Sir,
Where are we now on both Rafael and SU-57 deal, now that Putin visit is behind us.
PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Where are we now on both Rafael and SU-57 deal, now that Putin visit is behind us.
Rafale deal is stuck because of source code and local manufacturing issues whilst Su-57 deal is still in consideration whether to go for MKI like deal or just 60-100 stop-gap jets. More or less, we've decided to buy these jets but how much and what kind of deal, is still under discussion stage.
PS: No sir, please
Some interesting details coming out about Su-57 from Russians @randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @_Anonymous_, @marich01, @Speedster1, @spice, @batman, @Sathya, @YoungWolf et al
"Su-57E key features has been disclosed by Dmitry Aronov, Chief of the Team of the Advanced Projects Department of the Sukhoi Design Bureau at Dubai Airshow 2025
1 > Dmitry Aronov ,
"When comparing aircraft systems, we consider their combat effectiveness, which is a function of many components: flight performance, stealth, onboard equipment capabilities, the composition and quantity of weapons used, operational efficiency, and maintenance characteristics. Therefore, a more effective aircraft is one in which not just one or two individual parameters excel at the expense of others, but one in which all these components of the system are well-balanced.
2 > The F-35 was developed as a companion to the US Air Force's primary F-22 interceptor and is more focused on anti-ground and anti-sea operations. The Chinese chose a similar approach, developing the J-35A as a complement to the heavy J-20 interceptor.
3 > The domestic Su-57 fighter, meanwhile, was initially developed, produced, and used in combat as a multirole, stealthy aircraft with a well-balanced balance of key performance characteristics.
4 > The following important features of the Russian 5th generation aircraft fit harmoniously into this balance:· Low visibility ( Stealth LO )· Supersonic Cruise· Superiority in dueling situations5 > The Su-57E aircraft incorporates a comprehensive suite of radar signature reduction measures, ensuring a radar signature comparable to the best foreign aircraft.
Low radar signature is achieved through a combination of measures, including:·
Special shaping· Placement of weapons in the internal compartments of the fuselage· Measures to protect antenna compartments and special operating modes of onboard electronic equipment·
Use of special radio-absorbing materials and coatings6 > The Su-57E's radar-absorbing materials have absorption parameters similar to those found in foreign aircraft. Their performance characteristics ensure ease of maintenance for the Russian fighter and a wide range of operational conditions.
7 > The unique aerobatic characteristics at subsonic speeds that are typical of Sukhoi Design Bureau aircraft, the aerodynamics and power plant of the Su-57E ensure a high level of flight performance at supersonic speeds, including maneuverability.
8 > The Su-57E is the only fifth-generation aircraft to feature a low-observable, adjustable supersonic air intake, which provides a high total pressure recovery ratio and reduced drag at Mach numbers greater than 1.6. This, in turn, ensures high acceleration performance at speeds close to maximum. Furthermore, it increases the rate of climb and service ceiling.
9 > The aircraft's powerplant and aerodynamic characteristics allow it to achieve supersonic cruise flight. This provides more favorable conditions for missile deployment at Mach 1.4-1.6 and altitudes of 14-16 km, as well as greater supersonic range and combat radius in this flight mode, not only compared to the F-35A but also the F-22.
10 > The electronic systems of modern fifth-generation aircraft are fundamentally identical in their missions and include modern surveillance and defensive radar and optical systems. Furthermore, the Su-57E is capable of operating in a unified tactical situational awareness network with other previous-generation Russian aircraft by adapting their onboard communications systems.
11 > In such a case, should a duel situation arise in a real air combat, in addition to its high flight performance, a significant advantage of the Russian Su-57E fighter will be its ability to fire a wide range of long-range air-to-air missiles in a stealthy configuration from its internal fuselage compartments.
12 > A unique feature of the Su-57E's airborne weapons system is the ability to customize its cargo compartments. For example, the aircraft can be equipped with separate fuel tanks alongside various missiles, a combination that allows for flexible customization of the Su-57E's combat capabilities.
13 > The Russian fighter is also capable of firing a long-arm cruise missile from its internal compartments—a first for the global arms market.14 > The Su-57E's existing technical design is constantly being improved. New electronic equipment is being introduced, engines with improved performance are being tested, and new, more intelligent air-to-air weapons are being integrated.Credit: Sukhoi Design Bureau/Dmitry Aronov Dubai Airshow 2025"
Source:
"Su-57E key features has been disclosed by Dmitry Aronov, Chief of the Team of the Advanced Projects Department of the Sukhoi Design Bureau at Dubai Airshow 2025
1 > Dmitry Aronov ,
"When comparing aircraft systems, we consider their combat effectiveness, which is a function of many components: flight performance, stealth, onboard equipment capabilities, the composition and quantity of weapons used, operational efficiency, and maintenance characteristics. Therefore, a more effective aircraft is one in which not just one or two individual parameters excel at the expense of others, but one in which all these components of the system are well-balanced.
2 > The F-35 was developed as a companion to the US Air Force's primary F-22 interceptor and is more focused on anti-ground and anti-sea operations. The Chinese chose a similar approach, developing the J-35A as a complement to the heavy J-20 interceptor.
3 > The domestic Su-57 fighter, meanwhile, was initially developed, produced, and used in combat as a multirole, stealthy aircraft with a well-balanced balance of key performance characteristics.
4 > The following important features of the Russian 5th generation aircraft fit harmoniously into this balance:· Low visibility ( Stealth LO )· Supersonic Cruise· Superiority in dueling situations5 > The Su-57E aircraft incorporates a comprehensive suite of radar signature reduction measures, ensuring a radar signature comparable to the best foreign aircraft.
Low radar signature is achieved through a combination of measures, including:·
Special shaping· Placement of weapons in the internal compartments of the fuselage· Measures to protect antenna compartments and special operating modes of onboard electronic equipment·
Use of special radio-absorbing materials and coatings6 > The Su-57E's radar-absorbing materials have absorption parameters similar to those found in foreign aircraft. Their performance characteristics ensure ease of maintenance for the Russian fighter and a wide range of operational conditions.
7 > The unique aerobatic characteristics at subsonic speeds that are typical of Sukhoi Design Bureau aircraft, the aerodynamics and power plant of the Su-57E ensure a high level of flight performance at supersonic speeds, including maneuverability.
8 > The Su-57E is the only fifth-generation aircraft to feature a low-observable, adjustable supersonic air intake, which provides a high total pressure recovery ratio and reduced drag at Mach numbers greater than 1.6. This, in turn, ensures high acceleration performance at speeds close to maximum. Furthermore, it increases the rate of climb and service ceiling.
9 > The aircraft's powerplant and aerodynamic characteristics allow it to achieve supersonic cruise flight. This provides more favorable conditions for missile deployment at Mach 1.4-1.6 and altitudes of 14-16 km, as well as greater supersonic range and combat radius in this flight mode, not only compared to the F-35A but also the F-22.
10 > The electronic systems of modern fifth-generation aircraft are fundamentally identical in their missions and include modern surveillance and defensive radar and optical systems. Furthermore, the Su-57E is capable of operating in a unified tactical situational awareness network with other previous-generation Russian aircraft by adapting their onboard communications systems.
11 > In such a case, should a duel situation arise in a real air combat, in addition to its high flight performance, a significant advantage of the Russian Su-57E fighter will be its ability to fire a wide range of long-range air-to-air missiles in a stealthy configuration from its internal fuselage compartments.
12 > A unique feature of the Su-57E's airborne weapons system is the ability to customize its cargo compartments. For example, the aircraft can be equipped with separate fuel tanks alongside various missiles, a combination that allows for flexible customization of the Su-57E's combat capabilities.
13 > The Russian fighter is also capable of firing a long-arm cruise missile from its internal compartments—a first for the global arms market.14 > The Su-57E's existing technical design is constantly being improved. New electronic equipment is being introduced, engines with improved performance are being tested, and new, more intelligent air-to-air weapons are being integrated.Credit: Sukhoi Design Bureau/Dmitry Aronov Dubai Airshow 2025"
Source:
@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @_Anonymous_, @marich01, @Speedster1, @spice, @batman, @Sathya, @YoungWolf ,@South block, @FenicromovCW et al
Some more tidbits about Su-57's stealth in Russo-Ukraine war and last sentence about Su-57MKI(prospective Indian license production version):
Some more tidbits about Su-57's stealth in Russo-Ukraine war and last sentence about Su-57MKI(prospective Indian license production version):
Still, it remains to be seen how many of these jets the Russians end up procuring. That'd be the real testament to how good this aircraft actually is.
they alr bought 76 and looking at their current production rate they are actually going to meet their target in 2027. Must be nice to have a wartime economy with 11% of the GDP going to defence eh.
But anyway they are the only guys with experience in going against one of the world's most heavily defended countries in terms of AD(There was like some absurd stat where ukraine had nearly as much AD as europe combined(a lot of very high quality soviet stuff since ukraine was the buffer state into the heartland of russia i.e. moscow)). Israel and the US went against countries with either inferior and uncoordinated defence (venezuela) or sabotaged defence (iran).
There are two realities to this. Either the su57 is genuinly not great and cant infiltrate or having a good AD ecosystem is key to stopping stealth. We know that the su57 might not be as good as the f35 in stealth buts it far better than 4.5gen fighters. There are multiple international forums where this topic has been discussed extensively.
While the su57 can infiltrate it cannot go deep(we saw it infiltrate like 2 yrs ago in the donbas where it shot down its own s70 drone, cant be denied because we saw clear video evidence). Ofc it could also because russia doesnt have a lot of them and doesnt want to lose them over ukraine where their su30 and su35s and mig 31s are dominating either way.
No decision yet on Su-57: HAL awaits Russian team’s report on cost
The cost report, which is expected this month, will provide a clear picture of the quantum of expenditure needed to manufacture the Russian fifth-generation fighter jets in India, including advanced technologies, human resource, infrastructure, and supply chain development.
indianexpress.com
A Russian team studying the feasibility of manufacturing the fifth-generation Su-57 stealth fighter aircraft in India is expected to submit a report on the overall cost that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will incur if both countries decide to proceed with the project, The Indian Express has learnt.
According to sources, the cost report, which is expected this month, will provide a clear picture of the quantum of expenditure needed to manufacture the Russian fifth-generation fighter jets in India, including advanced technologies, human resource, infrastructure, and supply chain development. The Russian team, which includes representatives from the Sukhoi Design Bureau among defence entities, had sent a report to HAL around two months ago, highlighting that HAL already has half the infrastructure in place to produce the fifth-generation aircraft in India.
Sources said this became possible because HAL has been producing the Su-30 fighter aircraft. An Inter-Governmental Agreement for licence production of the Su-30MKI in India was signed in December 2000.
The exercise is an initiative of HAL in order to get an estimate of the investments and its capacity if this fighter jet were to be produced in India.
T
Thanks for the mention and information. The reasons mentioned above are some of the reasons I believe su57 to be the best designed 5th gen right now. Not to mention its design philosophy is the most similar to future 6th gen platforms, flat design, blended wings and fuselage, tiny vertical stabilizers, AI, extra long combat radius, large Internal Weapons Bay, multi-band radar coverage etc
UAC CEO said " India's discussions with Russia over the Su-57 have moved into an advanced technical stage , with talks now focused on detailed parameters rather than broad intent"
@Rajput Lion
Yeah, keep discussing between HAL and Sukhoi. The bus has left the station.No decision yet on Su-57: HAL awaits Russian team’s report on cost
The cost report, which is expected this month, will provide a clear picture of the quantum of expenditure needed to manufacture the Russian fifth-generation fighter jets in India, including advanced technologies, human resource, infrastructure, and supply chain development.
A Russian team studying the feasibility of manufacturing the fifth-generation Su-57 stealth fighter aircraft in India is expected to submit a report on the overall cost that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will incur if both countries decide to proceed with the project, The Indian Express has learnt.
According to sources, the cost report, which is expected this month, will provide a clear picture of the quantum of expenditure needed to manufacture the Russian fifth-generation fighter jets in India, including advanced technologies, human resource, infrastructure, and supply chain development. The Russian team, which includes representatives from the Sukhoi Design Bureau among defence entities, had sent a report to HAL around two months ago, highlighting that HAL already has half the infrastructure in place to produce the fifth-generation aircraft in India.
Sources said this became possible because HAL has been producing the Su-30 fighter aircraft. An Inter-Governmental Agreement for licence production of the Su-30MKI in India was signed in December 2000.
The exercise is an initiative of HAL in order to get an estimate of the investments and its capacity if this fighter jet were to be produced in India.
Russian and there never ending propaganda & disinformation....... If it had been such a stealthy beast as claimed, I assure you Russia would have churning it out in hundreds a year & russians would not have lost a million man in Ukraine. Russian military knows about what a tin can it is & also knows there are willingly desperate bakras around the world ready to take this crap.
As I keep on saying
UAC CEO said " India's discussions with Russia over the Su-57 have moved into an advanced technical stage , with talks now focused on detailed parameters rather than broad intent"
@Rajput Lion
. Don't worry about the naysayers, they're in for a rude surprise
Su-57 did enter deep into Ukrainian territory to destroy stray S-70 Okhotnik-B. No other Russian jet could have achieved that because of dense UkAF air-defence, validating Su-57s stealth in real world condition. Obviously, it is not as stealthy as Raptor but for our needs(to counter J-20 & J-35), it's by far the best option.
As I keep on saying
Su-57 did enter deep into Ukrainian territory to destroy stray S-70 Okhotnik-B. No other Russian jet could have achieved that because of dense UkAF air-defence, validating Su-57s stealth in real world condition. Obviously, it is not as stealthy as Raptor but for our needs(to counter J-20 & J-35), it's by far the best option.
Su-57 may not be a bad performer at all. I just wish Sukhoi was more forthcoming about the finer details like ioc/foc status, production rate, cost per flight hour, turnaround time, flyaway cost etc. Those aspects are just as important as the jet's stealth/avionics/ensor/weapon fit.
Till date, Su-57 has had just one export customer, Algeria. (I've yet to come across 1 pic of this bird in Alergian colors, though)
Even the Iranians are reportedly buying Su-35S over the stealthy Su-57 which would've otherwise been the best option to counter Israeli F-35s in a conflict.
I understand the Russians are currently at war. But potential customers would need data to consider your product.
Su-57S with AL-41F1 has already achieved FOC and is actively deployed in their current conflict. Its export variant Su-57E has been offered to many prospective customers of which Algeria has already selected it and many more are in line. All technical details would have been shared to its prospective customers.
With India, it's different. We'll not only license manufacture the jet but unlike MKI deal, this time around we'll also hold joint IP for our (Su-57)MKI version and also of its engine. Which means that we can fine tune the jet without Russian approval and will be able to support the jet with enough localised logistics and spares without any Russian help.
The number of ac in service is not known, though. Any claims from Rostec/UAC need to be taken with a pinch of salt. They are desperate for sales. Although they may be deliberately keeping things under wraps for wartime opsec reasons.
Foriegn interest in the Su-57 has dried up because of Caatsa and other geopolitical/trade factors.
Iirc, Indonesia has given up on plans to buy Su-30/35 family ac under US pressure and opted for the Rafale. The Malaysians were similarly considering whether to keep or retire their MKMs.
India is the Su-57s only hope of redemption in the international market. And we too are out of options now. The F-35 is dead. KF-21 et all are direct competitors to the AMCA.
But if we end up with the Su-57, we must extract our pound of flesh from the Russians in terms of cryogenic rocket motor tech, metallurgy, REE, hypersonics, n-sub tech, et all.
I've already said before that around 60-80 direct "off-the-shelf" single-seat Su-57Is(though it could be of 2-seat variant as well) and around 140 2-seat Su-57MKIs locally manufactured in India. The talks are completely classified so no official confirmation before US trade deal and until we sign the dotted line.
Rest, all excellent points
mate i have a feeling your numbers are wayyyyy off lol, its going to be like 30 Su57Es and maybe 90 -100 SU57MKIs. At most. its probably less than that unless the IAF really really wants a 2 seat 5th genI've already said before that around 60-80 direct "off-the-shelf" single-seat Su-57Is(though it could be of 2-seat variant as well) and around 140 2-seat Su-57MKIs locally manufactured in India. The talks are completely classified so no official confirmation before US trade deal and until we sign the dotted line.
Rest, all excellent points
February 4, 2026
www.rbc.ru
The US may impose sanctions against Algeria over the purchase of Russian Su-57 fighter jets.
In 2025, Algeria confirmed an order for fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets from Russia. The US considers the deal "problematic" and is prepared to invoke the Countering Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, the State Department stated.
The United States may impose sanctions against Algeria over the purchase of Russian fighter jets, said Robert Palladino, head of the US State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs. His words were quoted by the newspapers An-Nahar and Al Shams.
During a hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Palladino noted that reports of Algeria's purchase of Russian fighter jets were of concern to the US administration and expressed his willingness to use the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CATSA) through sanctions.
When asked about the measures the US administration was taking to dissuade Algeria from purchasing Russian-made military equipment, he replied: "We work closely with the Algerian government on issues where we find common ground. But we certainly disagree on many issues, and the arms deal is an example of what the United States considers problematic."
"We use the diplomatic tools at our disposal, often privately, to protect our interests and prevent what we consider unacceptable," Palladino added.
In 2025, Algeria confirmed an order for fifth-generation Su-57E fighter jets from Russia (the letter denotes the export variant). Defense Arabic and Global Defense Corp reported that delivery is planned for the end of this year, with Algerian pilots already undergoing training in Russia.
The Su-57 is expected to replace the MiG-25, which Algeria retired in 2022. The new aircraft could also eventually replace the Su-30, which the Algerian army currently has 72 of, contracted between 2006 and 2020, according to Defense Arabic.
Last year, Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheev announced that the Su-57E had its first foreign customer, who would receive it in 2025. /END
The US threatened an African country with sanctions over Russian fighter jets
США пригрозили африканской стране санкциями из-за российских истребителей
В 2025 году Алжир подтвердил заказ у России истребителей пятого поколения Су-57. США считают сделку «проблематичной» и готовы использовать закон о противодействии противникам посредством санкций, заявили в Госдепе
www.rbc.ru
The US may impose sanctions against Algeria over the purchase of Russian Su-57 fighter jets.
In 2025, Algeria confirmed an order for fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets from Russia. The US considers the deal "problematic" and is prepared to invoke the Countering Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, the State Department stated.
The United States may impose sanctions against Algeria over the purchase of Russian fighter jets, said Robert Palladino, head of the US State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs. His words were quoted by the newspapers An-Nahar and Al Shams.
During a hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Palladino noted that reports of Algeria's purchase of Russian fighter jets were of concern to the US administration and expressed his willingness to use the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CATSA) through sanctions.
When asked about the measures the US administration was taking to dissuade Algeria from purchasing Russian-made military equipment, he replied: "We work closely with the Algerian government on issues where we find common ground. But we certainly disagree on many issues, and the arms deal is an example of what the United States considers problematic."
"We use the diplomatic tools at our disposal, often privately, to protect our interests and prevent what we consider unacceptable," Palladino added.
In 2025, Algeria confirmed an order for fifth-generation Su-57E fighter jets from Russia (the letter denotes the export variant). Defense Arabic and Global Defense Corp reported that delivery is planned for the end of this year, with Algerian pilots already undergoing training in Russia.
The Su-57 is expected to replace the MiG-25, which Algeria retired in 2022. The new aircraft could also eventually replace the Su-30, which the Algerian army currently has 72 of, contracted between 2006 and 2020, according to Defense Arabic.
Last year, Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheev announced that the Su-57E had its first foreign customer, who would receive it in 2025. /END
This kind of bullying may work against Algeria(or not!), but certainly not against India. We had two options:February 4, 2026
The US threatened an African country with sanctions over Russian fighter jets
США пригрозили африканской стране санкциями из-за российских истребителей
В 2025 году Алжир подтвердил заказ у России истребителей пятого поколения Су-57. США считают сделку «проблематичной» и готовы использовать закон о противодействии противникам посредством санкций, заявили в Госдепе
The US may impose sanctions against Algeria over the purchase of Russian Su-57 fighter jets.
In 2025, Algeria confirmed an order for fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets from Russia. The US considers the deal "problematic" and is prepared to invoke the Countering Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, the State Department stated.
The United States may impose sanctions against Algeria over the purchase of Russian fighter jets, said Robert Palladino, head of the US State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs. His words were quoted by the newspapers An-Nahar and Al Shams.
During a hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Palladino noted that reports of Algeria's purchase of Russian fighter jets were of concern to the US administration and expressed his willingness to use the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CATSA) through sanctions.
When asked about the measures the US administration was taking to dissuade Algeria from purchasing Russian-made military equipment, he replied: "We work closely with the Algerian government on issues where we find common ground. But we certainly disagree on many issues, and the arms deal is an example of what the United States considers problematic."
"We use the diplomatic tools at our disposal, often privately, to protect our interests and prevent what we consider unacceptable," Palladino added.
In 2025, Algeria confirmed an order for fifth-generation Su-57E fighter jets from Russia (the letter denotes the export variant). Defense Arabic and Global Defense Corp reported that delivery is planned for the end of this year, with Algerian pilots already undergoing training in Russia.
The Su-57 is expected to replace the MiG-25, which Algeria retired in 2022. The new aircraft could also eventually replace the Su-30, which the Algerian army currently has 72 of, contracted between 2006 and 2020, according to Defense Arabic.
Last year, Rosoboronexport CEO Alexander Mikheev announced that the Su-57E had its first foreign customer, who would receive it in 2025. /END
1. 114 F16Vs as MRFA with 60 F-35s as 5th gen stop-gap.
V/s
2. 114 Rafale as MRFA with 60 Su-57I as 5th gen stop-gap.
With IAF selecting 114 Rafales, it's clear which direction we're headed towards and there ain't a thing Uncle Sam can do about it.