K-Series Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missiles: News & Discussions

Dang, this thing is huge!

At 2.4m dia, it's thicker than the Trident-II D5, Bulava & even the M51. But I reckon that's because our solid-fuel tech isn't yet at par with the West or Russia's latest. The older R-39 (which Bulava replaced) had a similar diameter.

On the other hand, increasing the diameter may help us keep the length of the missile in check. Because that figure will have major implications to the design of SSBNs. A shorter, stouter missile is easier to design for than a thinner, longer one. You can only make the missile hump so big before it starts to create problems for hydrodynamics & stealth.
The new leaked pics show S5 without hump. What do you make of it? And with such a huge missile, I reckon the range even with 3 MIRV is well beyond 5,000 km!
This one ?

View attachment 47707

This streamlined hull SSBN will most likely carry the K-6 SLBM in the distant future.......The SLBM gonna be compact and have dimensions similar to modern SLBMs like the Trident D5, M51, and Bulava....... There’s just no way the K 5, with its humongous size, can fit inside that kind of hull without a visible hump....... it’s physically impossible.
Why would they be doing it now with streamlined hull? Or perhaps these leaked pics are of P77?
 
The new leaked pics show S5 without hump. What do you make of it? And with such a huge missile, I reckon the range even with 3 MIRV is well beyond 5,000 km!

Why would they be doing it now with streamlined hull? Or perhaps these leaked pics are of P77?

It's all relative - depends on how big the beam of the S5 hull was to begin with. And the recent model too had a hump - just less prominent is all.

Plus, I haven't yet seen definitive figures of the length of the missile.
 
If the Arihant hull form is any indication, the S5 will likely also feature a streamlined teardrop shape. I just don't see them downgrading to a more boxy Delta-3/Type 094 style hump at this stage. This sorta explains why it is projected to carry just 12 tubes vs 16. The tubes will be large diameter.
 
Canister Length is 11m -13m with diameter of 2.4m
Reasonable dimensions IMO
With 13 meter length it's possible to have streamlined hull given that SSBN beam is around 13 to 13.5 Meters..... this missile is massive....... Second stage alone is 10 Tones, First 50 Tonnes, third will be 3 to 5 tonnes...... whole missile would be around 63 to 65 Tonnes give or take.

If the missile is going to be concealed in a streamlined hull without any hump than this SSBN is going to be a massive beast...... In all likelihood as long as Borie-A or Columbia class with 16 SLBM configuration or 150 to 160 meter with 12 SLBM configuration.
 
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Dang, this thing is huge!

At 2.4m dia, it's thicker than the Trident-II D5, Bulava & even the M51. But I reckon that's because our solid-fuel tech isn't yet at par with the West or Russia's latest. The older R-39 (which Bulava replaced) had a similar diameter.
Fully compatible with world standard, booster stage with Isp > 254s for land version and 266s for SLBM , and upper stage with Isp 273s HTPB+AP+AL with binder. French got solid fuel in 268s range. My assumption is that payload will be around 4-4.5ton with a very conservative estimate. 10 mirv each weighing ~ 300-370kg plus countermeasure around 450kg, the liquid fuel stage is reliable & efficient now.
 
Fully compatible with world standard, booster stage with Isp > 254s for land version and 266s for SLBM , and upper stage with Isp 273s HTPB+AP+AL with binder. French got solid fuel in 268s range. My assumption is that payload will be around 4-4.5ton with a very conservative estimate. 10 mirv each weighing ~ 300-370kg plus countermeasure around 450kg, the liquid fuel stage is reliable & efficient now.
Liquid fueled third stage ?
 
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The new leaked pics show S5 without hump. What do you make of it? And with such a huge missile, I reckon the range even with 3 MIRV is well beyond 5,000 km!
The range figures we quote is a Govt mandate of use case range. It does not reflect the launch vehicles capacity. Actual LV is far more robust.
Quite easy to understand, ASAT test they said although was done at ~ 300km altitude, 284km, the article can do upto 1000km altitude. That article is 2 stages of crmc joined together plus the kv on top.
Now imagine what a rocket motor way bigger than that is capable of. In any case range is not the primary concern, the amount of payload mass is what matters which restricts the design choice. Normal ballistic science. Those different items we see above, gas bottles, propellant tank bottles etc are fitted inside the top stage that carry the coolant and liquid fuel etc. Numerous improvement done to reduce weight , now composite gas bottles are used.
 
This streamlined hull SSBN will most likely carry the K-6 SLBM in the distant future
Why would SLBM have that many variants made when it is a 2nd strike option weapon? The more variant you make, the more complex it becomes when you consider fitment within a sub and launch from underwater. The missile itself traverses from silo canister to water medium then again transition from there to atmosphere air condition so the boundary interaction is complex. Hence SLBM is unlikely to diversify like the land variants which has more design choice freedom (non uniform airframe, aerodynamic less stringent).
Maybe its telling that from a 1400mm dia IRBM class to 2400mm dia class ICBM mirv graduation was conscious design choice. Next iteration could be miniaturised HGVs that can be placed under a fairing to keep streamline airframe for underwater launch.
 
Why would SLBM have that many variants made when it is a 2nd strike option weapon? The more variant you make, the more complex it becomes when you consider fitment within a sub and launch from underwater. The missile itself traverses from silo canister to water medium then again transition from there to atmosphere air condition so the boundary interaction is complex. Hence SLBM is unlikely to diversify like the land variants which has more design choice freedom (non uniform airframe, aerodynamic less stringent).
Maybe its telling that from a 1400mm dia IRBM class to 2400mm dia class ICBM mirv graduation was conscious design choice. Next iteration could be miniaturised HGVs that can be placed under a fairing to keep streamline airframe for underwater launch.
So this is effectively the K6 then? I recall reading somewhere that K5 would only be an ER version of K4 with largely the same dimensions. This test booster is 2X dia which would better fit the known specs of K6.

1762849593550.jpeg
 
So this is effectively the K6 then? I recall reading somewhere that K5 would only be an ER version of K4 with largely the same dimensions. This test booster is 2X dia which would better fit the known specs of K6.

View attachment 47710
All the tech bases mentioned above are realised and applied in K5 itself, aerospike to extendible nozzle also notice the interstage pyro bolt based stage separation mechanism very short compared to the interstage used in land systems. So if you make a 2.4m dia article fit inside the sub, it is unlikely to develop a slimmer new version again. Much better to decrease stage length than change the diameter which can be done only if the solid propellant is even more powerful. But solid fuels have hit the upper circuit in terms of Isp now, can not be meaningfully increased more. Either use liquid fuel or a hybrid motor and both are tricky. Sarmat is heavy for that reason, very high thrust delivered but extremely complex to make & maintain + failure prone.

Previously we all thought K5 would be submerged version of A5. Evidently we went with a higher dia crmc to cater for size restriction applicable to slbm, and if you are making a higher dia more powerful stage why not use the same for sat launcher booster stages aka VEDA V1C & V2C. The 3rd stage V3C is same as A5 3rd stage mirv bus design. So essentially veda is like k5 merged with A5 upper stage.
 
All the tech bases mentioned above are realised and applied in K5 itself, aerospike to extendible nozzle also notice the interstage pyro bolt based stage separation mechanism very short compared to the interstage used in land systems. So if you make a 2.4m dia article fit inside the sub, it is unlikely to develop a slimmer new version again. Much better to decrease stage length than change the diameter which can be done only if the solid propellant is even more powerful. But solid fuels have hit the upper circuit in terms of Isp now, can not be meaningfully increased more. Either use liquid fuel or a hybrid motor and both are tricky. Sarmat is heavy for that reason, very high thrust delivered but extremely complex to make & maintain + failure prone.

Previously we all thought K5 would be submerged version of A5. Evidently we went with a higher dia crmc to cater for size restriction applicable to slbm, and if you are making a higher dia more powerful stage why not use the same for sat launcher booster stages aka VEDA V1C & V2C. The 3rd stage V3C is same as A5 3rd stage mirv bus design. So essentially veda is like k5 merged with A5 upper stage.
Believe it or not, Sandeep Unnithan in his piece on the P77 prog a couple of years back even alluded to a K8 slbm variant being in the works.
 
Canister Length is 11m -13m with diameter of 2.4m
Reasonable dimensions IMO
Even the current K 4 missile's Canister is 13 m long, and from what hydrodynamic models of S5 we have seen so far I very much doubt your numbers
k4 canister sets for future reference only (old pics)

View attachment 42511
View attachment 42512

Since KBE planned for the below long ago (2016-17), it sort of matches with deployment mechanism (end rings fitting) of K5.

View attachment 42513
 
Even the current K 4 missile's Canister is 13 m long, and from what hydrodynamic models of S5 we have seen so far I very much doubt your numbers
These numbers are just my thoughts, ofc I can be wrong
I used image pixels to calculate the length of canister (by taking canister Diameter as 2.4m)
Real diameter could be 2.45m or more. The image quality is not the best. (Length came out be around 11m~)
Taking in these variables, my guess is 13m length.
IRL it could be 12m or 13.5m.
 
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These numbers are just my thoughts, ofc I can be wrong
I used image pixels to calculate the length of canister (by taking canister Diameter as 2.4m)
Real diameter could be 2.45m or more. The image quality is not the best. (Length came out be around 11m~)
Taking in these variables, my guess is 13m length.
IRL it could be 12m or 13.5m.
The length is coming out wrong because of perspective warping, the picture of poster itself was taken from an angle and the image of the cannister in the poster already had a lot of perspective warping, so I would no fret too much over the dimensions right now.
as for the diameter you are right it could be 2.5 m because it's a cannister designed to hold a 2.4 m diameter missile so ofc it would be more wider
 
Could you post all the leaked images of SSBN models so far ? @RationalGuy ?
The most recent I've seen is the one you posted which doesn't have a hump.
Fully compatible with world standard, booster stage with Isp > 254s for land version and 266s for SLBM , and upper stage with Isp 273s HTPB+AP+AL with binder. French got solid fuel in 268s range. My assumption is that payload will be around 4-4.5ton with a very conservative estimate. 10 mirv each weighing ~ 300-370kg plus countermeasure around 450kg, the liquid fuel stage is reliable & efficient now.
My God thats 120 warheads per sub 🤯. The only critical piece of the puzzle is what is the yield of these warheads? Considering their weight and size they must be in the hundreds of kt. Of course, whether it is boosted fission or pure fusion will change the yield. I'd reckon they are indeed 250 kt hydrogen MIRVs.
 
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