Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Hydra said:
Was talking about M variant. Do we have any agreement with France to integrate our weapon of choice on m variant?
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We had agreement for integration of our indigenous weapons (like Astra , NASM etc. ) on Rafale-M.

I think any OEM be it US or France based will not allow third party weapon integration.
So if we can integrate our indigenous weapons on Rafale ...it's Good 👍
 
Rajput Lion said:
In a straight fight, PAF would get completely decimated by IAF. Going for F404 was not an IAF choice. Stop false blaming IAF for all our failures. IAF is the best airforce in this world.

And for the umpteenth time, we have already selected Su-57MKI as our future "tip-of-the-spear" fighter. Mate! Just let go of your F-35 dream. It's not coming.
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The PLAAF, USAF, JASDF, IsraeliAF and even the KAF(debateable) are all airforces with superior capabilities and training to IAF. You could say the PLAAF and RuAF are the only ones who are mediocre but they make up with overall size and bomber capability. Su-57MKI needs to be our present tip-of-the-spear. In fact AMCA needs to be expedited and we need to deal with the French and integrate the rafale-amca-scaf/fcas into one complete ecosystem.
The su-57 is a counter j-20/f-22 and until we don't develop satellite targetting we can't really do much. On top of that we need 20 AEWCS and the 2 remaining Phalcon AEWCS needs to be reactivated with assisted targetting capability needs to be brought.

As for PAF they are not a serious issue. The Pakistanis are deep down traumatized by what happened from 8-10th May. The issue is when a PLAAF, PAF vs IAF situation arises. How are we supposed to fight both. And let's be serious a 2.5 front is a realistic option.
Abhijit Iyer Mitra had done some wargame at IDSA and he had said that the 2.5 front war case only happens when the PLAAF and IAF go into combat. In a PAF vs IAF a 2.5 front situation never arises. It's when the PLAAF and IAF go against each other is when the Pakipigs make a move.
Considering we have limited long range A2G options (Brahmos and Scalp are not enough). We don't have anything like the JSOW, JASSM-XR, LRASM. It will be huge problem. Also the Chinese will cover up with its PLARF which is huge on top of that they have over a million drones in manufacturing. We don't have enough AD to simultaneously deal with both.
IAF is too obsessed with a limited war. When the Americans collapse the limited war paradigm will end.
 
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Speedster1 said:
The IAF has already chosen the Israeli Ice Breaker as its next-gen stealthy subsonic Alcm. So there may not be room for another missile in the same class in its inventory.
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We need as many options as we have. And we need to license produce all MBDA munitions considering how much business they are getting.
 
vampyrbladez said:
The emerging school of thought for fighter jets heading into the 2030-2040s is :
  • MUMT + CCA : Reconnaissance and ISR
  • 5th Generation : Air Dominance/ Air Superiority + Strike Role in Air Defence rich environment
  • 4th Generation+ : Strike Role and Force Projection
  • 4th Generation- : Interception/ Constabulary duties and Limited Strike Role
What IAF is looking at :
  • MUMT + CCA : Ghatak, CATS
  • 5th Generation : Su 57E (2-3 squadrons) + 200 AMCA (after 2034-2035)
  • 4th Generation+ : Su 30MKI (upgraded), Rafale F4
  • 4th Generation- : Tejas MK1A
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Ghatak, super sukhoi, CATS all these programs are now dead due to dalali attitude of airforce & lack of funds.
 
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Chain Smoker said:
Ghatak, super sukhoi, CATS all these programs are now dead due to dalali attitude of airforce & lack of funds.
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Ghatak and CATS are meant to be Expendables ie self sacrifice for high risk missions or SEAD

Till they join the forces in good numbers That same work can also be done by Missile salvos

Sukhoi has been getting incremental upgrades ever since it was inducted in 2000 AD and there is nothing new about it

As and when the GAN AESA is ready it will be installed

Same with IRST or New Generation Jammers
 
Those who are putting a lot of hope in things like CATS , MUMT , GHATAK should look at these Two latest innovations

1 ) Air To Air Missile launched by a Geran Drone

2 ) Microwave Weapon Killing drones in the Air

https://twitter.com/x/status/2021577154748973175

https://twitter.com/x/status/2021662858791334261

Drones will be facing an increasingly hostile environment including Directed Energy Weapons

Manned Fighters like Rafale
Sukhois and Tejas will be relevant for atleast 50 MORE YEARS along with Cruise and Ballistic Missiles

Drones are Best being Expendables like Harop Harpy and Sheshnag 150
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
Those who are putting a lot of hope in things like CATS , MUMT , GHATAK should look at these Two latest innovations

1 ) Air To Air Missile launched by a Geran Drone

2 ) Microwave Weapon Killing drones in the Air

https://twitter.com/x/status/2021577154748973175

https://twitter.com/x/status/2021662858791334261

Drones will be facing an increasingly hostile environment including Directed Energy Weapons

Manned Fighters like Rafale
Sukhois and Tejas will be relevant for atleast 50 MORE YEARS along with Cruise and Ballistic Missiles

Drones are Best being Expendables like Harop Harpy and Sheshnag 150
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Not in the same category or roles.
No one is denying that FA are here to stay but MUMT and assets like CATS nd Ghatak will become a force multiplier in prolonged air campaigns facing a capable rival AF like PLAAF.

The interceptor you mentioned aren't meant for UAVs like CATS but much cheaper swarms. CATS/Ghatak will have many roles to play:
A) It can become a shield against A2A missiles in some situations.
B) It can become a forward Radar cueing A2A of our own.
C) It can be used to deploy in less survivable zones mixed with other swarm. And so many more uses.
Etc etc.
 
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Chena going to have 1,300 5th generation fighter ( 1,000 J-20 & 300 J-35 by 2030 )..... Porkiyē probably going to have 100+ J-35 at less than half the cost of 4.5th generation Rafale..... What a disaster in making for us....... Lmao Tejas MK1A already obsolete by modern standards & yet to fly mk2 which will be by the time it's inducted...... Lemurs keep pushing AMCA date further & further meanwhile import Bahadur marshals looking for foreign trips, pvt sector job & permanent settlement abroad post retirement thanks to massive money made on this deal.
 
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Lolwa said:
We need as many options as we have. And we need to license produce all MBDA munitions considering how much business they are getting.
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If MBDA decides to offshore production to India, the forces might end up buying some of their munitions. With scale, the unit costs of Scalp, Hammer et al will come down significantly.

But a lot of other stuff like Brimstone is derived from US tech though and will come under ITAR export controls.
 
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32 billion USD for 114 4.5 gen rafales while we face against china who is building AT LEAST 120 j20s a year. im not even going to talk about the j35s. Lol. The only hope we have is that DRDO is able to get that photonic radar into service soon and have massive drone based awac systems all across that border because were *censored*ed otherwise.

The su57 looks less attractive when you realise that china is making 120 j20s a year. Unless HAL can quickly convert a line and get the su57 into mass pro within 3 years with control over the engine production at like at least 30 jets a year we are fked lol. Even then if we assume 5 years of 5th gen production thats 150 and that would be nothing compared to 1200 j20s. 10:1. even assuming only 300 are put in tibet and the surrounding areas thats 2:1 at very best case scenario.

and these fkers want the AMCA by 2035 and only 200 over the course of its life. lol.

We actually might be better of buying the f35 at mass at this rate if they offer it to us at relatively cheap prices cause we need jets fast. Man if only the US wasnt so jumpy,
 
lmaoxd said:
32 billion USD for 114 4.5 gen rafales while we face against china who is building AT LEAST 120 j20s a year. im not even going to talk about the j35s. Lol. The only hope we have is that DRDO is able to get that photonic radar into service soon and have massive drone based awac systems all across that border because were *censored*ed otherwise.

The su57 looks less attractive when you realise that china is making 120 j20s a year. Unless HAL can quickly convert a line and get the su57 into mass pro within 3 years with control over the engine production at like at least 30 jets a year we are fked lol. Even then if we assume 5 years of 5th gen production thats 150 and that would be nothing compared to 1200 j20s. 10:1. even assuming only 300 are put in tibet and the surrounding areas thats 2:1 at very best case scenario.

and these fkers want the AMCA by 2035 and only 200 over the course of its life. lol.

We actually might be better of buying the f35 at mass at this rate if they offer it to us at relatively cheap prices cause we need jets fast. Man if only the US wasnt so jumpy,
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F 35 is not coming ever

Stealth is very high maintenance technology

I read somewhere that Ultra Violet rays and Icy winds of Tibet will damage Stealth characteristics

So J 20 and J 35 threat looks bigger than it really is

Better SAMs and Plenty of Surface to Surface missiles,.that is the best way to handle PLAAF

Chinese logistic chains in Tibet are very long and stretched , Coming from Xinjiang

They can be easily disrupted
Which will then lead to massive Casualties among PLA.

The Entire LAC terrain is horrible for PLA if it is really bent upon fighting with well entrenched Indian forces

War with India will NOT give any worthwhile Territorial Gain to China
 
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The other point Quwa made was regarding the J35 and stupid nonsense claims it's arriving in 2026/2027...

They said the J35 is miles away from.chinease acceptance itself for
 
Forget china ..
We are not going to eat with china imo
They want away from USA there is a thaw coming
Rafale was the best and much needed choice to keep us relevant and not have to rely on attack missiles and sams in future
F35 was bullet to our heads thank god we avoided
Su57 is not Stealth imo
We have to fight with Rafales su30mki and Aesa equipped Tejas with hypersonic cruise missiles and s400 air defense until Amca arrives fully integrated in 2040
That's 15 years ...
Super Rafales will be the stop gap with drones until.then
 
Harpy1 said:
Forget china ..
We are not going to eat with china imo
They want away from USA there is a thaw coming
Rafale was the best and much needed choice to keep us relevant and not have to rely on attack missiles and sams in future
F35 was bullet to our heads thank god we avoided
Su57 is not Stealth imo
We have to fight with Rafales su30mki and Aesa equipped Tejas with hypersonic cruise missiles and s400 air defense until Amca arrives fully integrated in 2040
That's 15 years ...
Super Rafales will be the stop gap with drones until.then
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the US is on the other side of the planet from china. I dont think they will fk with china over taiwan especially with the agressive onshoring and relocation that theyre doing. Intel is enough for them to easily survive without TSMC if they put the entires govs supprot behind it.

We on the other hand are in a direct cold war vis a vis china cause of akshai chin and a lot of other stuff. Sure it may be a very slight cold war for now but it can escalate quite easily and china can quite easily supply pakistan and make it a thorn in indias side. The US will also not care because it also needs to keep india down.
 
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This china claim of 1000 J20 by 2035
Seems just paper gossip
Firstly every air force needs mix bag of fifth generation hyper expensive to get fifth generation and large modern battle ready fourth generation for high sortie rates to keep flying operations

1000 fifth generation j20 would bankrupt even china
Where is sixth generation development
Air defense
I think china will stop at 600 J20
600 J10c
600 j15
And move to drones and wingmen and sixth generation fighters as USA will.induct F47 and UK Tempest making j20 obsolete
That is far more realistic
As for India
We need
200 Rafales now
200 super Mki up graded
200 Tejas delivered
Then
200 Amca by 2050
Perhaps 100 Tempest order or Fcas in future say 2040
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
F 35 is not coming ever

Stealth is very high maintenance technology

I read somewhere that Ultra Violet rays and Icy winds of Tibet will damage Stealth characteristics

So J 20 and J 35 threat looks bigger than it really is

Better SAMs and Plenty of Surface to Surface missiles,.that is the best way to handle PLAAF

Chinese logistic chains in Tibet are very long and stretched , Coming from Xinjiang

They can be easily disrupted
Which will then lead to massive Casualties among PLA.

The Entire LAC terrain is horrible for PLA if it is really bent upon fighting with well entrenched Indian forces

War with India will NOT give any worthwhile Territorial Gain to China
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lol we are now relying on UV rays and icy winds to counter stealth. thats stupid. they have more than enough money for hardend climate controlled shelters. This is not russia.

Underestimating the J20 is foolish and we would pay a very bad price if we do so.

Better SAMS and a well networked defence with a abundance of radars etc is the Only way we have a hope rn. Thankfully theyre doing a decent job here but we need significantly more. Hopefully as the economy grows we invest more and more into R&D and the private sector starts investing earnestly into R&D intead of screwdrivergiri.

China has been heavily fortiying their side of the mountain. Its not going to be a land war lmao. Theyre not that stupid. If we do have a conflict it will be an air and missile war. Theyre not going to invade us we have enough tech to stop that from happening or at least make it so stupendously costly that theyre alr ageing population will go through furthur damage.

War with india is Not going to be over territory its will be over dominance and keeping India bogged down. Will it work? No. Our babus and leaders only seem to get serious and thrive when the country is literally at stake. We have seen this time and time again. It will still be extremely costly for US and with how much india is growing it will simply create a threat who has extreme hatred and who is big enough to really *censored* with them if not now but in the future.
 
It costs china about 80 million to make a j20. 1k is 80 billion. They can afford 1k when theyre defence budget for capital and maintenance is 320 B USD(they dont count pesnions and other stuff in their mil budget). They also dont count R&D and mix Mil R&D with Civ R&D by calling it fusion. Infra is also not usually counted by even india . This is over 10 years. remember their fighting the US not india.



although yea i dont know if they would go for 1k j20s cause its absurd and very expensive to maintain even 600 is a threat beyond what we can handle even if half was pointed at us.
Harpy1 said:
This china claim of 1000 J20 by 2035
Seems just paper gossip
Firstly every air force needs mix bag of fifth generation hyper expensive to get fifth generation and large modern battle ready fourth generation for high sortie rates to keep flying operations

1000 fifth generation j20 would bankrupt even china
Where is sixth generation development
Air defense
I think china will stop at 600 J20
600 J10c
600 j15
And move to drones and wingmen and sixth generation fighters as USA will.induct F47 and UK Tempest making j20 obsolete
That is far more realistic
As for India
We need
200 Rafales now
200 super Mki up graded
200 Tejas delivered
Then
200 Amca by 2050
Perhaps 100 Tempest order or Fcas in future say 2040
Click to expand...
 
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