PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

Let's wait for the IAF to come out with a RfP or atleast an official statement first. Its silence is quite understandable since the Rafale 2.0 deal is in its last lap.

In any case, the bird is yet to undergo proper testing in India (unless you consider its week long participation in AI 25 to be sufficient.)

If a deal were imminent, the IAF would've atleast sent pilots to Russia for familiarization training by now, imo. For reasons I've explained earlier, I do not see GoI signing up for Su-57 until either Trump is out of office or until PAF orders J-35, whichever is earlier.
Go and research if IAF or GOI ever put an official RFP for S-400 or Su-30MKI deal(the original 90s deal), then come back to me.

Su-57 deal is now more than locked which means not only 40-60 off-the-shelf jets but establishing a full production line in India for 100-140 jets.

"Those who think India is not procuring Su-57s in huge numbers(single or dual-seat version) are in for a rude surprise. Period."
 
We are getting license production of the 117s.
Nope. IAF won't settle for any thing other than a proper 5th gen engine with deep TOT. That puts 117S out and either AL-51F1 or Item 177 in.
There's no way we get the license production of 177 before 2035 unless we are ready to spend 10 + billion dollars.
By 2030. 2027 to 2030, we will get either single or dual-seat Su-57I with 117S engines, which Russia has promised to swap out with 177 post 2030.

Anyways, one interesting thing that happened during Mr. Ajit Doval's visit was India's insistence on getting Su-57 with only AL-51F1 and first time Russians might have agreed. Let's see what the final deal looks like.
 
Go and research if IAF or GOI ever put an official RFP for S-400 or Su-30MKI deal(the original 90s deal), then come back to me.

Su-57 deal is now more than locked which means not only 40-60 off-the-shelf jets but establishing a full production line in India for 100-140 jets.

"Those who think India is not procuring Su-57s in huge numbers(single or dual-seat version) are in for a rude surprise. Period."

When we bought the Su-30Ks in 98, India was still under US sanctions. Prior to that though, the IAF did evaluate the M2000-5 vs Su-30MK. So it wasn't a single source deal. You might remember that Mulayam Singh backed the Russian offer after an appeal from Yeltsin.

As I've said earlier, S-400 was a one off as the only weapons system in its class.

I agree the IAF isn't interested in the F-35. ACM Singh had himself said last year that Su-57 was under consideration.

All I'm saying is that we have no clarity yet on timelines, config, etc at the moment. Delays are inevitable judging from the slip ups in S-400 deliveries.

If another contender appears during this time, I wonder if the IAF would pass up the opportunity to atleast evaluate it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
Nope. IAF won't settle for any thing other than a proper 5th gen engine with deep TOT. That puts 117S out and either AL-51F1 or Item 177 in.

By 2030. 2027 to 2030, we will get either single or dual-seat Su-57I with 117S engines, which Russia has promised to swap out with 177 post 2030.

Anyways, one interesting thing that happened during Mr. Ajit Doval's visit was India's insistence on getting Su-57 with only AL-51F1 and first time Russians might have agreed. Let's see what the final deal looks like.
The AL-51F, being a three-bypass engine, belongs to the 5.5-generation, whereas the 177 is only 5th-generation.

Engines that have actually reached the 5th-generation level:
177, XF9-1, and F119.
4.5-generation:
R79, WS-15, AL-41F, 117, 177S, EJ200, and F135
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
Nope. IAF won't settle for any thing other than a proper 5th gen engine with deep TOT. That puts 117S out and either AL-51F1 or Item 177 in.

By 2030. 2027 to 2030, we will get either single or dual-seat Su-57I with 117S engines, which Russia has promised to swap out with 177 post 2030.

Anyways, one interesting thing that happened during Mr. Ajit Doval's visit was India's insistence on getting Su-57 with only AL-51F1 and first time Russians might have agreed. Let's see what the final deal looks like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
This cracks me up so hard. I honestly never expected to run into a screenshot of this piece of trash on an Indian forum. This idiot is the 'Han' part of the infamous 'Yanhuan Double Vermin' (炎寒双畜) on Chinese forums—an absolute, utter scumbag of a 50-cent troll. His ID on Chinese forums is 'Hanshuang Aoxue 2021' (寒霜傲雪2021), and his highest degree is just a vocational high school diploma... He’s an unemployed loser and a notorious 'historical revisionist' who fabricates history out of thin air. His ancestors were probably screwed over by Russians, which explains his psychotic, pathological hatred toward them..
And of course, he also holds an absolute, utter contempt for Indians, Japanese, British, Germans, and basically everyone else
His famous 'inventions' include the WS-15 engine with 18 tons of thrust, the PL-15 missile with a 300-kilometer range, and so on and so forth...
Seeing Chinese characters all of a sudden on an Indian website made me think my eyes were playing tricks on me.He literally fabricated rumors claiming that the Su-57 doesn't even have internal weapon bays, under the pretext that 'it never dared to open them due to structural damage.' He also claimed that the Irbis-E radar is inferior to that of the J-20, or even the J-10
Check out his profile page here

. Let me put his absolute joke of an understanding regarding your '57 Air Combat' on full display for you.
You guys can try using a translation tool to take a look for yourselves.

(Also, just so you know, the term 'Ah-San' (阿三) mentioned in the screenshot might not be accurately picked up by translation software. Basically, it’s a derogatory term used to refer to you Indians—the tone is pretty much on par with slurs like 'Jap devils' (日本鬼子) or 'American dogs' (美国狗).)
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20260603-224249.png
    Screenshot_20260603-224249.png
    939.9 KB · Views: 2
Yes, due to lower HPC stages(5 vs 9), the rear RF & IR stealth of Type 30 is much better. Both of these would use flat serrated nozzles so end RF & IR stealth may not be too different.

Izd 30 is lighter and has better super cruise capability. Plus the material it is built of is more scrutinized for stealth operations by adding more glass fibre plasticsand reduced RCS both in air and also on ground in shelters,for both transverse magnetic and transverse electric. India will go for this, because Izd is being built by keeping 6th gen stealth project in mind, which means the threat assessment is not just restricted to China.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
How ws15 and f135 not 5th gen ?? Both have thrust to weight ratio of over 10 with serrated nozzles to reduce ir signature
Thrust-to-weight ratio (TWR) is not as critical of a value or design indicator as people think. For a fighter jet carrying 5 to 10 tons of internal fuel, just a slight improvement in fuel efficiency will instantly boost the overall thrust-to-weight ratio of the entire aircraft. By saving a few hundred kilograms of fuel, the TWR of the engine itself becomes practically irrelevant. An aero-engine only weighs about 1 to 2 tons in total; even if you increase its engine-level TWR by a whole point, you’re only saving a little over 100 kilograms, which isn’t even enough to carry one extra missile (not to mention the weight of the pylon).

Car buyers don't sit around debating the power-to-weight ratio of a car's engine (they look at RPM and torque); rocket enthusiasts don't obsess over the TWR of a rocket engine either (in the vast majority of cases, they look at specific impulse).

The performance of the WS-15 is inherently deficient.
The F135, on the other hand, is merely a product of taking the F119 core and scaling up its bypass ratio—sacrificing high-altitude and high-speed performance just to chase a higher thrust-to-weight ratio on paper.
 
IHI Calculated by monetary value, the localization rate is 75%, and the vast majority of the remaining part consists of electronic controls.
"Chinese engineers"—honestly, it cracks me up when you bring this up. The "engineer" we talk about and the "engineer" you refer to are two completely different things. China's so-called system, inherited from the Soviet Union, is basically just a method for evaluating the basic benefits and salaries of professional personnel; back in the day, we even had the eight-grade worker system. It has almost nothing to do with the "engineer" you have in mind. In my own workplace, there are several Associate Senior Engineers who only graduated from junior high school. It’s entirely a matter of taking care of them right before retirement to boost their pension.
The Chinese market is actually the freest and most open market in the world. Otherwise, why would European capitalists flock to it like crazy? Isn't that the simplest logic? Capitalists aren't stupid.
What the Indian auto market has introduced is similar to what China came up with in the 1980s during the so-called "Reform and Opening-up"—requiring Indians to hold a 51% controlling stake and forcing technology transfers. China used to do exactly this to all foreign automakers under the slogan of "trading market for technology." But then Elon Musk came along, and government officials treated him like an honored ancestor. All of those previous restrictions were scrapped for him, and they even gave him free land. The Indian government wouldn't coddle him like that, and he couldn't stand it, so he walked away.
Ultimately, so-called democracy cannot exist under private ownership. When the state itself belongs to capital, how can there be any true democracy in the country? Even Trump was elected through the Electoral College. Capitalists hand you candidate A, B, and C, and let you pick one from among them—what difference does it really make?
Yes i too believe china is the last bastion of capitalism and free market economy as all traditional free market economy are becoming too much political and "favor"or "against" of a particular company became very common

Favoring a particular sector is not bad , infact many times needed but Favoring or against a particular company is against the rule of free market economy

But this is where china has easy , its not democracy, there is no opposite who brainwash their followers and voters


In any democracy like usa , india, people are so so polarized that they are even ready to support the rape of the women of their own community by another community solely due to her identity

And infact, i too broke with one of my friend with whome i met in 1st year of college.

Not marrying the people of opposite political spectrum is quite normal in urban environment


Is there any thing like that ??

China is politically undivided , un polarized, while usa is

China's biggest and only major issue is tfr rate

Id ccp anyhow can improve tfr to 2 (as china dont import people, nor i recommend as its create diversity hence division and natuve people feed that foreigns are invading their country)

Then china will dominate this , and start of next century without a doubt

Just tfr issue, solve it, and whole world is yours

Usa is too divided and too broken to give a unified response against a rising super power

A personally i font hate it, i am too much fed up with the toxicity of indian politics, i already desires to settle to foreign country like brazil

But i still want capitalism to won, because this is the system that uplift people from poverty

There is nothing better than capitalism, nothing more humanely than capitalism and i thinks that china is capitalist, much more than india can ever be (infact even Chinese state owned units are very free market unlike indian psu)


Btw, why are u so pessimistic about china ? And are u free ? Like i am really realky interested in understanding china's village/town political system, and their society like how its non polarized and other things.

So can we talk ? Like telegram ?
 
Yes i too believe china is the last bastion of capitalism and free market economy as all traditional free market economy are becoming too much political and "favor"or "against" of a particular company became very common

Favoring a particular sector is not bad , infact many times needed but Favoring or against a particular company is against the rule of free market economy

But this is where china has easy , its not democracy, there is no opposite who brainwash their followers and voters


In any democracy like usa , india, people are so so polarized that they are even ready to support the rape of the women of their own community by another community solely due to her identity

And infact, i too broke with one of my friend with whome i met in 1st year of college.

Not marrying the people of opposite political spectrum is quite normal in urban environment


Is there any thing like that ??

China is politically undivided , un polarized, while usa is

China's biggest and only major issue is tfr rate

Id ccp anyhow can improve tfr to 2 (as china dont import people, nor i recommend as its create diversity hence division and natuve people feed that foreigns are invading their country)

Then china will dominate this , and start of next century without a doubt

Just tfr issue, solve it, and whole world is yours

Usa is too divided and too broken to give a unified response against a rising super power

A personally i font hate it, i am too much fed up with the toxicity of indian politics, i already desires to settle to foreign country like brazil

But i still want capitalism to won, because this is the system that uplift people from poverty

There is nothing better than capitalism, nothing more humanely than capitalism and i thinks that china is capitalist, much more than india can ever be (infact even Chinese state owned units are very free market unlike indian psu)


Btw, why are u so pessimistic about china ? And are u free ? Like i am really realky interested in understanding china's village/town political system, and their society like how its non polarized and other things.

So can we talk ? Like telegram ?


The free market is the tool used by the bourgeoisie to smash state protectionism, and Communist theory operates under the exact same logic. The only difference is that capitalism preaches "freedom," while communism preaches "fairness" — I am absolutely certain you understand this.

If the manipulation of the market is to be considered an advantage, it must exist under a single prerequisite: "Whose market is it, and whose enterprises are they?" If the market truly belonged to the state and the enterprises truly belonged to the entire populace, then seeking the welfare of the people would naturally be the sacred duty of the government. But China is not like this.

I do not know what India is like, but China is a country under total oligarchic control. According to actual feedback from banking data, $2.8\%$ of the population controls over $80\%$ of the social wealth. (This was revealed in an annual report accidentally leaked by China Merchants Bank, one of China’s big five banks, which caused a massive uproar at the time.) This is precisely why what you said about the base of capitalism makes sense.

The 80/20 Rule of Capitalism: 20% of the people possess 80% of the wealth.(X)
The 80/20 Rule of Chinese Characteristics: 2% of the people possess 80% of the wealth.(√)

Though I haven’t studied it specifically, I’ve heard that India's zaibatsus (oligarchs) are not far behind, but I won’t expand on that here. Consider Xu Jiayin (许家印) alone—he single-handedly racked up $2.4\text{ trillion RMB}$ in debt. Compared to the wealthy tycoons of China, the vast majority of capitalists in Asia look as impoverished as begging dogs.

Regarding the next issue you mentioned:
The lives of Chinese people are highly politicized, starting from their elementary school education. However, this politicization is designed to teach you to hate the Japanese. (Because the Americans have a bigger fist and there is business to be conducted with them, they don’t dare openly propagate hatred toward Americans; instead, they can only propagate hatred toward the dog raised by the Americans.) Furthermore, it teaches you absolute obedience.

In reality, it is China and India that are truly joined by flesh and blood. Although the formal caste system did not directly transfer to China, the methodology of being a perfect slave was continually propagated in China via Buddhism as the absolute mainstream ideology for over 1,300 years. Anyone who dared to show even a hint of resistance failed to pass down their genes—they were slaughtered long ago.

Thus, while the Chinese people appear extremely politicized, demanding the bombing of Japan and Taiwan on a daily basis, the reality is that they only care about whatever emotion their leaders instruct them to express. Even if they declared someone a permanent arch-nemesis last night, the moment an order comes from above, they will immediately run to the front of that arch-nemesis to cheer and wag their tails. For instance, during a major military parade last year, Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto was seated right next to Vladimir Putin. This is a man who commanded military forces to massacre countless ethnic Chinese in the 1990s, yet today he is treated as an honored guest. Survival is what matters most; not stepping out of line is what matters most. Politicization is merely a facade.

Regarding the next issue of birth rates: a brief glance at history makes everything clear. For the vast majority of the past 3,000 years, China was ruled by alien races—specifically the nomadic Mongols from the north. This is the definitive conclusion of recent genomic and anthropological sciences. Aside from the Han, Song, and Ming dynasties where the Han people constituted the ruling class (and there is still no academic consensus on the ethnic origins of the Tang dynasty), China was ruled in all other eras by Mongols and Tungusic peoples.

That China can even present its current facade today is entirely, thoroughly, and completely a blessing bestowed by the decisions of the Communist International in the 1920s—specifically by Leon Trotsky himself—and subsequently by Joseph Stalin and Nikita Khrushchev. Trotsky simultaneously created the Kuomintang (KMT) in Taiwan and the Communist Party (CPC) on the mainland, utilizing Soviet military aid to forcibly unify China's core regions.

Stalin’s military completely eradicated Japanese and American influence, dissolved Manchukuo, and unconditionally handed over more than half of China’s current territory to China—lands that historically belonged to other nations and ethnic groups. Furthermore, the Soviets provided the 156 National Economic Industrial Projects. This represents the greatest, most monumental transfer of technology and societal restructuring in human history. Prior to this, China was merely a semi-feudal, semi-slave society; it leaped overnight into a primary industrial state. Even modern family ethics and domestic morals were imported from the Stalinist era. Khrushchev’s contributions to China were equally monumental; he gave an immense, staggering amount.

If one were to compare the Soviet Union's contribution to China with Britain's contribution to India, the Soviet Union's would be a 100, while Britain's would be a 0.5—or even a negative number. Why say a negative number? Because if it were in the hands of the Soviet Union, they would never have allowed China to be partitioned into two or several different countries


However, the core issue lies in the fact that the Bolshevik transformation of China was imposed from the outside inward. It was not something generated naturally from within Chinese society, nor did Chinese society possess the internal capacity to achieve it. Things given away for free are ultimately never cherished, and everything will inevitably regress to its original baseline. We are simply witnessing the realization of this regressive process right now. When I was younger, I would feel indignant; I hated the traitors, the corrupt officials, and the ignorant, numb, and indifferent populace. Now I understand—this is simply the historical norm.

In fact, whether it was the destruction of the Soviet Union or the destruction of the Chinese Revolution, Trotsky had already precisely prophesied it all. What we are witnessing now is simply the realization of his predictions

The glorious histories written in textbooks were nothing but fabrications engineered a century ago to overthrow Manchu rule. This includes the narrative of the "Four Great Ancient Civilizations"—I don't know if you have heard of it, but it has been systematically propagandized in China for a hundred years, claiming that the world only had four ancient civilizations: Egypt, Babylon, India, and China, and that all other nations were later barbarians. The myth goes that while the other three civilizations were interrupted, only China’s survived continuously. The truth is, without the Bolsheviks, China wouldn't amount to a damn thing. By 1949, the average life expectancy was 35 years—practically identical to a wild chimpanzee.
n fact, this group of people has been in North America for 200 years now, yet they are still hunkered down in those slums called 'Chinatowns,' specializing in scamming Chinese international students. Their standing in the United States is even lower than that of Black Americans

The Chinese populace possesses two defining traits:

The first is acting as "Scabs" (工贼 - labor traitors). They cheapen their own labor to undermine the interests of others, solely to secure momentary praise from their masters. This is the absolute essence of the so-called "World's Factory." Through their own profound suffering, the Chinese populace has made life increasingly miserable for workers and the lower classes worldwide, all to amass staggering wealth for capitalists.

The second trait is acting as "Pariahs/Submissive Subjects" (贱民). Following Mao Zedong's passing in 1976, aristocratic capitalists took power and initiated a comprehensive oligarchic restructuring. By the mid-1980s, they began a massive purge of old-guard officials and party members to "replace them with obedient ones." Millions of military officers and party members quietly packed up and went back to their villages to farm without a single soul daring to resist. By 1998, they pushed further into total privatization, mandating the bankruptcy and restructuring of $80\%$ of state-owned enterprises (SOEs). Even if an SOE was highly profitable, it was forced into bankruptcy so it could be liquidated and sold to officials or the factory director’s relatives. Sixty million industrial workers were "laid off" (下岗), and not a single person dared to revolt. Today, $95\%$ of the capitalists currently on stage—whether they manufacture automobiles or sell hotpot seasonings—are the very cronies and elites who grew rich during that specific wave of plundering. Such absolute compliance would be completely unimaginable in any other country on Earth.

They would rather literally starve to death inside their own homes than cease being submissive subjects. Under such conditions, a catastrophic collapse in the birth rate is a mathematical certainty.

Finally, regarding Telegram: I used to have an account. However, ever since Telegram's founder—that foolish Russian oligarch and turncoat—fled to France to kiss Western boots, only to get slammed by the iron fist of their legal system, he abandoned his so-called neutrality. Consequently, since earlier this year, accounts registered with Chinese (+86) and Taiwanese (+886) country codes can no longer log into the platform at all.
 
Last edited:
When we bought the Su-30Ks in 98, India was still under US sanctions. Prior to that though, the IAF did evaluate the M2000-5 vs Su-30MK. So it wasn't a single source deal. You might remember that Mulayam Singh backed the Russian offer after an appeal from Yeltsin.

As I've said earlier, S-400 was a one off as the only weapons system in its class.

I agree the IAF isn't interested in the F-35. ACM Singh had himself said last year that Su-57 was under consideration.

All I'm saying is that we have no clarity yet on timelines, config, etc at the moment. Delays are inevitable judging from the slip ups in S-400 deliveries.

If another contender appears during this time, I wonder if the IAF would pass up the opportunity to atleast evaluate it.
With Russia, things are slighlty different. Most high-end weapons we have procured from Russia, post cold war, was always under US scrutiny or sanctions threat. Yet they came directly in a Gov-to-Gov deal without any RFP. Su-57, is no different. It may come too without any RFP as Doval-Shugayev meet has taken the talks to the next/final level.

Now, will IAF test it? Sure, that's why Su-57D exists. Wait for some time and more things would become clear.

@Lolwa

AL-51F1 might no go in current Su-57S or M ever while Item 177 may turn out to be its definitive engine. The former may come later in a major upgrade in a VCE form though. Needs to be seen.
 
Last edited:
IHI Calculated by monetary value, the localization rate is 75%, and the vast majority of the remaining part consists of electronic controls.

For India, the aim is 100%.

Electronics are not 25% of an engine, especially one as old as F100/110.

"Chinese engineers"—honestly, it cracks me up when you bring this up. The "engineer" we talk about and the "engineer" you refer to are two completely different things. China's so-called system, inherited from the Soviet Union, is basically just a method for evaluating the basic benefits and salaries of professional personnel; back in the day, we even had the eight-grade worker system. It has almost nothing to do with the "engineer" you have in mind. In my own workplace, there are several Associate Senior Engineers who only graduated from junior high school. It’s entirely a matter of taking care of them right before retirement to boost their pension.

China graduates over a million engineers with engineering degrees from universities.

US graduates 40000 STEM PhDs a year compared to China's 50000. And half of American doctorates are Chinese and Indian students, so the real number is just 20000.

As long as China is producing 3 times more highly skilled people than the US, it's obviously going to be a bigger competitor. At the current rate of population decline, China's population will be 1.3 billion versus America at 400 million. No contest.

The Chinese market is actually the freest and most open market in the world. Otherwise, why would European capitalists flock to it like crazy? Isn't that the simplest logic? Capitalists aren't stupid.

Markets the Europeans are flocking to are free, but they are not in construction, energy, finance, banking, insurance etc. Only stuff like retail and cheap industry.

In India, there are large private firms in many critical sectors, even nuclear and space are now open for private companies. But in China critical sectors are only run by the govt.

What the Indian auto market has introduced is similar to what China came up with in the 1980s during the so-called "Reform and Opening-up"—requiring Indians to hold a 51% controlling stake and forcing technology transfers. China used to do exactly this to all foreign automakers under the slogan of "trading market for technology." But then Elon Musk came along, and government officials treated him like an honored ancestor. All of those previous restrictions were scrapped for him, and they even gave him free land. The Indian government wouldn't coddle him like that, and he couldn't stand it, so he walked away.

Foreign auto companies can set up 100% owned factories in India.

That wasn't the problem. Due to the immaturity of the Indian market, Elon wanted to import some cheap cars from China and test the market. But the govt insisted he can get import duty waiver only if he commits to local production. But he just didn't want to take the risk and he doesn't want to pay 120% import duty. And India doesn't want car imports from China.

The rupee is weak, so the buying power of imported items is very weak in India. Either the rupee has to become stronger to make dollar cheap or the economy has to grow to increase buying power.

Plus the Indian govt itself is focusing more on flex fuels and hydrogen for vehicles so electric vehicles policy is not as strong as necessary. Our charging network is limited to non-existent.

Ultimately, so-called democracy cannot exist under private ownership. When the state itself belongs to capital, how can there be any true democracy in the country? Even Trump was elected through the Electoral College. Capitalists hand you candidate A, B, and C, and let you pick one from among them—what difference does it really make?

In India, democratic republic systems introduced the caste system to separate capitalists (merchants) from politicians and soldiers when we faced the same problem in 1000 BC.

But in a democratic republic, there is still some level of equilization. Look at Mark Zuckerberg, he was busy building a palace for himself in Bolshevik California, but the system he helped maintain has driven him out to the Nationalist state of Florida. Elon Musk too was driven away from California to Texas. Now rich New Yorkers are fleeing to Florida too. Jeff Bezos is busy fighting the mayor of New York. Things tend to balance itself out in democracies 'cause both capitalists and politicians fight it out if they take sides. And both get punished for making bad decisions, and there's room for correction after that. So they are forced to stay neutral or support both sides if they want a smooth business experience.

And in exchange, the politicians also have to work for the people if they are to actually get elected, so it forces the capitalists to choose populist leaders, and such people tend to be more free-willed, like Trump and Modi. So, in the end, even if there's business-political nexus, the people still benefit in some way or the other.

In authoritarian systems, the people don't matter. In China, Jack Ma is finished. There's no second opportunity, once you become a target, you are done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PhotonVish
Go and research if IAF or GOI ever put an official RFP for S-400 or Su-30MKI deal(the original 90s deal), then come back to me.

Su-57 deal is now more than locked which means not only 40-60 off-the-shelf jets but establishing a full production line in India for 100-140 jets.

"Those who think India is not procuring Su-57s in huge numbers(single or dual-seat version) are in for a rude surprise. Period."

The Indian Ministry of Defense’s Defense Acquisition Council (DAC) cleared the S-400 purchase in December 2015.

IAF's EoI and LoR were part of the 2016 IGA. Before the IGA was signed, the S-400 was evaluated in India.

So any Su-57 deal would first need DAC approval and then evaluations in India before GTG process can begin.
 
For India, the aim is 100%.

Electronics are not 25% of an engine, especially one as old as F100/110.



China graduates over a million engineers with engineering degrees from universities.

US graduates 40000 STEM PhDs a year compared to China's 50000. And half of American doctorates are Chinese and Indian students, so the real number is just 20000.

As long as China is producing 3 times more highly skilled people than the US, it's obviously going to be a bigger competitor. At the current rate of population decline, China's population will be 1.3 billion versus America at 400 million. No contest.



Markets the Europeans are flocking to are free, but they are not in construction, energy, finance, banking, insurance etc. Only stuff like retail and cheap industry.

In India, there are large private firms in many critical sectors, even nuclear and space are now open for private companies. But in China critical sectors are only run by the govt.



Foreign auto companies can set up 100% owned factories in India.

That wasn't the problem. Due to the immaturity of the Indian market, Elon wanted to import some cheap cars from China and test the market. But the govt insisted he can get import duty waiver only if he commits to local production. But he just didn't want to take the risk and he doesn't want to pay 120% import duty. And India doesn't want car imports from China.

The rupee is weak, so the buying power of imported items is very weak in India. Either the rupee has to become stronger to make dollar cheap or the economy has to grow to increase buying power.

Plus the Indian govt itself is focusing more on flex fuels and hydrogen for vehicles so electric vehicles policy is not as strong as necessary. Our charging network is limited to non-existent.



In India, democratic republic systems introduced the caste system to separate capitalists (merchants) from politicians and soldiers when we faced the same problem in 1000 BC.

But in a democratic republic, there is still some level of equilization. Look at Mark Zuckerberg, he was busy building a palace for himself in Bolshevik California, but the system he helped maintain has driven him out to the Nationalist state of Florida. Elon Musk too was driven away from California to Texas. Now rich New Yorkers are fleeing to Florida too. Jeff Bezos is busy fighting the mayor of New York. Things tend to balance itself out in democracies 'cause both capitalists and politicians fight it out if they take sides. And both get punished for making bad decisions, and there's room for correction after that. So they are forced to stay neutral or support both sides if they want a smooth business experience.

And in exchange, the politicians also have to work for the people if they are to actually get elected, so it forces the capitalists to choose populist leaders, and such people tend to be more free-willed, like Trump and Modi. So, in the end, even if there's business-political nexus, the people still benefit in some way or the other.

In authoritarian systems, the people don't matter. In China, Jack Ma is finished. There's no second opportunity, once you become a target, you are done.
The stated goals are merely ghosts stories meant to deceive the public—they talk a big game, but there is absolutely no need to take any of it seriously.



The employment rate is rock bottom due to this mass-production manufacturing model. Currently, the average employment rate for college graduates has plunged below 50\%; graduation literally means unemployment. Their only options are to deliver takeout, or for women, to work as bar hostesses. In official terminology, this is euphemistically labeled 'flexible employment' (灵活就业)—a demographic that now numbers 200 million and is shamelessly included in official government statistics. Your understanding of this is far too mechanical. Since ancient times, no new technology has ever been birthed in Asia, with the sole exception of Japan. Even if a migrant worker obtains a diploma and certification, he remains a migrant worker at his core.


I am not aware of the wholly foreign-owned automotive plants you mentioned because when I checked a while back, both SAIC Roewe and BYD were forced to drop to their knees before the local corporate syndicates in India.

A weak currency is the single most vital core competitiveness for an export-oriented nation. If you appreciate your exchange rate, you die—as demonstrated by both China and Japan. Furthermore, the entire green energy and Electric Vehicle (EV) sector is a complete scam and a money-laundering racket; I say this as someone who is personally employed in this very industry right now.

I genuinely know very little about India; outside of Gandhi, the Indian National Congress, and Modi, I have to look up every other term on Baidu.

As for Jack Ma—he is an unmitigated scoundrel, and he is universally loathed across China. On one hand, he aggressively monopolized and crushed the brick-and-mortar economy. His impact on the retail sector, in particular, was catastrophic; he created absolutely zero value, serving merely as a siphon for profits while destroying livelihoods. Tens of millions of people nationwide lost their jobs because of him, accelerating internal instability. The sheer shockwave he dealt to the national economy is no less devastating than the total privatization wave of 1998. His father was a deputy-bureau-level cadre (the equivalent of a vice-mayor of a provincial capital), but unfortunately, Ma became blinded by greed and actually tried to meddle in politics. In this country, the 'Deity' at the top can take your wretched life in a single minute
However, Jack Ma deserves absolutely no sympathy. Evil scoundrels like him deserve to die—every single last one of them. Dying just once is not enough; it would be best if he died eighty or ninety times over.
In China, who doesn't secretly yearn for the United States? Take their own Ministers of Foreign Affairs, for example: one of them fled to America and refused to return, while the other was just exposed the other day for having an illegitimate child with a female American spy.