Brexit and Future of UK : Discussions

It's gonna be funny if the UK breaks up because some people wanted to save £10B a year.
Losing Northern Ireland wouldn't break the UK. It's losing Scotland that would; without it they'd no longer be the United Kingdom of Great Britain that they've been since 1707; and would instead go back to being just the Kingdom of England.
 
No, it was your behaviour.

The NI Protocol is a breach of the GFA, which is why it needs to go. It wasn't just £11bn, that was the direct cost. The total direct cost was £18bn and not all of £7bn of that really comes back.

Putin was not provoked, Putin is simply a cuunt who thinks it's still the 19th century. He invaded a country simply because it left his orbit.

You're the one hung up on Putin, not me. Even this post starts with Putin and ends with Putin on a Brexit thread.

If NIP needs to go, it may take NI along with it. It's in the name.
 
Losing Northern Ireland wouldn't break the UK. It's losing Scotland that would; without it they'd no longer be the United Kingdom of Great Britain that they've been since 1707; and would instead go back to being just the Kingdom of England.

So they have "Great Britain", which is composed of England, Wales and Scotland.

And they have the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" with the addition of NI, or "United Kingdom" in short. So if NI leaves, they lose the status of "United Kingdom". They will only be left with "Great Britain", pretty big drop in status. And this may create the domino effect necessary for a new Scottish referendum.

BMD should be happy though, more taxpayer money for England after all, since it's all about the money.
 
So they have "Great Britain", which is composed of England, Wales and Scotland.

And they have the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" with the addition of NI, or "United Kingdom" in short. So if NI leaves, they lose the status of "United Kingdom". They will only be left with "Great Britain", pretty big drop in status.
No, it would no longer be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but it would still be the United Kingdom of Great Britain, which they have been since 1707.
It became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1801. Then they changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1922, with the Irish Republic obtaining its independence. Losing Northern Ireland would therefore undo the Acts of Union of 1800, but not the Acts of Union of 1706-1707.
 
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No, it would no longer be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but it would still be the United Kingdom of Great Britain, which they have been since 1707.
It became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1801. Then they changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1922, with the Irish Republic obtaining its independence. Losing Northern Ireland would therefore undo the Acts of Union of 1800, but not the Acts of Union of 1706-1707.

That makes things even more chaotic.
 
You're the one hung up on Putin, not me. Even this post starts with Putin and ends with Putin on a Brexit thread.

If NIP needs to go, it may take NI along with it. It's in the name.
The NIP is what is pushing NI away.
 
NIP will just go instead. There's nothing to lose at this point.

NIP can't go. Because that's the deal the UK signed with the EU.

In fact the parties that like it took 53 of 90 seats in the elections.

Nobody in Ireland and NI want a hard border between them.
 

Without Brexit UK could have easily afforded the 138 F-35's.

Now you can't even talk about the problem, you have a leader who changes the rules specifically to excuse his rule breaking.

UK has fallen so far, and it continues.
 
NIP can't go. Because that's the deal the UK signed with the EU.

In fact the parties that like it took 53 of 90 seats in the elections.

Nobody in Ireland and NI want a hard border between them.
Nobody said there would be a hard border with NI/RoI. Neither RoI nor UK will put one there, and the EU will have to accept that. The cross-border trade is negligible anyway.

Without Brexit UK could have easily afforded the 138 F-35's.

Now you can't even talk about the problem, you have a leader who changes the rules specifically to excuse his rule breaking.

UK has fallen so far, and it continues.
They will still buy 138 F-35s, just not Bs, they will buy some As.
 
Nobody said there would be a hard border with NI/RoI. Neither RoI nor UK will put one there, and the EU will have to accept that. The cross-border trade is negligible anyway.

While Britain can backtrack from NIP, the EU will simply stick a hard border in elsewhere.
 
While Britain can backtrack from NIP, the EU will simply stick a hard border in elsewhere.
I doubt RoI would agree to put one in Ireland. So what it boils down to is whether the EU wants to scrap a near $1tr dollar trade deal that benefits it greatly on the basis that there may, or may not, be a few £k of sausages going from Britain to RoI via NI minus customs checks. Given that they have EUR31bn of illegal narcotics sales annually and a porous southern border, it hardly seems like a priority. If we say we won't send any there, that should be accepted. And it's not like withdrawing the deal gets them a hard border anyway.

Functionally the current customs border does nothing anyway. Britain is allowed to trade non-EU standard goods with NI, so they customs check it between Britain and NI, but then it still has to be allowed to pass into NI anyway. So the EU is paying customs agents to essentially do nothing.
 
I doubt RoI would agree to put one in Ireland. So what it boils down to is whether the EU wants to scrap a near $1tr dollar trade deal that benefits it greatly on the basis that there may, or may not, be a few £k of sausages going from Britain to RoI via NI minus customs checks. Given that they have EUR31bn of illegal narcotics sales annually and a porous southern border, it hardly seems like a priority. If we say we won't send any there, that should be accepted. And it's not like withdrawing the deal gets them a hard border anyway.

Functionally the current customs border does nothing anyway. Britain is allowed to trade non-EU standard goods with NI, so they customs check it between Britain and NI, but then it still has to be allowed to pass into NI anyway. So the EU is paying customs agents to essentially do nothing.

This is how politics works. All sides try to gain leverage over the others. If the UK backtracks from the NIP, that's breaking a treaty, then the EU will stick a hard border in Ireland. There's nothing more to it. The EU will then be able to negotiate with the UK from a position of strength. A hard border in Ireland is in the EU's interests, so you really think they won't use it?
 
This is how politics works. All sides try to gain leverage over the others. If the UK backtracks from the NIP, that's breaking a treaty, then the EU will stick a hard border in Ireland. There's nothing more to it. The EU will then be able to negotiate with the UK from a position of strength. A hard border in Ireland is in the EU's interests, so you really think they won't use it?
RoI won't let them stick a hard border in Ireland. It's a government-breaking policy in RoI.
 
Obviously won't work out. It's one or the other. Or why have borders at all?
To keep out illegal narcotics and illegal migrants. But the EU has EUR31bn/annum sales in illegal narcotics and millions of illegal migrants, so you might ask why they bother having borders at all, and especially why they're so bothered about a border where none of the aforementioned is likely pass.
 
The problem of the Irish border is that it's a catch-22 situation. Legally, the EU cannot allow the absence of border between the EU and the UK; Ireland and Norn Iron cannot allow the presence of a border between them, and the UK cannot allow the presence of a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So it's a complete deadlock. The ways to solve it are:
  1. One of the parties cedes and break their principles
  2. The UK rejoins the European Union, eliminating the need for a border in the first place
  3. Northern Ireland secedes from the UK and unites with the Republic of Ireland
I'll let everyone appreciate for themselves which is more likely to happen. I'll just say that personally I don't see #2 happening anytime soon.