Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Optimist said:
Among the best, is different to saying the best,
You felt the need to say, For sure? We imported exchange pilots/instructor from the UK, US and others, We have exchange pilots/instructors and have sent ours overseas, Including to the US, who became an instructor on the F-22, It's not uncommon

So the UK is having an exchange programme with India, it can only be for the betterment of both nations
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From what I gather, this isn't a typical exchange program. No RAF pilots are stationed in India since we bought the Hawk Mk 132s a decade plus ago.

The RAF seems to be short of pilots and ,by extension, instructors currently. That the RAF chose IAF instructors over other Commonwealth AFs surely says something about their skills.
 
_Anonymous_ said:

IAF CAPEX as per the Union Budget has increased from INR 48,000 cr to INR 63,000 cr. That's an increase of INR 15,000 cr. Not even 2 billion USD .

Looking at the list of items IAF desires wonder how exactly is an increase of INR 15000 cr going to suffice .In terms even Hydrocele would understand that means no Rafales next financial year unless of course special budgetary provisions are made which I highly doubt given the paper work itself should take a couple of years before the IGA is inked.

Hell I'm not even sure the IGA for the 120 KN TF will go through . Guess both these IGA's will be signed simultaneously for obvious reasons . Nor is there any news on the agreement for the local mfg / assembly of the F-414 . Real rock n roll times ahead .


Incidentally infrastructure CAPEX has gone up to INR 12.2 lakh cr from ~ INR 11.2 lakh cr for the next financial year.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/2019089289108459901

https://twitter.com/x/status/2019126212501860673
 
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I remember the days of 2015, when Obama came to India. It was touted that US will sell best tech and partner for defense. It has failed big time. And no, it's not our babugiri. US congress haven't been forthcoming to open up the Tech transfer barrier. Most of the product they offer are far from the best.. F-16, F-21, Stryker, Javelin, V-BAT etc.. none of them are extraordinary. Except MQ-9B because we are nowhere to have our own and alternative aren't worth it.

But seriously.. F-16, they really thought any Indian would like for GOI to buy an old FA series that Pak flies. Stryker should be a no go. Doesnt make sense. GE-engine contract( all trust lost after tarrifs tantrum), might not even result in significant implementation.
Civil Nuclear Deal which has just stopped Weapon Testing without justifying gains. ( 17 years)
NVDIA high end Chips sold in limited numbers.


At this point, what exactly is left for Indo-US "BIG" defense deal? Apache have recieved lukewarm reviews iirc.
More predators ?
 
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Subgradewalker said:
I remember the days of 2015, when Obama came to India. It was touted that US will sell best tech and partner for defense. It has failed big time. And no, it's not our babugiri. US congress haven't been forthcoming to open up the Tech transfer barrier. Most of the product they offer are far from the best.. F-16, F-21, Stryker, Javelin, V-BAT etc.. none of them are extraordinary. Except MQ-9B because we are nowhere to have our own and alternative aren't worth it.

But seriously.. F-16, they really thought any Indian would like for GOI to buy an old FA series that Pak flies. Stryker should be a no go. Doesnt make sense. GE-engine contract( all trust lost after tarrifs tantrum), might not even result in significant implementation.
Civil Nuclear Deal which has just stopped Weapon Testing without justifying gains. ( 17 years)
NVDIA high end Chips sold in limited numbers.


At this point, what exactly is left for Indo-US "BIG" defense deal? Apache have recieved lukewarm reviews iirc.
More predators ?
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Imo, the big one right now is the IAFs 5G fighter acquisition. It could be worth more than all the other deals you mentioned - combined.

On the sidelines of the trade deal, the US will likely pressure India to consider the F-35.

It has been a year since AI' 25 where it squared off against Su-57. By now, the IAF has likely submitted a preliminary report to MoD.

But as with the MRCBF contest, GoI will likely force IAF to flight trial both jets in India, if only to keep Trump in good humor.

Besides, it would be a logical way to conclude the IAFs negotiations for the F-35 that have been going on since atleast 2007. Even before India signed up as a partner for FGFA/Su-57.

www.livefistdefence.com

Dangled For 20 Years, F-35 Officially 'Offered' To India - Livefist

AI image by Grok When President Donald Trump declared yesterday that the U.S. was "paving the way to ultimately provide India the F-35 stealth fighters", he changed two decades of history in the India-US defence trade. The F-35 Lightning II, arguably the most advanced tactical fighter aircraft...
www.livefistdefence.com www.livefistdefence.com
 
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Sathya said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2019089289108459901

https://twitter.com/x/status/2019126212501860673
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I don't agree with Hellfire . The Mk-2 is already undergoing development. I don't foresee any major issues with its testing & certification as well. What remains to be seen is the numbers we'd be inducting it in ?

Funds will always be a problem for essentials leave aside luxuries irrespective we're a 4 trillion USD economy or 8 trillion USD for the mentality of our dhotis & babooos is still the same .

As some have remarked our memories are notoriously short lived. The disaster of 1962 may not have been forgotten till date but the lessons have long been forgotten .

Result - we need a reminder every few decades . I'm of the opinion we'd get one soon when the Chinese come calling. Hopefully whoever is in the hot seat then has the good sense to get a stroke like you know who so that the narrative changes from criticism & abuse to sympathy thus absolving the person of any guilt & accountability whatsoever .
 
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Speedster1 said:
Imo, the big one right now is the IAFs 5G fighter acquisition. It could be worth more than all the other deals you mentioned - combined.

On the sidelines of the trade deal, the US will likely pressure India to consider the F-35.

It has been a year since AI' 25 where it squared off against Su-57. By now, the IAF has likely submitted a preliminary report to MoD.

But as with the MRCBF contest, GoI will likely force IAF to flight trial both jets in India, if only to keep Trump in good humor.

Besides, it would be a logical way to conclude the IAFs negotiations for the F-35 that have been going on since atleast 2007. Even before India signed up as a partner for FGFA/Su-57.

www.livefistdefence.com

Dangled For 20 Years, F-35 Officially 'Offered' To India - Livefist

AI image by Grok When President Donald Trump declared yesterday that the U.S. was "paving the way to ultimately provide India the F-35 stealth fighters", he changed two decades of history in the India-US defence trade. The F-35 Lightning II, arguably the most advanced tactical fighter aircraft...
www.livefistdefence.com www.livefistdefence.com
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After whatever has transpired in L'affaire Trump it'd take an extremely brave administration to opt for the F-35 .

Besides there's no way the US is going to consent to trials of the F-35 especially if it's pitched against the Su-57.

Our list of procurements will comprise exactly those items which have been cleared for import , news of which has long been in the public domain. Nothing more or less.

If you actually see demands like what you're suggesting it's likely a trap set to get the Americans to refuse , clearing the way for procurement of the Su-57 .

Any objections from the Americans would then be countered with a reminder that the same offer made to the US was rejected whereas the Russians accepted.
 
Harpy1 said:
Firstly they said the PAF worst nitemare is the Rafale o rder of F.4and F5 fighters explaing the shear size of the Rafale fleet would be impossible to defeat totally and that the Indian air force reducing combat types to three planes ie su30mki Rafale and Tejas some 600plus planes fully networked would be impossible for Pakistan to contend with especially if India gets the Awacs and Additional S400 and Khusa air defense umbrella as well ..
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It's true. But only if China is not involved.
And even if China is not involved, IAF has to maintain some forces against it, so only a part of the Rafale + SU + Tejas will be free to operate against PAF.
Speedster1 said:
F404 was chosen as the preferred engine by the LCA design team (chasing the 'smallest, lightest, single engine delta wing fighter' BS) back in the 1980s. I'd say it was up to the IAF to specify an alternate engine, given the bitter experience of the 98 Pokhran sanctions.

To be fair, the IAF got involved in the project only after the jet's first flight in 2001. In hindsight, mandating a 2nd engine option wouldn't have affected deliveries of Mk1 birds which eventually started in ~2015.

For an AF which was so paranoid about Western sanctions that it inducted Hawk AJTs only after US origin avionics were replaced by European ones, this was a monumental mistake.
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I have a dream.... Tejas Mk2 engined with M88 T-Rex...... :eek:
 
Speedster1 said:
Besides, it would be a logical way to conclude the IAFs negotiations for the F-35 that have been going on since atleast 2007. Even before India signed up as a partner for FGFA/Su-57.
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All the discussions that have taken place between IAF/IN/MoD and LM/DoD for F-35 can be described as preliminary at best, and calling them negotiations would indicate a level of seriousness in terms of considering the aircraft, IMO. Earlier, the path to F-35 went through US 4th gen jets, now it'll go through different equipments and business transactions.

IAF going for PAK-FA settled any debate regarding potential F-35 purchases back in the day. It didn't really gained traction even after us quitting FGFA. I don't think the IAF seriously entertained the idea of F-35 wearing it's roundel when during the last few years PLAAF has levelled up to a potential USAF competitor and surpassing every other AF in the world.

20 years ago, I don't think we could spare enough cash to buy and operate F-35s, now that's not the case. I'd say that those preliminary talks will only now materialise into negotiations, and that's only if the IAF is actively considering the aircraft.
 
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YoungWolf said:
All the discussions that have taken place between IAF/IN/MoD and LM/DoD for F-35 can be described as preliminary at best, and calling them negotiations would indicate a level of seriousness in terms of considering the aircraft, IMO. Earlier, the path to F-35 went through US 4th gen jets, now it'll go through different equipments and business transactions.
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Glad you brought up the IN. In 2011, the IN was seriously considering buying the E-2D Hawkeye for carrier based aew. Unfortunately, our STOBAR carrier decks proved to be too big a hurdle.

At the same time, the IN was also looking at the F-35B as a replacement for the Sea Harrier. Didn't go through with it for some reason.

The IAF was involved in discussions but the LM offer came bundled with the Viper. That was the deal breaker.
 
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Speedster1 said:
In 2011, the IN was seriously considering buying the E-2D Hawkeye for carrier based aew. Unfortunately, our STOBAR carrier decks proved to be too big a hurdle.
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Yeah it's a bummer. E-2D would've boosted shipborne AEW capability in a way a Ka-31 or HM2 Crowsnest just never can. The only thing in my wishlist for a potential IAC-2 (Vikrant follow-on, precursor to Vishal) is a flattop with cats-n-traps just so the IN could operate a proper AEW.

Speedster1 said:
At the same time, the IN was also looking at the F-35B as a replacement for the Sea Harrier. Didn't go through with it for some reason.
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I'll give you a few reasons: high procurement cost (cheaper now but not exactly affordable either), high operating cost, mission capability rate (different from availability rate) ranging between 40-50% on a good day. No wonder a potential F-35B (or C) for INAA went nowhere. Only after this they come up with the MRCBF tender (along with MiG-29K being disappointing) which was a fight between SH and Rafale from day 1.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
JUST FOR REFERENCE

F 16 Block 70 price is same as RAFALE

https://twitter.com/x/status/2019432016564088928
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You may find that apples for apples, The Rafale is significantly dearer, as it has been in the past
It looks as if the link doubles the cost of the package for 12, which was done in September


The Government of Peru has requested to buy ten (10) F-16C Block 70 aircraft; two (2) F-16D Block 70 aircraft; fourteen (14) F110-GE-129 engines (12 installed, 2 spares); fourteen (14) Improved Programmable Display Generators (12 installed, 2 spares); twelve (12) AIM-120C-8 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM); fifty-two (52) LAU-129 guided missile launchers (48 installed, 4 spares); twelve (12) M61A1 anti-aircraft guns; fourteen (14) Embedded Global Positioning System Inertial Navigation Systems (12 installed, 2 spares); fourteen (14) AN/APG-83 active electronically scanned array Scalable Agile Beam Radars (12 installed, 2 spares); fourteen (14) Modular Mission Computers 7000AH (or next generation mission computer equivalent) (12 installed, 2 spares); twelve (12) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder missiles; two (2) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder tactical guidance units; one (1) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder Captive Air Training Missile (CATM) guidance unit; two (2) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder CATMs; and fourteen (14) Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Joint Tactical Radio Systems (12 installed, 2 spares). The following non-MDE items will also be included: Infrared Search and Track systems; missile warning systems; AN/ALQ-254 Viper Shield or equivalent electronic warfare systems; AN/AAQ-28 Litening targeting pods; Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); AIM-120C-8 AMRAAM CATMs; Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems II (JHMCS II) helmet-mounted displays; ammunition; cartridges, chaffs, and flares; weapons support equipment; embedded communications security devices; AN/ALE-47 airborne countermeasures dispenser systems; countermeasure processors, sequencer switching units, and Control Display Units; AN/APX-127 advanced identification friend or foe or equivalent; AN/ARC-238 radios; KIV-78A and KY-58M cryptographic devices; AN/PYQ-10 Simple Key Loaders; night vision devices (NVD) and NVD intensifier tubes; ADU-890 and ADU-891 adaptor group computer test sets; Joint Mission Planning System; pylons, launcher adapters, weapon interfaces, and bomb and ejection racks; fuel tanks; Precision Measurement Equipment Laboratory (PMEL) and calibration support; Common Munitions Built-in-Test Reprogramming Equipment; targeting systems; spare and repair parts, consumables, and accessories; repair and return support; aircraft, engine, ground, and pilot life support equipment; classified and unclassified computer program identification number systems; classified and unclassified software and software support; classified and unclassified publications, manuals, and technical documentation; National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) maps and mapping data; personnel training and training equipment, simulators, and training devices; studies and surveys; facilities and construction support transportation, ferry, and fuel support; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $3.42 billion.
 
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Don't know how accurate it is, nonetheless
> All ISE completed
> There were delays airforce will not agree with it
> 2 main reasons, when we bought this aircraft from france, source code was not shared
> Frenchies said, for any enhancement, this is the money we will charge and handle over the airplanes.
> Hesitation of part of airforce from handing over airframes
> Delays in making payments to Frenchies

https://twitter.com/x/status/2019806793069633676
 
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