2040 6th gen is not too bad but i hope we can have one by 2036-38. Would be game changingThis is true. Don't think it is going into production before 2038/2040. Anyways, if we can get a 6th gen fighter from 2040 onwards, then it ain't too bad, me thinks
AHCA (Advanced Heavy Combat Aircraft) concept, 5/5.5/6gen? Su-30MKI replacement? TEDBF 2.0?
- Thread starter Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik
- Start date
2036-2038 for 6th gen for us is delulu.
2040-2045 is more appropriate timeline for us.
You seem highly stressed & burnt out, unable to understand difference b/w "full on debriefs" & slides, drawings DRDO, ADA ususally share like this one on DEW pod-
That's just you. For bloggers & jounalists just scoops & bytes from interviews & presscon are enough, but it needs to reach citizens in understandable form. Looking at decades of delays & unexpected import tenders, just govt word is not enough for citizens anymore.
BLACK Project by definition ( which is not acknowledged publicly, cannot be traced publicly, no journaist, blogger, news channel would ever come to know about it unless DoD want).
- You could say that it WAS a black project by DRDO & IIT Chennai but not anymore. This project might be new in India but is public knowledge since at least 10 years in global civil domain (please check below links & screenshots collage from X).
- Even if black projects are conducted at night, in India it won't matter right in middle of town & with spies & sleeper agents all around.
- Nor this tech can/should delay 5gen AMCA or 6gen project. It can be implemented as MLU.
- It was also called ELASTIC WING where gaps at hinges can be covered & camber can be changed.
- I couldn't find media on a change with wing width, sweep angle on leading, trailing edges.
X post in Feb'2026 by IIT Madras
X post in Dec'2025 by Varun Karthikeyan
Xpost in 2022 by Varun Karthikeyan
X post in 2023 by PAVE_naught on F-111's adaptive wing
X post in 2023 by Jousef Murad showng clip of multiple concepts
X post in 2017 by TWZ
X post in 2016 by Aviation week
X post in 2015 by Aviation Week
Another X post in 2015 by Aviation Week
There are many more links but putting some as collage due to attachment limits -
BREAKING NEWS
We don't even know preliminary specs of FCAS & running after the FULL PRODUCT as per French needs instead of just the VCE & some components.
Yes, but you only used the word "light", that's visible spectrum different from RF spectrum. You're confusing everyone.
No, i mean spacesuit wearing pilots like those of U-2, SR-71.
- It is a cat & mouse game. So the idea is to look 1st, shoot 1st, kill 1st, no matter what the weapon & where is its position.
- Big SAM sites are also static & variety of drones, artillery, BMs, AGMs, CrMs, ARMs are made to destroy SAM sites. Then ShoRADS & CIWS try to guard the VLR-SAMs.
- Similarly variety of DEW classes w.r.t. type, power, air/land/sea, etc are under R&D.
> Perhaps you can draw an outline sketch in MS Paint, compared to MiG-31 & show us. A high supersonic Mach 3-4 jet might get HySo AGMs & AAMs as well whose size would be like PL-17. J-36 is closest thing in size with estimated MTOW 54 tons. So 90-100 tons MTOW means 1.23 times bigger dimensions. It would be interesting to compare IWBs of Tu-22M & J-36 for an idea.
> If 2x engines then with 75 tons STOW & wet T/STOW of 0.8 is taken then Engine wet thrust = 75*0.8*9.8/2=294 KN.
> It is tough to match your level but as you can see I'm trying my best with my low IQ
giving pics, calculations, diagrams, slides, links, etc.
You should also give your best with your superior common sense.
If common sense was common to understand Aeronautical Engineering & guess a jet's performance w.r.t. size, shape, range, speed, payload, altitude, then -- every citizen would score high, be like an Aeronatical engineer
- forums like this would not exist
- And... ADA+DRDO+HAL would have already defined & made 7gen ahead of USA by now.
> It is easy to compare jets built so far having Turbofan, Turbojet & guess future jet based on them, like 6gen VCE is probably combo of both, bcoz engine parameters like OPR, BPR, TET, SFC, AMF, etc are known.
> But it is very difficult to gauge parameters & performance of Ramjet & SCRamjet engines as their parameters are not publicized properly yet.
Some Ramjet drones & missiles exist. Some SCRamjet missiles are there. But guessing the parameters & performance of High supersonic & Hypersonic engine & jet is very tough for now for people like us here.
> Obviously I don't have luxury of getting WORD DIRECTLY FROM GOVT. Hence all I can do on casual chat forum is google, share some calculation, pics, drawings, graphs, tables, links, etc.
Every gen is an outliner or stepping stone to next gen. I've also said that 7gen would probably be 100% UCAVs, big variety of them, some could be HySo. Many BMs will be replaced by HySo maneuvering vehicles. Beyond this it is easy to speculate but difficult to conclude bcoz the business of 6gen won't be hampered. Every tech/product has its time, too soon or late means blunder. Staying ahead also has limits.
Dunno what's so strange about 7th gen. All others are already working on it.
Both Britain and France skipped 5th gen development after Typhoon and Rafale. And Britain is buying 5th gen instead.
France, Espadon concept.
An Espandon model has already undergone wind tunnel testing
Onera, France's DARPA, bets on Espadon hypersonic fighter concept for 2050 flight - Breaking Defense
An Espandon model has already undergone wind tunnel testing, but the end goal of developing an aircraft capable of flying “beyond Mach 5” won’t happen for decades.breakingdefense.com
“This new concept, at the end of the day, will be handed over to French industry in order to prepare for the future,” Mathurin told Breaking Defense at the Paris Air Show. “The timeline for this [aircraft to potentially fly] is 2050.”
“If they want to learn something, things can happen very quickly or maybe the need will be required in 10 years,” he said.
US, Mayhem.
Next Generation Responsive Strike Project.
Mayhem Hypersonic Strike-Recon Jet Contract Awarded To Leidos
The Air Force has said it wants the experimental Mayhem air vehicle to demonstrate strike and intelligence-gathering capabilities.www.twz.com
Unlike the strike projects, Espadon is seen as a successor to SCAF, making it obvious that others have such concepts for 2040-50 introduction too.
New Hypersonic Strike-Recon Aircraft Effort Eyeing Prototype Development By 2030
The launch of the Next Generation Responsive Strike effort follows uncertainty around a previous hypersonic aircraft program called Mayhem.
So prototyping within 10 years now. By the time AMCA becomes operational, 7th gen protoypes will be in the demonstrator/prototype era.
At best ADA continues with the IN's requirement as a bridging effort towards 7th gen.
Many articles, YT videos like these are already known. It'll take a new thread altogether to document the global R&D. The STRANGE things are that -
- Many capitalist private firms like ONERA, Calspan, Draper Laboratory, Kratos Defense & Security Solutions, etc wan't govt support, funding, tender. A lot of lobbying, advertisements, propaganda going on to secure tenders. They're getting support for initial TD, not final product yet, bcoz debate on all aspects, parameters, performance, cost, etc is still on.
- USA defence budget could reach trillion dollars. How many nations can do that? So everybody including India working on hypersonics but with much lower budget & slow speed. Everybody won't be able to match USA so they'll think of alternatives.
- Like i said every tech/product has its time, so USA, Europe, Russia, China won't let the business of NGAD, F/A-XX, GCAP, FCAS, MiG-41, J-36, J-50 fail.
- Just like B-2, F-117, B-21 type jets, the hypersonics MAY also be put into special, delicate, costly product category, built in limited numbers.
- We have been talking about fighters. But Attack/strike/bomber platform is different. These HySo projects by private firms are in nascent stage, projected by makers as Strike jets but seen by most people as evolution of CrMs, BMs with predefined trajectory, not future of fighters bcoz hypersonics & fighter don't seem to match, we need a different term, perhaps just them "tactical jet", "combat jet", etc.
- Hence it is premature to formally define 7gen combat platform as it will be expected to defeat F-47, GCAP, FCAS, J-36, J-50, etc most of the times. Only HySo speed won't help. But neither 6gen have reached IOC nor these hypersonic concepts have been shown properly with airframe specs, except in scifi movies & animations.
Magic
> Looking at size of weapons itself, IDK how a medium naval 6gen jet is possible. Obviously i'm no aero-pro. We should wait for official declaration of preliminary specs of FCAS engine & airframe & keep our speculation & discussion formal. We can keep our opinions. If AMCA specs can be pumped up then for FCAS too, who knows.
> Let France do whatever with their money, different geopilitics, needs. For them it'll suffice. But a big nation like India won't be sufficed by all medium jets.
> After tabulating & comparing engine & airframe data of most present jets, I won't comapre 4gen with 5gen with different strategy & structure. Others can do that if they wan't.
> But you can see the news, social media & even members in various forums that all 1.5 billion Indian citizens don't agree to fully import FCAS as per French needs. Some Indians are "chasing" only FCAS engine & some components for AMCA Mk2.
> Indian tax payers are fedup getting sandwiched b/w IAF Vs GoI/MoD Vs HAL Vs ADA. It is very sad to see DELAYS & CONTRADICTIONS
that -- operate a heavy jet like Su-30MKI is ok,
- Pushing for Kaveri & also for JV is ok,
- inflating LCA to MWF is ok,
- DRDO making RAM, RAS, DEW, etc is ok,
- Testing HySo engine technology is ok,
- CHASING UNDEFINED 7gen & risking next 3-4 decades is ok,
- BUT STILL TIMELY making a future heavy 6gen airframe, if not cleansheet design then easiest would be to inflate AMCA, is MAGIC for India
. And engines can be arranged in 15-20 years.> Just like other forums have members showcasing their opinion by imagination with CADs, drawings on various projects, same thing i'm doing with AHCA. Take it with pinch of salt, pepper, turmeric, coriander, cumin powders. You discourage others but I'll encourage you & others to open threads of your concepts actually, or i can open new thread for you if mods don't mind.
> After IN getting Rafale-M & indicating 5gen TEDBF let's see what happens, if 6gen N-FCAS-MKI will come to IN.
> 4gen TEDBF is quoted 14 tons empty, 7 tons internal fuel, 26 tons MTOW, 2x 4gen F414=2.2 tons (2x1.1).
F-35-C is a 5gen SEDBF with 15.7 tons empty, 32 tons MTOW, 1x 5gen F135=2.9 tons. We can consider for now that 2x F414 sized 5gen engines = 2.9 tons (2x1.45)
J-35 speculated specs- 15 tons empty, 7.2 tons internal fuel, 30 tons MTOW, IDK weight of WS-19 engines.
F-35 also getting ECU for more power & electricity, apparently for DEW.
Hence compared to F-35-C, for a new 6gen airframe design I would add few more tons having DEW, coming to say 35-38 tons MTOW bordering F-22, now that's the MAGIC of MATHS.
But still if some new structural materials can reduce weight, that would be great, then MTOW can reduce by say 20-25%, down to 28-30 tons.
Our cellphones are 10x powerful than 2000s house desktops.
IMO, with supercomputing, AI/ML, robotics, other automations, PPP, which will continiously improve in next 20 years, we should be able to make 6gen airframe TD with existing engine like Izdeliye-177 by 2035-40 & induct with JV engine by 2045.
If such deal can be delivered by 2040 then AMCA project MAY also be dead like EU did. Till then IAF & IN will operate Rafales only, may be some Su-57 too.
Please open new thread on 7gen.Then it'll be like Need for Speed Hot Pursuit where USA & Europe will be like those police cars.
We don't need to go in circles about it. The business of all 6gen jets will be secured for at least 30-40 years. You can keep your opinion on your definition of 7gen but looking at -
- average span of a gen of 30-40 years,
- India's current purchare for next 40-50 years of Rafales, LCA, MWF, then either AMCA or FCAS in 2040s,
- future economic growth & budget (not to compare with USA's trillion dollars),
- but impact of AI, etc,
our budget left for 7gen would be slim & R&D will be slow.
Hence that FORMALLY UNDEFINED 7gen won't be INDUCTED before 2065-70 in India & globally, when LCA, MWF, Rafales & other 4gen jets will be dumped & RIP
USA wil bring CAATSA & @Gautam will bring that CAT
You seem highly stressed & burnt out, unable to understand difference b/w "full on debriefs" & slides, drawings DRDO, ADA ususally share like this one on DEW pod-
View attachment 50174
That's not "technology," that's a full-on system. Expecting the same for technology shows you know nothing about this subject.
Lol, yeah, sure, they will now suddenly try and tickle your fancy to meet your expectations. GoI DGAF about journos and their silly articles.
BLACK Project by definition ( which is not acknowledged publicly, cannot be traced publicly, no journaist, blogger, news channel would ever come to know about it unless DoD want).
- You could say that it WAS a black project by DRDO & IIT Chennai but not anymore. This project might be new in India but is public knowledge since at least 10 years in global civil domain (please check below links & screenshots collage from X).
- Even if black projects are conducted at night, in India it won't matter right in middle of town & with spies & sleeper agents all around.
View attachment 50203
View attachment 50204
Nothing is hidden from satellites nowadays. So there's no relevance for spies and sleeper agents to "hear" about a black project aircraft taking off. It's useless to spot a demonstrator testing niche technologies anyway.
Every moron and his dog could see Chinese jets taking off publicly for their first flights. And we have already see even aircraft like the J-36 on the trmac via commercial sat photos. So the kind of secrecy you are expecting no longer exists.
The B-21's first flight happened from Plant 42, an airbase in the middle of a city.
If we want absolute secrecy, we can just fly things off Car Nicobar, but that level of retardation is gone.
It's not meant for AMCA. It's a potential for AMCA NG, but nothing for us to bother with today.
None of your links take us to CSIR-NAL.
BREAKING NEWS
We don't even know preliminary specs of FCAS & running after the FULL PRODUCT as per French needs instead of just the VCE & some components.
How does that matter? If the IAF fails to get into SCAF, then they will import, either flyaway or license production.
For years I've said, even in our discussions, that the IAF is very likely to import 6th gen, and it's happening now.
No, you are confusing yourself. Anyway, radio signals are light. X-ray is also light. So are IR and UV. The entire radio spectrum is light.
Whenever we speak about "light" ini your context, we refer to it specifically as "visible light."
This is what I said:
Its job is to deflect light into absorbptive surfaces or to achieve pass through, so it does the opposite of RAM/RAS.
Any reasonable, sensible person within the context of this exact discussion would see this as:
Its job is to deflect "the entire radio spectrum" into absorbptive surfaces or to achieve pass through, so it does the opposite of RAM/RAS.
Metamaterials are made frequency selective. And, no, bending visible light away does not result in blackness. You are thinking in terms of absolute absorption, which is not possible in real life, with the black hole being the only exception.
This shows how limited your basic knowledge in physics is.
- It is a cat & mouse game. So the idea is to look 1st, shoot 1st, kill 1st, no matter what the weapon & where is its position.
- Big SAM sites are also static & variety of drones, artillery, BMs, AGMs, CrMs, ARMs are made to destroy SAM sites. Then ShoRADS & CIWS try to guard the VLR-SAMs.
- Similarly variety of DEW classes w.r.t. type, power, air/land/sea, etc are under R&D.
It's not possible to protect such fixed sites, as the US just found out after attacking Iran.
It follows the same rules as SAMs.
But a 7th gen fighter can also fire off MW-class laser, it has the power for it. So it's going to get first look, first shot anyway.
I can't draw, so no point. We can expect a 30-35 m aircraft. It will use a turbojet instead of turbofan, so the size of a turbojet is smaller and requires less power, like the Mig-25. The ramjet will be bigger, so it will be a big engine, but should require an exhaust similar in size to what a turbofan of a similar power requires.
The SR-71's J58 is 4.6 m long and has a diameter of 1.3 m. The diameter is pretty much the same as the AL-31F, but is shorter than the AL-31F by 350 mm. So the footprint of the engine is well within the contours of a regular Flanker. The F135 is in fact much longer.
This way they can keep the engines widely spaced, like the SR-71 or even a Flanker, and taper towards the nose for streamlining, like the Espadon concept.
> It is tough to match your level but as you can see I'm trying my best with my low IQ
- every citizen would score high, be like an Aeronatical engineer
- forums like this would not exist
- And... ADA+DRDO+HAL would have already defined & made 7gen ahead of USA by now.
> It is easy to compare jets built so far having Turbofan, Turbojet & guess future jet based on them, like 6gen VCE is probably combo of both, bcoz engine parameters like OPR, BPR, TET, SFC, AMF, etc are known.
> But it is very difficult to gauge parameters & performance of Ramjet & SCRamjet engines as their parameters are not publicized properly yet.
Some Ramjet drones & missiles exist. Some SCRamjet missiles are there. But guessing the parameters & performance of High supersonic & Hypersonic engine & jet is very tough for now for people like us here.
> Obviously I don't have luxury of getting WORD DIRECTLY FROM GOVT. Hence all I can do on casual chat forum is google, share some calculation, pics, drawings, graphs, tables, links, etc.
View attachment 50175
Sometimes what comes off as a sarcastic comment by one person could in fact be true for another, without the person realizing. You are basically saying you don't know, but you prefer to dismiss everything contrary to what you do know. So only what you know is real and everyone else is wrong. Congrats on understanding yourself.
A 7th gen hypersonic jet wouldn't be a mere stepping stone to the next. There were dozens of fighter designs before the Me 26w, but Me 262 is considered the first generation. Think about it.
Plane makers already know what 6th gen is and how to defeat it. Hence the work on 7th gen foundational technologies going on in parallel for prototyping in the 2030s. The only weak link here is your own ignorance about this subject.
7th gen is already entering the demonstrator phase for many countries and while we will see 6th gen entering the stage in the 2030s, the same will happen for 7th gen in the 2040s. So it's right around the corner in aerospace parlance. I already showed off a working prototype of a modern turboramjet by Hermeus in my prevous post too.
CHIMERA | Hermeus
www.hermeus.com
So how far do you think the US MIC is in this area? So of course, the Russians are already developing the prototype for it.
ADA has to keep up or get left behind.
Then it'll be like Need for Speed Hot Pursuit where USA & Europe will be like those police cars.
We don't need to go in circles about it. The business of all 6gen jets will be secured for at least 30-40 years. You can keep your opinion on your definition of 7gen but looking at -
- average span of a gen of 30-40 years,
- India's current purchare for next 40-50 years of Rafales, LCA, MWF, then either AMCA or FCAS in 2040s,
- future economic growth & budget (not to compare with USA's trillion dollars),
- but impact of AI, etc,
our budget left for 7gen would be slim & R&D will be slow.
Hence that FORMALLY UNDEFINED 7gen won't be INDUCTED before 2065-70 in India & globally, when LCA, MWF, Rafales & other 4gen jets will be dumped & RIP
USA wil bring CAATSA & @Gautam will bring that CATView attachment 50220
Average span of a generation when entering the Fourth Industrial Revolution is now 15 years. It will drop down to 5 years within the next 20 year.
In China: 5th gen operational = 2025
6th gen operational = 2035
7th gen operational = 2040-45
This 30-year business was only for a short duration, between 1970 and 2015. It's no longer relevant.
Separation isn't just "buses" but architecturally partitioned for fault isolation and redundancy.
Flight controls run on deterministic, low-latency buses like MIL-STD-1553B,
while sensors fusion uses higher-bandwidth non-deterministic networks like ARINC 664. These aren't interchangeable or "the same electrical interface"
While the Integrated Core Processor fuses them centrally, but buses remain separate with multiple levels of security and physical partitioning to prevent sensor noise from corrupting the FCS.
The debate was about the level of effectiveness.
F-35 like structure with FBW and fibre for data transfer is still doable even for 6th gen systems, it won't be massively outclassed.
MUM-T isn't "direct".
it's layered connection using RF tactical datalinks ( MADL for F-35, Link 16 etc), sharing cues (targets, paths), while the drone's onboard FCS handles execution autonomously.
Its not fusing drone and manned platform as one, but having a connection between them that allows the manned platform to command drone sensors/flight paths remotely, but using networked protocols, and drone's own autonomous capability.
A.I. is specifically being used to expand the autonomous capability envelope of drones, not fusing them with manned platform, but to communicate with manned platform and having its own internal capability to understand the command and execute the command.
Data fusion is a separate thing, as the name says fusion of all the data coming from all the systems to present single cohesive picture for the people/pilot in command, so that they can command from the position of much better clarity.
"Synchronized swimming" in MUM-T comes from shared data fusion, predictive algorithms, and drone autonomy—not zero-latency direct FCS signals, It would be impractical over long distances and risk interference
Patrol links? You mean datalinks like MADL?
Drones do process: onboard autopilots (ex: via Vector-21 GCS) fuse cues in <50ms, using Kalman filters for predictive sync.
Real ops use this networked model—no "direct signals" to drone FCS, it risks jamming/vulnerability/interference.
Copper does hit tens-hundreds Gbps with low latency: 10GBASE-T Ethernet (CAT6a shielded) delivers 10 Gbps over 100m.
(plenty for fighter wiring, while total wiring in fighter jets are in km'z, the point-to-point distances stay short to minimize weight, signal delay, and vulnerability,the longest individual wire or harness run in a fighter is typically on the order of tens of meters)
Less than 1ms latency via AFDX virtual links—deterministic.
no packet loss (redundant paths, 1x10^-9 error rate per FAA AC 25.1309).
Totally wrong, you are confused between merging data buses and gateway protocols. Take the F-35 for example, there are three central buses; 1394b FireWire, Fiber, and 1553B. All three are separate data buses, but all three use a common ICP. And they all use bridging protocols to communicate with each other, which is how the F-35 delivers sensor fusion.
For example, the EW suite detects opfor radar and tells the FCS to angle the jet 3 deg off to give the radar your best stealthy angle, this is done via the bridging protocol using serial bus interface units, CSBUs. These gateways and bridges allow secure data flow between the avionics and FCS without a full systems merge. Any real separation between FCS and avionics (deterministic vs non-deterministic) is conducted via software partitioning, not hardware.
The quality difference is too high. Look up Airtel's FTTN and FTTH systems.for broadband internet.
I don't know what you mean by "isn't direct" while giving examples of direct. MADL is a direct link (patrol link).
It's partly true for current drones following the leader-follower logic. But there's a delay of seconds between desicion and action in such systems. 6th gen with FBL enhances that to milliseconds, generating real time effects.
Even AMCA program explicitly states FBL allows for fully autonomy of drones to execute missions, whereas non-FBL systems cannot achieve the same.
Based on American classification, there are 5 Levels of Interoperabilty. Level 1 sees indirect access to UAV via intermediary. Level 2 is direct access. Level 3 allows you to point the UAV's sensors around. Level 4 allows you to control the UAV. Level 5 allows full control of a sortie.
FBL allows for adaptive formations and multi-target engagements in milliseconds with drones connected organically to the manned fighter as a core capability rather than using add-on features on existing 4th and 5th gen fighters with drone upgrades. So there's a lot more to this using FBL than the leader-follower logic you are talking about.
For example, the F-35's drone synchronization is more susceptible to interference and jamming, so is used in a permissible or a contested airspace, whereas an FBL-equipped aircraft is much more useful in denied airspace where fighter-drone integrity is easily upheld.
Overall, there's a limit to how well you can using swarming tactics without FBL. It turns the FBL-equipped jet into a "tactical command post."
With FBL, we are talking about latency in the picoseconds for internal data handling and decision-making in milliseconds, for real-time drone control. With wire, it's milliseconds and seconds resply, not enough for real-time.
It's all because copper wire signals attenuate and require many repeaters every few meters, whereas OFC requires no repeaters at all. The signal maintains integrity without requiring regeneration.
And I don't know why you are still hung up on 10-100 Gbps when the requirement is in Tbps. And did you forget copper signals require constant equalization, error correction and regeneration while OFC requires none? You think interference inside an aircraft while shooting out high-power microwaves from multiple sides is a joke?
OFC also does not have to deal with crosstalk, unlike copper, and it can operate along multile data channels in parallel via multiplexing.
F-35's buses are partitioned at the hardware level (1553B for low-latency FCS, 1394b/Fiber for sensors) with CSBUs as secure gateways, not a 'merge'.
ICP fuses centrally, but fault isolation requires physical separation to block noise (per mil-std-1553 specs). Software partitioning COMPLEMANTS but doesn't replace hardware.
your EW-to-FCS example still routes through isolated paths with redundancy checks, not a unified bus."
Separation is both hardware (physical buses) and software (ex:, RTOS partitioning in ICP)—not "any real separation via software only".
But in jets, harnesses/wires are short (tens of meters), so shielded CAT6a hits 10 Gbps/<1 ms without the 'broadband-scale' degradation unlike airtel's example . 6th-gen FBL builds on this incrementally, not a 'too high' leap from 5th-gen hybrids."
"MADL is direct RF link, but it's a networked datalink with 10-50 ms latency for cues, not a zero-delay FCS wire.
Examples like EW-to-FCS routing still use protocol bridging.
*direct* doesn't mean fused control—drones handle execution onboard to avoid jamming risks over distance.
current MUM-T (MADL) hits LOI 3-4 in <500 ms with Kalman prediction,no 'seconds' delays.
drones still need onboard autonomy (LOI 5 isn't 'organic' without it), and FBL doesn't make denied airspace 'easy' yet; that's R&D hype.
Picoseconds? That's per cm propagation.
system latency's ~0.5 ms for copper over 50m runs vs fiber's 0.4 ms.
no 'seconds' or repeatz every few meters (shielded CAT6a handles 100m clean), 6th-gen needs 100 Gbps+, not Tbps per bus.
F-35's 1394b/1553 hybrids PROVE copper's fine with equalization, Fiber's EMI edge is real, but not a latency revolution, shart point to point connection of wires make the gap negligible.
FBL changes the rules of the game, no need for bridging protocols.
RTOS partitioning is software.
My example is what's already possible on the F-35. But that has to be synchronized with drones at the same time, especially drones that are not carrying the same hardware for detecting opfor sensor or maybe it's a forward ISR drone that needs to transmit the same to the manned fighter in order to protect it before it comes wtihin sensor range. Swarms complicate things phenomenally.
Due to faster signal degradation in aircraft, copper wire repeaters are more closely placed than what you find in home broadband.
The change is not incremental, at least for FCS, even if it's for sensor data.
MADL is a patrol link, it's a subset of data link. And yes, MADL isn't good enough, so a far better like is necessary, but it will be a super fast version of MADL. A lot of that latency is due to translation between the 5th gen's add-on capabilities that changes in 6th gen due to it being a core capability organically designed as part of the aircraft. So FBL to FBL comm will be much faster with significantly lower latency.
Current is the magic word. We are talking about 2032+. Drones will obviously use onboard autonomy, but it need cues from the manned aircraft for adaptive tactics.
Yes.
FBL: Picoseconds tx - transit - nano/microseconds rx.
Copper: Picoseconds tx - transit - repeater - transit - repeater - transit - repeater ... - milliseconds rx.
To drone:
FBL... - nano/microseconds rx - nano/microseconds tx - transit - microseconds rx - translation (same format) - milliseconds reaction
Copper: - milliseconds rx - milliseconds tx - transit - micro/nanoseconds rx - translation (different format) - seconds reaction
Data loss:
FBL: 98% packets received... compensating with onboard AI... reaction
Copper: 80% packets received... compensating... cannot compensate, resend missing packets... repeat... ----- ....reaction
In terms of data rates, about 10-100 Gbps is only for IOC and early FOC. Once later blocks come in, the data transmission required will drastically shoot up as drones become more complex and as offboard sensor network expands along with the size of the 6th gen fleet.
Remember, 6th gen isn't just a fighter, it's a command post. Copper is too slow for this function.
It doesn't matter how much any enthusiast knows for time pass compared to PhD champions
like you but lookwhat's being asked & what're you replying again? Are you distracted, disoriented, drunk?
I asked if DoD has any material (slide, diagram, animation, etc) on morphing wing, you could take time, do homework, share that pic by IIT Madras & other pics but you tried to patronize me unnecessarily & again doing it. You have some expectations with your friends, family, colleagues, neighbors, relatives & country. Similarly other forum members & citizens have their expectations. India is democracy, not 100% communist or totalitarian society, especially when looking for PPP when private firms can have their different ideas.
If i got correctly DGAF=Don't Give A (F word), then they DGAF about forums also, so relax, get a grip & talk nicely to others.
But those same silly articles are being used by all of us here as reference.
Read again what i wrote. I'm not expecting black project.
Yeah it shouldn't bother us today bcoz it doesn't seem to be cardinal characteristics of 6gen like you defined.
You didn't give any links to any source in 1st place
which i requested but said govt word is enough for you. Atleast i took time to do some homework & gave IIT Madras pic & many others since 10 years.Like i said - you can watch news & social media that not all 1.5 billion Indians are happy with import of complete FCAS, many just wan't the VCE & some components. There's huge difference b/w make in India & design in India. AI is killing jobs & full FCAS import will further kill domestic opportunities.
> Buddy, wake up! most school level PCM are not used in our daily life even by various types of engineers. If told to give a sudden exam in high school PCM then many people including me won't be able to recall many things, will fail or score very low. Keep realistic expectations from audience.
> For time pass on chat forums i use generic terms like "radiation" & specific terms like "RF","EO", "Optical", "IR", "UV". I never aimed to be champ, never liked numericals beyond 1 page & i always project myself humbly as low IQ.
> Any reasonable, sensible person is expected -
- not to be distracted, disoriented, drunk while replying,
- not to hijack every thread by MiG-41 & 7gen, derail the thread,
- keep realistic expectations from diversified audience,
- to have civilised, matured presentation & communication skills,
- share multimedia info in their best capacity for audience's best understanding,
> Bcoz it is an alternate staggering overtaking R&D b/w aspects of Sword & Shield, nobody can conclude anything hence i said it is cat & mouse game.
> Bcoz like you said it is difficult to stop barrage of incoming threats, hence USA & Israel aim to develop economical ground based DEW to reduce cost of interceptors.
> 2 opponents with same level weapon have equal chance to shoot eachother at same time, a mutual kill.
> DEW satellites were under R&D like Zenith Star, cancelled after cold war ended. Makers of such satellite said it'll keep the enemy's air assets on tarmac. Time will tell if such constellation of such satellites will be rebuilt. Perhaps a treaty will restrict that. But then a treaty can restrict/limit the use of high MW DEW in air-borne platforms too like USA & Russia made with Boeing-747 & IL-76/A-60.
> On chat forum with anonimity, everybody is free to take time & share whatever they can, that's the face value which is taken about a person's awareness on subject, can't blame others.
> I've always said "everybody can keep their opinion, this is just time pass". If i don't know then i write "IDK". Since 30 years now whatever i know that's more than enough for time pass on chat forums. Honesty is best policy. I'm not ashamed to be average guy & projecting myself as low IQ.
But I wish if you understood yourself by virtue of your own disoriented replies.
- you start replying 1st while being ignored,
- when asked politely about info from 3rd party like DoD, you're not held responsible but still you use preemptive demeaning replies.
- Hence either your observation, comprehension powers are poor. But you try cover it as sarcasm.
- or you're not interested in having civilised conversations.
- you don't take time, do proper homework, give excuses "i can't draw, so no point", etc.
- being old member also you don't open educating threads.
- you hijack every thread & deviate to your ideas of 100 tons MiG-41, 7gen, hypersonics, etc.
Yes 7gen would be revolutionary. But everybody will not think like a philosopher or historian.
> For many countries but not every country, huge difference due to geography, geopolitics, budget, etc.Plane makers already know what 6th gen is and how to defeat it. Hence the work on 7th gen foundational technologies going on in parallel for prototyping in the 2030s. The only weak link here is your own ignorance about this subject.
7th gen is already entering the demonstrator phase for many countries and while we will see 6th gen entering the stage in the 2030s, the same will happen for 7th gen in the 2040s. So it's right around the corner in aerospace parlance. I already showed off a working prototype of a modern turboramjet by Hermeus in my prevous post too.
So how far do you think the US MIC is in this area? So of course, the Russians are already developing the prototype for it.CHIMERA | Hermeus
ADA has to keep up or get left behind.
> Makers know what is 6gen system of systems, OK,
The shortest comprehensive way to describe 6gen is MUMT.> People globally talking how to defeat or deter 6gen MUMT, YES
India will also try to do something to deter J-36, J-50 till 2040 if China plans attack before that, neither FCAS would be available nor MAGIC AHCA, nor ADA will make 7gen till then.> But it takes many elements/aspects to defne a gen. Some elements can be considered common & some optional.
> Hence makers in different geography with different geopolitics, budget, etc would apply different strategy & tactics.
And hence it is premature to define 7gen. Anybody can say better H/w, S/w, N/w in general.
> The ignorances are-
- yours about others' awareness, thinking no member has been following Defence since decades, watching documentaries, videos, articles, etc.
- you not reading properly,
- & replying reflexively in disoriented & abusive ways.
Correction - air breathing hypersonic drone in some role operational - 2040-45, but 7gen not equal to only hypersonics, many elements define a gen. And again repeating - anybody can say - better H/w, S/w, N/w.
And 30 years average i took as a very arbritary #, otherwise for different nations it depends on their need depending on threats, their budget & supply chain.
As i wrote 2 years back, this is a good learning reference for a new naval stealth jet design to have central IWBs for AGMs.
Finally the diagram became reality with Su-57 openning its IWBs in flight showing AGMs & AAMs.
Max AG stealth load with 4x 930 Kg Kh-59 Mk2 (subsonic CrM) + 2x 105 Kg R74 CCM = 3.93 tons which is 10.34% of 38 tons MTOW.
With this stealthy load, max internal fuel of 10.3 tons & AL-51F1 engines giving 1x167 KN wet thrust, the wet T/STOW = 1.04 & wet T/MTOW = 0.9
Other AGM options for IWB -
4x 800 Kg Kh-69 stealth subsonic CrM
4x 650 Kg Kh-58UShKE supersonic ARM
4x 520 Kg Kh-38M supersonic tactical AGM
4x 550 Kg Kh-35U subsonic CrM/AShM
Finally the diagram became reality with Su-57 openning its IWBs in flight showing AGMs & AAMs.
Max AG stealth load with 4x 930 Kg Kh-59 Mk2 (subsonic CrM) + 2x 105 Kg R74 CCM = 3.93 tons which is 10.34% of 38 tons MTOW.
With this stealthy load, max internal fuel of 10.3 tons & AL-51F1 engines giving 1x167 KN wet thrust, the wet T/STOW = 1.04 & wet T/MTOW = 0.9
Other AGM options for IWB -
4x 800 Kg Kh-69 stealth subsonic CrM
4x 650 Kg Kh-58UShKE supersonic ARM
4x 520 Kg Kh-38M supersonic tactical AGM
4x 550 Kg Kh-35U subsonic CrM/AShM
Dear mods,
To clean FCAS thread some posts have been wrongly move here, which i have reported. I request to please move them to CHIT-CHAT, or appropriate thread, or delete them.
Please open new thread on 7gen so that some members vouching for it can explore the idea appropriately there.
Thanks & regards.
To clean FCAS thread some posts have been wrongly move here, which i have reported. I request to please move them to CHIT-CHAT, or appropriate thread, or delete them.
Please open new thread on 7gen so that some members vouching for it can explore the idea appropriately there.
Thanks & regards.
It doesn't matter how much any enthusiast knows for time pass compared to PhD champions
You are the one patronizing people. Why in the flying f*ck will anyone want to prove anything to you?
Read again what i wrote. I'm not expecting black project.
Ah, of course, DRDO's working for your expectations.
Yeah it shouldn't bother us today bcoz it doesn't seem to be cardinal characteristics of 6gen like you defined.
You didn't give any links to any source in 1st place
Like i said - you can watch news & social media that not all 1.5 billion Indians are happy with import of complete FCAS, many just wan't the VCE & some components. There's huge difference b/w make in India & design in India. AI is killing jobs & full FCAS import will further kill domestic opportunities.
> Buddy, wake up! most school level PCM are not used in our daily life even by various types of engineers. If told to give a sudden exam in high school PCM then many people including me won't be able to recall many things, will fail or score very low. Keep realistic expectations from audience.
> For time pass on chat forums i use generic terms like "radiation" & specific terms like "RF","EO", "Optical", "IR", "UV". I never aimed to be champ, never liked numericals beyond 1 page & i always project myself humbly as low IQ.
> Any reasonable, sensible person is expected -
- not to be distracted, disoriented, drunk while replying,
- not to hijack every thread by MiG-41 & 7gen, derail the thread,
- keep realistic expectations from diversified audience,
- to have civilised, matured presentation & communication skills,
- share multimedia info in their best capacity for audience's best understanding,
> Bcoz it is an alternate staggering overtaking R&D b/w aspects of Sword & Shield, nobody can conclude anything hence i said it is cat & mouse game.
> Bcoz like you said it is difficult to stop barrage of incoming threats, hence USA & Israel aim to develop economical ground based DEW to reduce cost of interceptors.
> 2 opponents with same level weapon have equal chance to shoot eachother at same time, a mutual kill.
> DEW satellites were under R&D like Zenith Star, cancelled after cold war ended. Makers of such satellite said it'll keep the enemy's air assets on tarmac. Time will tell if such constellation of such satellites will be rebuilt. Perhaps a treaty will restrict that. But then a treaty can restrict/limit the use of high MW DEW in air-borne platforms too like USA & Russia made with Boeing-747 & IL-76/A-60.
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> On chat forum with anonimity, everybody is free to take time & share whatever they can, that's the face value which is taken about a person's awareness on subject, can't blame others.
> I've always said "everybody can keep their opinion, this is just time pass". If i don't know then i write "IDK". Since 30 years now whatever i know that's more than enough for time pass on chat forums. Honesty is best policy. I'm not ashamed to be average guy & projecting myself as low IQ.
But I wish if you understood yourself by virtue of your own disoriented replies.
- you start replying 1st while being ignored,
- when asked politely about info from 3rd party like DoD, you're not held responsible but still you use preemptive demeaning replies.
- Hence either your observation, comprehension powers are poor. But you try cover it as sarcasm.
- or you're not interested in having civilised conversations.
- you don't take time, do proper homework, give excuses "i can't draw, so no point", etc.
- being old member also you don't open educating threads.
- you hijack every thread & deviate to your ideas of 100 tons MiG-41, 7gen, hypersonics, etc.
Yes 7gen would be revolutionary. But everybody will not think like a philosopher or historian.
> For many countries but not every country, huge difference due to geography, geopolitics, budget, etc.
> Makers know what is 6gen system of systems, OK,
> People globally talking how to defeat or deter 6gen MUMT, YES
> But it takes many elements/aspects to defne a gen. Some elements can be considered common & some optional.
> Hence makers in different geography with different geopolitics, budget, etc would apply different strategy & tactics.
And hence it is premature to define 7gen. Anybody can say better H/w, S/w, N/w in general.
> The ignorances are-
- yours about others' awareness, thinking no member has been following Defence since decades, watching documentaries, videos, articles, etc.
- you not reading properly,
- & replying reflexively in disoriented & abusive ways.
Correction - air breathing hypersonic drone in some role operational - 2040-45, but 7gen not equal to only hypersonics, many elements define a gen. And again repeating - anybody can say - better H/w, S/w, N/w.
And 30 years average i took as a very arbritary #, otherwise for different nations it depends on their need depending on threats, their budget & supply chain.
Yeesh.