Unfortunately for us, even less !
FREMM has between 16 and 32 ASTER. not more.
It is the Horizon that are filled with 48 ASTER, with provision for 16 more. But Horizon are not average destroyer.
British/Italian Tempest (GCAP) Fighter : News and Discussion
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FREMM has between 16 and 32 ASTER. not more.
It is the Horizon that are filled with 48 ASTER, with provision for 16 more. But Horizon are not average destroyer.
Looks like they took the Fat Amy (F35) and somehow made it fatter. Hope the final model looks better than this.
That puts the development at around 60B, for the 3 partners, It is probably going to cost significantly more, before the Rdevelopment is finished
Not many middle powers can come up with that kind of money to go it alone and I'm looking at France, Germany and Spain with the FCAS collapsing
Not many middle powers can come up with that kind of money to go it alone and I'm looking at France, Germany and Spain with the FCAS collapsing
That's 20 billion USD per partner for the next 10 years @2 billion USD / year. Are you suggesting developed countries like little britain , Japan & Italy among the top 10 GDP economies of the world can't cough up 2 billion USD / year ?
What say Paddy ? Is little britain so short of cashola that you can't afford the funding for the Tempest ?
I don't believe this ! Where did all the money you looted from your colonies go ? There's seems to be pretty much nothing to show for it .
@BMD
Also the fact that its expensive because its west, china for example IMO can achieve the same in *high value tech development* in ~30-40 billion.
The infrastructure costs, testing costs, Domestic production avoids import royalties or international vendor premiums will make it significantly lower then the west , and pair that with over all just general efficiency of the system engaged in development.
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Japan agrees with Britain, Italy to advance joint fighter jet project
Japanese Defense Minister Shinjiro Koizumi confirmed with his British and Italian counterparts on Friday in Munich to accelerate joint development of a next-generation fighter jet, the Japanese government said. In separate talks with Italian Defense Minister Guido Crosetto and British Defense...
japantoday.com
Japan sounds alarm over UK delays to combat aircraft project
Tokyo frustrated by funding hold-ups that are preventing the signing of a development contract
There are certain differences, which if true, can cause even more delays.
As i said before, it ain't coming before 2040Japan sounds alarm over UK delays to combat aircraft project
Tokyo frustrated by funding hold-ups that are preventing the signing of a development contractwww.ft.com
There are certain differences, which if true, can cause even more delays.
There are no differences . The only difference is little britain is broke. They're using it as a cover to raise objections to buy time..Japan sounds alarm over UK delays to combat aircraft project
Tokyo frustrated by funding hold-ups that are preventing the signing of a development contract
There are certain differences, which if true, can cause even more delays.
If little britain continues facing a financial crunch which is likely given the recent flaring up of tensions in the ME , sooner rather later little britain either bows out of the project , is kicked out or becomes a junior partner.
The problem is ever since little britain lost its empire it just hasn't developed the necessary mindset to earn a honest livelihood thru the sweat of one's brow like Japan or Germany.
Nor was little britain canny enough to cultivate a neo colonial empire like their frenemy across the channel - France , although this too is coming undone .
But le Francais has had nearly 7 decades of prosperity courtesy the neo colonial empire . Just as all good things come to an end so did this one.
Returning to little britain , to make matters worse they opted for brexit & compounded an already bad problem. Then came the Wuhan Virus Pandemic , the war in Ukraine & now the Iran war in quick succession as a bonus proving when it rains it pours.
Truly karma is a beach . Isn't it Paddy ? @BMD
Seems more like a bureaucratic delay rather than a program delay. Work arounds will be found before British money comes in, the other 2 partners will spend more initially, that's all.
Bureaucratic process are a part of the program.
*As for workarounds being found* that's a hopefully scenerio from your side, only time will tell whether it will become a reality in a way that it can prevent delay.
The Russians did that to cater to delays from India in the Su-57 program. SoKo did the same for KF-21 when the Indonesians delayed spending too.
So there is precedent.
While I think Britain is struggling with funding, they will just make cuts elsewhere to fund their A-list progams.
Su-57 program was delayed, as India left the program after only investing little ~300million , while russia wanted India Russia initially requested $6 billion from India as its 50% share for final design and R&D.
The Su-57 was originally expected to enter service by 2015.
After delays
Service entry in december 2020,Now in 2026, they have little more than 40+ su57 in service, su57 with al51 still haven't been delivered.
Indonesia was from the start always a very junior partner.
The total program cost for the KF-21 Boramae project is estimated at approximately 16.5 trillion won
This budget is divided into 2 stages.
System Development (EMD): Approximately 8.1 trillion won.
Mass Production setup (Initial Phase): Approximately 8.4 trillion won.
Initially Indonesia's commitment was 1.6 trillion won for the entire project, less than 10% of entire project cost.
basically its tot cost being initially paid for, when Indonesia finally buys some numbers of kf 21.
But.
Indonesia has revised its investment to 600 billion won approx now.
Korea from the start was ready to bear vast majority of program cost.
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As per the Russians, the delay wasn't due to financial issues. Their security situation changed so much after 2014 that their military programs received sufficient funding.
Where they slowed down was scaling up production, which would have received a boost with India's order.
Yeah. 20%. And UK's share is 30+%. So it's not much of a difference.
It just means Italy and Japan release more funding for maybe 1 year while UK makes up for it the next year.
Lie.
During the period of 2015–2018, several key Russian sources and official outlets (like TASS, RIA Novosti, and Gazeta.ru) highlighted the financial friction points that slowed the program
The most significant "money-driven" delay was articulated around July 2018. Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov famously stated that there was no need to mass-produce the Su-57 because the Su-35 was already effective and much cheaper.
That's a *funding* related problem.
In 2015, the Russian Air Force originally expected to receive 52 Su-57s by 2020. By 2016, this was slashed to just 12 aircraft as the Ministry of Defense prioritized cheaper, "proven" airframes (Su-30SM and Su-35S) to fill the ranks while the economy stabilized.
high-performance engine was underfunded and behind schedule, the decision was made to fly early batches with the older AL-41F1S engines. This effectively "delayed" the delivery of a true 5th-generation capability until the 2020s.
Less than 10%.
Again that's just a hopium take, time will tell
Both FCAS and GCAP would start to enter service from 2040 onwards. Chinese 6th gen would enter service the fastest from 2032-33 itself followed by F-47 in 2035. Europeans are going to be last of all known 6th gen programmes. Russia is an anomaly here with not much news coming out regarding Mig-41 or PAK-DP.
That was obviously corrected by releasing funding.
They failed to meet that deadline due to technical issues. India's money was not a factor for the delay in not meeting the 2015 goal, that had a separate funding pipeline. It was the latter part of the program that was supposed to be funded with Indian money, but Putin loosened his pursestrings instead.
After India backed out, they announced that they will fund the program on their own.
Sure. But it means SoKo funds the rest. It didn't lead to delays.
Sure. Even the current speculation is just hopium.
Rather the FT article hints at UK and Japan allowing new customers to enter the program. Like Poland is the new planned entrant.