But why spice -250, when you can have SAAW EO
Indeed.
And why ICE Breaker when JSR LRP2GM can be progressed?
I dont even see a VLO cruise missile requirement called out in TPCR 2025, let alone TPCR 2020 when it should have been called out.
ICE Breaker is for Tejas & JSR LRP2GM is a low quality science project from your typical useless money laundering startups.... Everything can be progressed with no end-sight of development or delivery.
Air LORA is probably the best thing about this deal...... Hope we licence manufacture it here in huge numbers.
Sure, if local industry doesnt have a solution then EP makes sense.
But that is not the point I'm making. Before it became an "emergency" was requirement ever raised for a 600mm+ ALBM? Or a VLO ALCM? These are non strategic assets so there should be news out there.
Post-Ukraine, there is a growing demand for small, low-cost alcm which has lead to the dev of systems like Anduril/Lockheed CMMT and Rafael Spice 250ER (Some reports say the IAF is buying the latter)
These are easier to produce at scale than your typical jassm, Taurus, Scalp, Delilah, etc.
JSR CEO is ex-IAF so he probably sees scope for a similar weapon for the IAF.
Tha said, the JSR product range is still in the early stages of dev. What the company has revealed so far are just concepts and mockups.
The designs will have to be further refined before they can even prototype them. Plus JSR has not revealed who their suppliers are for elements like propulsion, nav/guidance, etc. I don't think they can do it all in-house.
I also dont like these kind of imports but what exactly you mean by the mention of "progressed" missile project. Wait for five more years of testing and a few more years until it is produced?
Everyone needs to take into consideration how hard and time-consuming it is to develop and validate a missile. Go to the first page of this thread (In 2017), they were suppose to be done with Nag trials. Do you know when it received the order? Last year. Every part of the system is slow to adopt and deliver.
We gave away $5-6 billion for S400 without any local industry involvement. That's called desperation. All of these Israeli contracts have local value added. Its 10x better path.
Things like TPCR is a guideline for the industry. No military can foresee how things evolve in the future with full certainty. Today, the most competent services in the US military are running parallel programs to catch up with Russia on affordable cruise missiles and Chinese hypersonics. Their navy couldn't deliver a single successful hull design in the last three decades.
We need to increase R&D investment and testing infrastructure so that we can fail fast and iterate. Today, DRDO need to answer to CAG on every failure. Without those structural changes, imports will continue. Calling names and abuses are not the answer.
Most of the people who have become 'insightful' believe if a system has been imported once it will be replicated within a couple of years and we will have our own versions deployed. There seems to be almost some sort of consensus that all missile systems come with 50 or more percent of ToT.
There is something called Contract Management under the P2P process. Read about IP rights and folks will soon understand how many loop holes there are to protect the OEM. When it comes to core functions almost everyone denies you ToT.
If you wish to make missile systems that you may call your own - You'll have to put in the work and that takes years of effort and testing. These efforts are further complicated due to the unique client - 'MoD'. I am sure you can search and find how Indian MoD operates.
There is something called Contract Management under the P2P process. Read about IP rights and folks will soon understand how many loop holes there are to protect the OEM. When it comes to core functions almost everyone denies you ToT.
If you wish to make missile systems that you may call your own - You'll have to put in the work and that takes years of effort and testing. These efforts are further complicated due to the unique client - 'MoD'. I am sure you can search and find how Indian MoD operates.
On another note as stated by another member this is a good system. An article from recent months (I am not aware if it was linked before on any other thread).
alphadefense.in
SAAW EO DRDO’s NextGen Long Range Strike Weapon
SAAW EO is DRDO’s next-generation long-range precision-guided air-to-surface bomb with an advanced electro-optical seeker
alphadefense.in
Wasn't this supposed to be already tested in 2023 ? Guess it is still not inducted thoughOn another note as stated by another member this is a good system. An article from recent months (I am not aware if it was linked before on any other thread).
SAAW EO DRDO’s NextGen Long Range Strike Weapon
SAAW EO is DRDO’s next-generation long-range precision-guided air-to-surface bomb with an advanced electro-optical seeker
Only long term R&D with investment in test infrastructure can give you IP worthy products like pinaka, ATAGS, Brahmos versions etc. Also, One has to consider how design and production expertise are different things. ToT can provide you with expertise in production processes. All DPSUs and some MSMEs have benefited from offsets and ToT.
The point of Spice-250 ER is the ER part which is the addition of small turbojet engine.On another note as stated by another member this is a good system. An article from recent months (I am not aware if it was linked before on any other thread).
SAAW EO DRDO’s NextGen Long Range Strike Weapon
SAAW EO is DRDO’s next-generation long-range precision-guided air-to-surface bomb with an advanced electro-optical seeker
I agree. Production capabilities and along with human resource development are different from development-concept phases when considering the product life. ToT has brought benefits (not denying it as can be seen across various institutions). However, the percentages (of ToT) vary and have different degree of impact dependent on absorption capabilities and organisational attitude. Also, depends on the management's ability to ensure that standards/knowledge imparted evolves and keeps up with advancement. A continuous and I would add arduous thing as well.
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There was a comment earlier that when either tech is denied, or when there is a convergence of interest between beaucracy, armed forces and research then India has shown ability to make rapid progress especially with missile tech. And instead of outright purchase is there a path to a JV even if a little longer instead of going through emergency procurement route?
Even the TPCR 2025 can't have requirements for EPs being made in 2025, for which even the vanilla public is aware of the tech for decades like LoRAs from 2006 and Predator Hawks from 2015? I'm not sure I find that convincing. The closest explaining the dysfunction was the following response to me:
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That might be true, but the results is after decades of development like nuclear submarines or ballistic missiles. We are still far behind due to this slowness.
Even the TPCR 2025 can't have requirements for EPs being made in 2025, for which even the vanilla public is aware of the tech for decades like LoRAs from 2006 and Predator Hawks from 2015? I'm not sure I find that convincing. The closest explaining the dysfunction was the following response to me:
Yes, armed forces are designed to be on a leash. Look around your neighborhood and its military history to see why. Bureaucracy runs the show, and that's not limited to defense.
Ice Breaker isn't too bad either. It has autonomous navigation (operates in gps denied environments) + advance onboard eccm. Afaik, the only other missile advertised with these capabilities is the US LRASM.
Additionally, IB is light enough (400kg) to be carried by our Sea Hawk naval helos. There is no word on the INs planned acquisition of Kongsberg NSM for these birds, anyways. Good choice, I'd say.
It's basically analog of Naval Strike Missile.
Why not use the same motor in the Gaurav glide bomb or range extension kit for extended range?
www.iitm.ac.in
IIT Madras develops ramjet-assisted Artillery Shells to extend gun range without compromising lethality | Indian Institute of Technology Madras
IIT Madras develops ramjet-assisted Artillery Shells to extend gun range without compromising lethality
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Have you even seen the size of Gaurav LRGB ? How are you even going to propel that with a such a small ramjet.
Jet powered bomb with HSLD-250 warhead already in development.
Let the test happen, and let it fail for the first time, then let them realize it needs little modification and then test it again till it flies with constant speed.