France has shown true colors by tweeting regrets over the death of anti-india leader in Bangladesh. How can French be trusted? Also - they never delivered on the offsets for 36 rafales.
No more rafales.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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No more rafales.
i mean, i never understood government entire bullshit "lets do 36 with option of 36 more" way. It should have been 140 or whatever with inital 36 or so delivered from france, rest built in India under ToT and license. The negotiation should have been ToT and license. If HAL can not do it, then Adani or Reliance should have been called in to manage the show. If neither, then Dassault should have been allowed to open a factory directly in India and the money spent should have counted against their re-investment commitment.
Make-in-India Rafale Jets Only Feasible If Full 140 Orders Placed; F5 Variant On Cards For IAF: Officials
A suspected leak from France’s Ministry of the Armed Forces a few days back suggests that India intends to procure 90 Rafale F4 multirole fighter aircraft, with an additional option for 24 next-generation Rafale F5 variants for the Indian Air Force (IAF). IAF had also reportedly moved a case for...www.eurasiantimes.com
Not 90 jets, not 114, now 140 !!!
***
Key words are "more" and "additional" Meteor
170 $ million => something like 100 missiles.
Actually, if Dassault had established a line in India, it would have helped them to sell more Rafale because orderbook would not have been constrained by capacity.
Dude who cares?
When India is not taking punitive actions openly, why do you care if a country so far away is making this or that gesture.
If India has so much issues then just hit Bangladesh openly. Put it in its place. Remove that idiot interim PM Yunus. Bomb and kill all the student leaders. Or covertly kill them all.
When we are moving so slowly here, there is a bigger issue. We should have disposed off these Jamaati vermins but we did not.
IAF Pivoting To 114 Rafales As Final Cure For MMRCA Legacy - Livefist
In a move that could signal the end of one of the world's most protracted defence procurement sagas, the Indian Government is reported to be slowly converging on a decision to order 114 more Rafale fighters for the Indian Air Force. The decision, if it happens, effectively closes the chapter…
www.livefistdefence.com
The end of a never ending story ???IAF Pivoting To 114 Rafales As Final Cure For MMRCA Legacy - Livefist
In a move that could signal the end of one of the world's most protracted defence procurement sagas, the Indian Government is reported to be slowly converging on a decision to order 114 more Rafale fighters for the Indian Air Force. The decision, if it happens, effectively closes the chapter…
All Good Things come to an End
By the way, I was wondering that IF
India had somehow signed on a 126 plane order in 2016 , then this Deal on Engine Technology with SAFRAN ie 120 KN engine deal would Never have materialised
So Engine Deal has Manifested AFTER
36 + 26 + 114 RAFALES
India didn't have the negotiating power in 2016 at the level it does now. Not out economy was strong in 2016, neither was Europe going through internal economic and security crisis.All Good Things come to an End
By the way, I was wondering that IF
India had somehow signed on a 126 plane order in 2016 , then this Deal on Engine Technology with SAFRAN ie 120 KN engine deal would Never have materialised
So Engine Deal has Manifested AFTER
36 + 26 + 114 RAFALES
Politically, 2016 EU was far-left liberal dominated heavily too. Its only in 2018-2020 when immigration and Russia came down at once to shatter their illusion.
Even if engine tech was linked with 150+ Rafale F4 variants, the French wouldnt be serious about it neither our industry be able to hope about absorbing it anytime soon.
Its not just a factory, it's a ecosystem. Where civil and military industry lines blur through shared logistics, red tapes, infrastructure, growth momentum, credit availability, public acceptance, supply chain lower down the order etc etc... It's not just geo-politics. Its reality.
Defence Ministry to discuss Rs 3.25 lakh crore 114 Rafale fighter jet deal this week Read more At: https://www.aninews.in/news/nationa...ale-fighter-jet-deal-this-week20260113180501/
An engine that may also be used to power the "french only" FCAS.....All Good Things come to an End
By the way, I was wondering that IF
India had somehow signed on a 126 plane order in 2016 , then this Deal on Engine Technology with SAFRAN ie 120 KN engine deal would Never have materialised
So Engine Deal has Manifested AFTER
36 + 26 + 114 RAFALES
So you are saying that
FCAS will be powered by this New Engine
And we are planning to use it on AMCA Mk 2
Rafale deal to be inked in 2026, final assembly line in Nagpur, Indian firms to be roped in
The proposed project costing about Rs 3.25 lakh crore will entail procurement of 18 aircraft in fly away condition & the rest made in India with up to 60% indigenous content.
theprint.in
India and France have agreed on the modalities for the procurement of the 114 Rafale F4* fighters for the Indian Air Force (IAF), official formalities for which will be completed by end of 2026 or early 2027, ThePrint has learnt.
The proposed project, which will cost about Rs 3.25 lakh crore, would entail procurement of 18 aircraft in fly away condition and the rest manufactured in India with up to 60 percent indigenous content, achieved in phases just like the C-295 transport aircraft. The Tejas aircraft currently has an indigenous content of 62 percent.
The contract will also have the option to upgrade the Indian Rafale to F5 version as and when it comes. Existing Rafale aircraft with the IAF will also be upgraded to the F4 version as part of the contract.
The F4 standard focuses on improving the connectivity of the Rafale through new satellite and intra-flight links, communications servers, and software radios, improving its effectiveness in net-centric combat and paving the way for the Future Combat Air System (FCAS).
The Rafale in service with India is the F3-R plus version, all of which will be upgraded to the latest standard, sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint. The IAF’s Rafale has 13 India-specific enhancements, a notch above the F3 variants.
The sources said that final costing and other details will be worked out formally once the project gets the Acceptance of Necessity (AON) and subsequent formalities are completed. They added that there was a recent high-ranking meeting between Indian and French sides where the broad contours of the deal were finalised.
If the deal is signed early 2027, the , contract signing will be sped up since the broad contours have already been agreed to and formal processes have to be completed.
It is learnt that the final assembly line for the Rafales will come up at the Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) Nagpur facility, which is now a subsidiary of the French aviation major Dassault Aviation that manufactures the fighter.
In September last year, Dassault Aviation acquired the majority stake in the joint venture. It is learnt that Anil Ambani-led Reliance, could sell its minority stake to another Indian company following which DRAL would be renamed if the plans move ahead.
Multiple Indian companies like TATA, Mahindra, Dynamatic Technologies Limited along with over 3 dozen other firms are expected to be part of the Rafale project. TATA has already been contracted for manufacturing the fuselage for the Rafale which will go into foreign orders at this moment.
It is also learnt that the Final Assembly Line (FAL) will eventually cater to Rafale’s global demand and will act as the second manufacturing hub of the French aviation major.
The sources said that the overall Indian numbers could go up with time. Dassault Aviation has a capacity to produce 25 aircraft per year, which is being planned to increase to 50. The Indian FAL will have a capacity of 24 aircraft per year.
The sources said that while Dassault is manufacturing the Rafale F4 version, India is going with certain upgrades to the Spectra electronic warfare system and the version will be known as F4 Star or F4*.
It is more likely to be entangled about GoI wish of some part of local mfg for the jets. Any large procurement from foreign source have always been some jets as in fly away condition 25-30% while the rest are to be locally assembled + future orders to cater for shortfall + contingency & gap filling. This is how most deals are structured. Plus the usual stuff like integrate all kind of weapons, user chosen electronic package, subsystems etc. In reality what IAF want to use is a highly customised jugaad/custom jet which would obviously cost way way more than the baseline country specific customised version.All Good Things come to an End
By the way, I was wondering that IF
India had somehow signed on a 126 plane order in 2016 , then this Deal on Engine Technology with SAFRAN ie 120 KN engine deal would Never have materialised
So Engine Deal has Manifested AFTER
36 + 26 + 114 RAFALES
France as a seller only want to sell in fly away condition, and Dassault would charge as much as they like if their govt gives them green light for whatever GoI as customer want. This is why GoI went with the flyaway version in small numbers , which makes up the short % of the estimated total nos in the previous deal. It took this long to persuade France/Dassault to the above condition/compromise from a business pov (which is not certain yet). Engine deal is one more leverage in the whole issue.
G2G deals are complex, and in our case it is even more due to various cases passing through different govt regimes. Without a foreign Govt agreeing to local assy of their product like Rus did, only flight ready flyaway version nos we are going to see is like the small nos. Same story for MRFA.
Key part in this whole issue is IAF insistence on a twin engine jet from the EU source as preference. This is their preference because they would get training association with a different airforce that prioritize use of air power somewhat differently/better than Russians. This jet would be medium hence good in swing role, which IAF & Rus do with a heavy class fighter like the Su series.
I find it a bit odd that people who criticises Rafale procurement from the cost perspective (not judging , just saying at obvious face value) would want to accelerate LCA contracts and deliveries, even though a large part of that capex, about 30-40% for the engine alone (not sure), would be an outflow to another different foreign vendor.
The moral is if the Govt has one and only mindset & priority of local assembling foreign product so each side can get a cut out of taxpayers money via back channels, the cost side does not really matter. We taxpayers will fund both anyway but will never be in any position to influence. This mindset will come back in different word salad packaging to justify the case like now. Pvt vendors know the game for decades if not centuries.
The moral is if the Govt has one and only mindset & priority of local assembling foreign product so each side can get a cut out of taxpayers money via back channels, the cost side does not really matter. We taxpayers will fund both anyway but will never be in any position to influence. This mindset will come back in different word salad packaging to justify the case like now. Pvt vendors know the game for decades if not centuries.
I hope this purchase goes through.
Only then we can expect to see J-35A in the PAF .
Otherwise it's the Mirages all the way
Only then we can expect to see J-35A in the PAF .
Otherwise it's the Mirages all the way
I hope this purchase goes through.
Only then we can expect to see J-35A in the PAF .
Otherwise it's the Mirages all the way
Read this thread
What do you think about this perspective?