speaking too much inevitably leads to slips of the tongue; the more you try to salvage your dignity, the more you stand to lose.
That look on your face as you stare dumbfounded at the official US aircraft service life curve — truly handsome.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Another example of "superior" Russian Engineering:

Russian Zhuk-ME Radar Undermined Combat Capability of Indian MiG-29s

The hacker group Black Mirror has released documents detailing chronic technical problems with the Zhuk-ME radar station installed on Indian fighters.

militarnyi.com

The MiG-29 series lacks an impressive combat record like the F-18—such as a single aircraft shooting down three F-15s In Kuwait.
As a fan of Russia, I am deeply saddened.

This proves the Indian authorities were mistaken; it would have been so much better to choose the F-18 from the start.

The idiocy is just getting sad now, Along with posting charts he doesn't understand
It's almost to the point where we shouldn't mock the disabled, or in PC, the cognitively challenged

Hyper, 99% of what you say is wrong but I admire the persistence of not using google

I hope you learn how to use Google properly.
Whether or not you can understand the charts is one thing, but as long as you have a pair of hands, you can use Google.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

Another example of "superior" Russian Engineering:

Russian Zhuk-ME Radar Undermined Combat Capability of Indian MiG-29s

The hacker group Black Mirror has released documents detailing chronic technical problems with the Zhuk-ME radar station installed on Indian fighters.

militarnyi.com

Oh, right, I forgot to tell you—the weapons Big Daddy America sold to Qatar, when faced with the missiles launched from Israel to strike the negotiation venue in Doha, Qatar, were totally oblivious and just stood there like stunned ducks. This left the Qatari Prime Minister (and Foreign Minister) so furious that he was frothing at the mouth the whole damn time.

A dog that doesn't bite its master is a good dog.
How could American-made weapons ever strike America's own daddy?

Available now. Reliable and trustworthy.

 

[Saaho]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

All you are proving by starting threads like this is you have started reading news maybe about a year back and have no understanding of how steadily US India relations were built over decades.

US gave us waiver for nuclear deal, gave us CAATSA waiver, gave waiver to Chahbahar port. We have also imported lot of important defence equipment from US such as P8I, C17, M777, Apache etc.

US formed quad with a couple of countries to encircle china.

It is only after trump came in that India US relations have started going down.

And before I read another stupid post about going for Russian engines, let me tell you, Russians are no better. Checkout how they fleeced us on INS Vikramaditya, how they tried to cheat us on PAKFA. Check the historical availablity rate of Su30 MKI and current availability rate of Mig27K.

At least American equipment is still world class. Russian equipment is so bad no one wants to buy it and they basically try to fund new versions of their equipment using Indian money.

By the way, most navy ships use American engines too. Works like a charm. Maybe you want to dismantle all of them too since you don't trust anything coming from USA

Dude, go in my posting history. I have been asking this for very long time. I am one of the founding members of this forum.

I will NEVER trust USA for ANY main-line Indian weapons system. And I have been yelling it for long that India should have stockpiled it. Trump is an year old headache. We are facing engine delay since 2022 or so.

If we knew we are going to use F404 or F414, we should have stockpiled these engines in 100s of 1000s since 2009 or so. Go in my past posts I have said it quite a few times.

Secondly, who trusts USA, AT ALL? We had a chance to expand our platform to M88-p4 but we did not take it. We had a chance to power it using RD33-MK but it was NEVER done as a derisking measure!

 

[Saaho]

@Saaho what is you opinion on the latest submarine deal with Germany, They already once put us under sanctions for military/ dual use tech between 1998 to 2023

I think we should have done what China had done. Buy the damn AIP (in parallel to DRDO's effort) to equip those french subs with it. We should have tested it and started putting it on Kalavari subs during refit.

China bought Swedish AIP engine. We should have bought German AIP (fuel cell) and integrate it in Scorpene.

 

[Barcid]

Dude, go in my posting history. I have been asking this for very long time. I am one of the founding members of this forum.

I will NEVER trust USA for ANY main-line Indian weapons system. And I have been yelling it for long that India should have stockpiled it. Trump is an year old headache. We are facing engine delay since 2022 or so.

If we knew we are going to use F404 or F414, we should have stockpiled these engines in 100s of 1000s since 2009 or so. Go in my past posts I have said it quite a few times.

Secondly, who trusts USA, AT ALL? We had a chance to expand our platform to M88-p4 but we did not take it. We had a chance to power it using RD33-MK but it was NEVER done as a derisking measure!

Some delay would be there since the order was placed so late. Stockpiling is not possible under current setup as HAL wouldn't place orders for engines before it got fighters orders itself, as they are just interested in following procedures, they don't care about the country. Every institution, even IAF does that. I remember reading somewhere by IAF chief that they couldn't place initial orders of some equipment while it was in development, because later on audit happens and they get called out for placing orders without proper milestones being met. Our audit system, which was meant to root corruption, actually delays procurement.

I remember HAL making big claims about how they are initiating work on mk1a even before MoD formally places the order and would be able to deliver LCA quickly, but once when the order was placed, they flatly said the first delivery will be only after 3 years as per contract, which clearly means that they did shit work before orders were placed.

Its another matter that the original delivery timeline has already been delayed by 2.5 years and HAL has been trying to put blame on engines whereas its clear that even if engines had been delivered on time, they were in no position to deliver the aircraft.

Agree with you that we should have gone for M88-4. I think it was DRDO who found $250 million for the engine core too expensive, but somehow billions of dollars spent on imported engines isn't too expensive.

I also agree that we should initiate talks for RD-33MK, but only if Russia agrees for full TOT including hot core tech, no point importing inferior Russian engines.

I think we should have done what China had done. Buy the damn AIP (in parallel to DRDO's effort) to equip those french subs with it. We should have tested it and started putting it on Kalavari subs during refit.

China bought Swedish AIP engine. We should have bought German AIP (fuel cell) and integrate it in Scorpene.

French AIP is two generations behind what DRDO is developing. French have gone for SSNs so their SSK AIP tech is quite old.

 

[batman]

I also agree that we should initiate talks for RD-33MK, but only if Russia agrees for full TOT including hot core tech, no point importing inferior Russian engines.

Literally no single country in the world would do this and even if it's second or third best product available, it's certainly much better than something which hasn't even been operational.

French AIP is two generations behind what DRDO is developing. French have gone for SSNs so their SSK AIP tech is quite old

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[Barcid]

Literally no single country in the world would do this and even if it's second or third best product available, it's certainly much better than something which hasn't even been operational.

No country would even do MKI and Brahmos deals, but Russia and India did it and it was win win for both. Then Russia's economy recovered and oil price increased, so they became cocky and started messing with us.
But after 4.5 years of war, they are economically exhausted. Less than 100 orders for their 5th gen, no orders at all for Mig35, no progress on Su75, they are just exporting some flanker variants, thats all. Russian aerospace industry will shrink significantly if they don't get orders soon. India has been bearing the brunt of corrupt Trump.
Now its time for both countries to come together again and sign deals that will define the next 25 years, like MKI and Brahmos did previously.

Can you elaborate on this?

French have the Mesma AIP which is steam engine based. It is noisy and may be obsolete for today's sonars. This AIP is also operational on Pakistan's Agosta 90B submarines. The Chinese Yuan class submarine which has been exported to Pakistan uses Stirling engine based AIP which is somewhat quieter. What DRDO is developing is fuel cell based AIP which has no moving parts and hence will be quietest of all.

 

[screambowl]

I also agree that we should initiate talks for RD-33MK, but only if Russia agrees for full TOT including hot core tech, no point importing inferior Russian engines.

This is correct, keeping in mind not to import inferior technology. On other thread I was rather debating if India gets Izd30 as well.

 

[Saaho]

Some delay would be there since the order was placed so late. Stockpiling is not possible under current setup as HAL wouldn't place orders for engines before it got fighters orders itself, as they are just interested in following procedures, they don't care about the country. Every institution, even IAF does that. I remember reading somewhere by IAF chief that they couldn't place initial orders of some equipment while it was in development, because later on audit happens and they get called out for placing orders without proper milestones being met. Our audit system, which was meant to root corruption, actually delays procurement.

I know,

Personally, I am now of the opinion that parliament gets hit by Pakistani air attack and/or our prized A/C gets sunk and then there is bloodbath on all of the beaurocrats and their precious processes. Not by a commettie but by armed forces themself. Remember 62? It lead to death of Nehru and total removal of VK Krishnamenon type of thinking. We need that again it seems.

China, a supposedly communist country can get all of these stupid paper pushing things done faster. Also, stockpilling is a very standard practice in industry to avoid supply shocks. But no~

 

[jetray]

US gave us waiver for nuclear deal, gave us CAATSA waiver, gave waiver to Chahbahar port. We have also imported lot of important defence equipment from US such as P8I, C17, M777, Apache etc.

yeah they were doing charity by giving us those stuff for free.
India was the last customer for c17 , it was orders from India which kept their assembly line running.

US formed quad with a couple of countries to encircle china.

oh, this is also was done for Indias well being.

It is only after trump came in that India US relations have started going down.

Ok , Biden was kissing Modi's *censored* using khalistanis.
They tried all the dirty tricks to run down India economically & hinder our progress, all they wanted is that we need to attack china that we refused.

Only stupid morons will believe that it is all due to Trump. US policy will be same even after trump goes. US has already kicked the bucket on taiwan , just a matter of time before they start sending more arms to pakistan.

And before I read another stupid post about going for Russian engines, let me tell you, Russians are no better. Checkout how they fleeced us on INS Vikramaditya, how they tried to cheat us on PAKFA. Check the historical availablity rate of Su30 MKI and current availability rate of Mig27K.

At least American equipment is still world class. Russian equipment is so bad no one wants to buy it and they basically try to fund new versions of their equipment using Indian money.

If you are an idiot , no system will be good enough for you. No country will give their best tech, you take the second or third gen tech and then work on your own to catch up on it.

By the way, most navy ships use American engines too. Works like a charm. Maybe you want to dismantle all of them too since you don't trust anything coming from USA

All western tech needs to be mollycoddled , maintained regularly with strict service regime only tthen they work as expected. Further more every country hypes up their tech prowess. We all saw what happened to their glorious patriot systems in ukraine and gulf.

 

[Barcid]

yeah they were doing charity by giving us those stuff for free.
India was the last customer for c17 , it was orders from India which kept their assembly line running.

You got comprehension issues? Who claimed it was for free? Do you think Russian stuff is for free?

oh, this is also was done for Indias well being.

Again, so? India benefitted from it, thats what matters.

Ok , Biden was kissing Modi's *censored* using khalistanis.
They tried all the dirty tricks to run down India economically & hinder our progress, all they wanted is that we need to attack china that we refused.

Only stupid morons will believe that it is all due to Trump. US policy will be same even after trump goes. US has already kicked the bucket on taiwan , just a matter of time before they start sending more arms to pakistan.

And Russian engine powers the JF17, and chinese use the Su35 and S400. Only donkeys think that Russian policy is any different than US.

If you are an idiot , no system will be good enough for you. No country will give their best tech, you take the second or third gen tech and then work on your own to catch up on it.

Seems like revelations about poor reliability of Russian weapons is really burning the behinds of some Russian pimps
Maybe you can explain us why availability rates of Mig29K are so bad if its such a great product.
Maye you can tell us why the price of Russian carrier increased by over 3X before delivery to IN. Why did it catch fire during sea trials itself?

All western tech needs to be mollycoddled , maintained regularly with strict service regime only tthen they work as expected. Further more every country hypes up their tech prowess. We all saw what happened to their glorious patriot systems in ukraine and gulf.

At least it works after being mollycoddled, not like Russian weapons which don't work no matter what. IN has taken away OEM certification of Mig29K radar. Russian carrier is in dock for more than 9 years. Maybe it will finally set sail if they mollycoddle it a little more.
As for patriot, we all saw what happened to S400 and Pantsir in Ukraine war. So your argument is extremely stupid.

 

[screambowl]

I know,

Personally, I am now of the opinion that parliament gets hit by Pakistani air attack and/or our prized A/C gets sunk and then there is bloodbath on all of the beaurocrats and their precious processes. Not by a commettie but by armed forces themself. Remember 62? It lead to death of Nehru and total removal of VK Krishnamenon type of thinking. We need that again it seems.

China, a supposedly communist country can get all of these stupid paper pushing things done faster. Also, stockpilling is a very standard practice in industry to avoid supply shocks. But no~

Chinese are serious people they have good sense of preventive actions they have become explorers now both in tech and trade. Most Indians on other hand can't survive outside their comfort zones. When a population is happy with limited things on their table they won't leave that sphere and become scared and lethargic. The same lethargy is seen in bureaucracy and leadership.

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

You got comprehension issues? Who claimed it was for free? Do you think Russian stuff is for free?


Again, so? India benefitted from it, thats what matters.


And Russian engine powers the JF17, and chinese use the Su35 and S400. Only donkeys think that Russian policy is any different than US.


Seems like revelations about poor reliability of Russian weapons is really burning the behinds of some Russian pimps
Maybe you can explain us why availability rates of Mig29K are so bad if its such a great product.
Maye you can tell us why the price of Russian carrier increased by over 3X before delivery to IN. Why did it catch fire during sea trials itself?


At least it works after being mollycoddled, not like Russian weapons which don't work no matter what. IN has taken away OEM certification of Mig29K radar. Russian carrier is in dock for more than 9 years. Maybe it will finally set sail if they mollycoddle it a little more.
As for patriot, we all saw what happened to S400 and Pantsir in Ukraine war. So your argument is extremely stupid.

Just looking at those who buy American weapons, they are fundamentally either vassal states or defeated nations; it seems you have indeed been deeply traumatized by the disastrous performance of American weaponry over the past 4 years.
At the very least, buying American weapons shows a shred of intelligence, even if it's only done to prove that one is a servile slave—but for the life of me, I can't believe there are actually people who buy French weapons.


France—the international laughingstock of the past three centuries.
Rather than importing their garbage like 'French aircraft' or whatever, people would be better off buying some of their local specialties... white flags. Thoroughly combat-tested.

The F-18 is inherently the worst 3rd or 4th-generation fighter jet since the dawn of the universe, particularly infamous worldwide for its laughably pathetic maneuverability and durability.
Its piece-of-trash F404/414 engine is somehow even worse than the French M88. I can't believe there are actually corrupt governments out there buying this total garbage-tier engine, and to make things worse, even using it in a single-engine configuration...
If I hadn't looked it up, I would've thought they were building a trainer aircraft or some kind of crop duster.

By the way, wasn't it said that back on May 7th of last year, the kills against Pakistani aircraft were actually achieved by the S-400, which supposedly redeemed the trash reputation of the Rafale?
And then I heard the Indian government is going to order another batch of S-400s—so by your logic, doing that is a mistake too? Oh, and right, things are looking pretty lively over in Bahrain and Qatar today.
Meanwhile, a Patriot missile reportedly took out Lindsey Graham, who was just alive and kicking in Kyiv 12 hours prior...

It's a genuine pleasure to imagine the twisted look on your face behind that screen

 

[Hyperactive ADD]

You got comprehension issues? Who claimed it was for free? Do you think Russian stuff is for free?


Again, so? India benefitted from it, thats what matters.


And Russian engine powers the JF17, and chinese use the Su35 and S400. Only donkeys think that Russian policy is any different than US.


Seems like revelations about poor reliability of Russian weapons is really burning the behinds of some Russian pimps
Maybe you can explain us why availability rates of Mig29K are so bad if its such a great product.
Maye you can tell us why the price of Russian carrier increased by over 3X before delivery to IN. Why did it catch fire during sea trials itself?


At least it works after being mollycoddled, not like Russian weapons which don't work no matter what. IN has taken away OEM certification of Mig29K radar. Russian carrier is in dock for more than 9 years. Maybe it will finally set sail if they mollycoddle it a little more.
As for patriot, we all saw what happened to S400 and Pantsir in Ukraine war. So your argument is extremely stupid.

Oh, by the way, over 90% of Ukraine’s drones are supplied by China, or are assembled largely from Chinese-made electronic components.
Without the optical fibers, lithium batteries, and all kinds of cheap, ready-made circuit boards supplied by China, what on earth could you European countries and Ukraine even build to fight Russia with?
I trust no one doubts which side China actually supports between Ukraine and Russia.

Does this even need to be spelled out? What, did Russia suddenly export Akula-class nuclear submarines and Tu-95 bombers to Pakistan or something?

Didn't I already tell you?
You should go to your 'daddy' to buy the Kitty Hawk, the United States, or the Midway. Or the Enterprise that they scrapped a while back.
Go for the Clemenceau and the Charles de Gaulle. Throw in the Virginia-class and the B-52 while you're at it.
And don't forget the nuclear power plants along with the entire nuclear fuel reprocessing industry.
Let's see if they’ll actually give them to you.
If you think Russian stuff is so garbage, you'd better come up with a real, concrete alternative。

Oh, right,
I completely forgot to use your own words:
'American stuff isn't reliable, Russian stuff isn't reliable...'
Or better yet, why don't you just go and buy Chinese?
Grab some of those bootleg Tu-16s where running through the alphabet from A to Z still isn't enough for all their knockoff variants, or maybe a knockoff Kuznetsov.
Or how about a bootleg WS-10? (By the way, the Chinese Air Force lost 204 pilots between 2000 and 2020, and that doesn't even include Naval Aviation).
I guess the only 'reliable' thing would be for you to just conjure something out of thin air using magic.

You are truly one of a kind on this planet—getting everything on the cheap and still acting like a spoiled, ungrateful brat. You don't know a courtesy when you see one.

 

[jetray]

Just looking at those who buy American weapons, they are fundamentally either vassal states or defeated nations; it seems you have indeed been deeply traumatized by the disastrous performance of American weaponry over the past 4 years.
At the very least, buying American weapons shows a shred of intelligence, even if it's only done to prove that one is a servile slave—but for the life of me, I can't believe there are actually people who buy French weapons.


France—the international laughingstock of the past three centuries.
Rather than importing their garbage like 'French aircraft' or whatever, people would be better off buying some of their local specialties... white flags. Thoroughly combat-tested.

The F-18 is inherently the worst 3rd or 4th-generation fighter jet since the dawn of the universe, particularly infamous worldwide for its laughably pathetic maneuverability and durability.
Its piece-of-trash F404/414 engine is somehow even worse than the French M88. I can't believe there are actually corrupt governments out there buying this total garbage-tier engine, and to make things worse, even using it in a single-engine configuration...
If I hadn't looked it up, I would've thought they were building a trainer aircraft or some kind of crop duster.

By the way, wasn't it said that back on May 7th of last year, the kills against Pakistani aircraft were actually achieved by the S-400, which supposedly redeemed the trash reputation of the Rafale?
And then I heard the Indian government is going to order another batch of S-400s—so by your logic, doing that is a mistake too? Oh, and right, things are looking pretty lively over in Bahrain and Qatar today.
Meanwhile, a Patriot missile reportedly took out Lindsey Graham, who was just alive and kicking in Kyiv 12 hours prior...

It's a genuine pleasure to imagine the twisted look on your face behind that screen

He is a american fan boy , who says US weapons are wonder weapons and their foreign policy is run for benefit of mankind.

We dont care to give a damn shit whether it is US or Russia , its our security interests that matter. We have ensured that russian weapons for all its fault does not come with any political strings attached. Russia is no saint they have gone back on its promises like cryogenic engine,nuclear tech...etc but compared to the damage US has done to our security it is still on the lower level.

Irrespective of how good or bad the weapons are we need to have complete control over it.

 

[jetray]

You got comprehension issues? Who claimed it was for free? Do you think Russian stuff is for free?

Nope , tone of your sentence was as if they were doing charity.

Again, so? India benefitted from it, thats what matters.

What benefit is that ? US never benefitted from any of its actions, thats very strange.

And Russian engine powers the JF17, and chinese use the Su35 and S400. Only donkeys think that Russian policy is any different than US.

who said russia is our friend, its just we more control over the weapons we buy from them.

Seems like revelations about poor reliability of Russian weapons is really burning the behinds of some Russian pimps
Maybe you can explain us why availability rates of Mig29K are so bad if its such a great product.
Maye you can tell us why the price of Russian carrier increased by over 3X before delivery to IN. Why did it catch fire during sea trials itself?

Straw mans argument.

At least it works after being mollycoddled, not like Russian weapons which don't work no matter what. IN has taken away OEM certification of Mig29K radar. Russian carrier is in dock for more than 9 years. Maybe it will finally set sail if they mollycoddle it a little more.
As for patriot, we all saw what happened to S400 and Pantsir in Ukraine war. So your argument is extremely stupid.

yeah you can say the same thing about american abrams, their aircraft carrier which ran away from iran after getting its toilet clogged.

 

[Barcid]

Nope , tone of your sentence was as if they were doing charity

Yeah you read tones from what I wrote dude.

What benefit is that ? US never benefitted from any of its actions, thats very strange.

The quad rare earth initiative is an attempt to sidestep China. And the chinese have been feeling threatened by quad and are spending diplomatic capital asking smaller nations like Bangladesh not to join quad. When did I say that US doesn't stand to benefit from Quad? More comprehension issues?

Straw mans argument.

Topic of the thread is fighter jet engines, and discussing availability rates of Russian fighter jets is strawman's? LoL ok

who said russia is our friend, its just we more control over the weapons we buy from them.

Yes we have more control because no one else wants to buy Russian weapon. Giving up control is the only way Russia can sell them. There must be reason why DRDO/HAL didn't even consider the smoky RD33 in the top 2 while selecting an engine for tejas way back.

yeah you can say the same thing about american abrams, their aircraft carrier which ran away from iran after getting its toilet clogged.

There is a magnitude of difference between being out of for a short time after 9 month long deployment and being out of service for 9 years. Gerald Ford will be back soon, but Russia may never have a carrier again. Most of their so called new weapons are just minor upgrades of soviet era equipment being redesignated to market them as new weapons. Others such as Su75 can't even fly unless a third country pays for it.

Fact is Russia can never match west in R&D budgets or talent. If you choose to believe that they still crank better equipment with a fraction of budget and talent, I have a monument in Agra that I want to sell you.