Said for a long time that LCH's are not part of tankbuster role yet. That role is with the Rudras & Apaches & only those will be given a tankbuster mission. LCH role is to protect the Rudra when it is engaging because that is even more vital due to highly contested battlefield & stray danger from multiple threat aspect a heptr faces. Ground based shoulder launched shorad, machine guns , tank guns, sporadic short ad all are a challenge. To suppress that ground based threat you need a very agile support which is given by LCH due to being very agile & quick reaction. Rudras are much less agile, very intimidating but not very agile. It can fire the atgm from a stable position but as an escort will be quite behind the LCH.
India, UK sign £350 mn deal for Martlet. What are these Lightweight Multirole Missiles
In service with the British military since 2019, it is also known as the Martlet missile. Ukrainians have also deployed these missiles against Russian troops.theprint.in
For the Army, it can take out threats ranging from light armoured, wheeled and tracked vehicles to aerial platforms within a distance of 6 km.
It is designed for an urban environment
The UK and India in February agreed to expand collaboration on next-generation weapons with Thales and Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) signing a contract to deliver Laser Beam Riding MANPADs (LBRM), with an initial supply of High Velocity Missiles (STARStreak) and launchers to be delivered later this year.
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UK supplied 650 missiles to Ukraine at 162 million Pounds cost.
That means some 1400 missiles for Indian Army.
Tell me 1400 LLMs for half a billion dollar????
India inks £350-million deal with U.K. to buy missiles
New £350 million defence deal between India and UK, boosting business confidence and creating jobs in both countries.
I think this begining of new partnership..
Hindu article mentions those .
So far at least 4 sections test jigs of STAR has been released. From section 5 to section 2. Hopefully we see a test in future by early next year. They have probably done some unannounced limited test before.
Partnership???India inks £350-million deal with U.K. to buy missiles
New £350 million defence deal between India and UK, boosting business confidence and creating jobs in both countries.www.thehindu.com
I think this begining of new partnership..
Hindu article mentions those .
In the emergency imports of Igla Adani is assembling them in India atleast.
What are we getting here?
For fcuks sake, this is double the amount we have spent on VSHORADS development.
Seems the dynamic trial of NASM-SR to happen next time. Basically launch after the helo takes off the ship deck fully prepared. Usually in early phase all work is done on the ground because system is evolving, very unstable many things can go wrong. Any air launch system is very risky esp with rocket motor based payload. There are vibration during flight, so it generates static which means without precaution the article unintentionally can get ignited and suddenly fired or exploded. Very very risky affair. This is why you add the anti vibration mounts on helos and ships, so the payload is isolated from the vibration environment.
Although, i am against this deal. Considering UPLMG , HELINA etc.. but if you wanna view this deal, remove the defense pov.
From what I can understand of this and the overall tone of the visit and statement. This deal needs to be viewed from two trade deals.
1. India-UK FTA
2. INDIA-EFTA Trade deal.
This is not a defense deal from any angle. It's a political favor to keimer from what I can see. Now he can go to UK and talk about creating jobs. He is on backfoot at his home country.
Then comes EFTA part, they have pledged 100 billion dollars with 15 million? 1.5 million? ( Sorry for confusion) direct Jobs in india. " Only pledged, not guaranteed".
This seems to me like creating an optics and atmosphere for India-EU trade deal next. Defense and oil is always the easiest for any Indian govt when they need to purchase as a diplomacy, not defense per se.
We ask, but general public don't care. They are just happy that missiles will come and Pakistani will be thrashed. The concept of indigineous capability is slowly getting acknowledgement, but not at the scale that govt cant import weapons worth billions of dollars. Let alone 500millon.
So, yeah the deeper partnership,, the whole corporate armada of UK.. uni campus.. this definitely ain't a deal for defense prepared ness. As if few 1000s of such missiles will fulfill the demand of Indian Army.
And I bet, that if the opening up of missile development and production leads to adani-TATA-HAL kind of screwdriver giri.. the govt will get cornered. There's enough angst with sham of a Harop white labelling within the supporters. ( I understand the starting point, need to get experience, but haven't heard about big investments in indigineous system R&D initiatives from scratch, this would be the perfect time as op sindoor has brought focus to them. But danger lies too, that they go back to old days of kirana industry. So, even if Europeans throw some money at the UPA corterie.. a chunk of govt supporters themselves will call it out. ( I wonder then, if opposition will favor it then) .
L&T seems better cause of naval domain, altho i haven't read their projects in detail.
* Sorry for the rant, I am indeed disheartened by lack of substantial investment in R&D by corporate houses of India. Even at such a crucial juncture when we need our engineers and scientists to get deep tech knowledge .
But to sum up, this is a trade deal. Let's see what happens next. Just hoping it won't kill already on matters ..UPLMG, Nagastra, HELina..
If political Jizya is want UK wanted, buy something for which we have no alternative.
We could have bought and refurbished the Albion class, or the early retirement C130Js.
It's like the Stryker debate again. If we have to pay political Jizya to USA, buy additional MH60R, P8I, Chinooks, something which we need and we don't have alternatives to.
They chose convience I believe. The facility is already running and active. Meaning, supply chain are robust due to Ukraine supplies. It gives optics for keimer while you get a missile without risking lengthy negotiations on all sort of stuff.
The real " partnership" needs to be on lookout for. Specially in civil domain.
The university opening up, i wonder if they are liberal arts heavy, and if so.. you know the propaganda. If it's STEM, good.
Then, one important thing to note is that, in India-EFTA pact.. the EFTA companies are to be given access to indian government contracts of certain threshold for civil infrastructure in phased manner.. the point I am on look out for is, if it will be considered as a direct investment ( shouldn't be).. this concept is mentioned in the pact.. but it's full interpretation and explanation for either side is not out yet.
Also, be in look out for regulatory reforms in finance and telecom sector. Cause these two are key areas of focus in pact.
It's been stressed out already, let me do it again. Geopolitics is intensifying
. Multipolar world is becoming a reality. And Jaishankar personally have invested a lot in europe since 2020. To wean them off china which is a mammoth of a task. Probably need to show them a different kind of trade environment than China. USA is a pole. China is a pole. Arab nations as one( divided but still, the ummah). Neither EU or India can become a pole on their own , for next 15 years ( for new india) atleast. So, you may see some convergence, depending on our libbies and their tradition of badmouthing indians, US after Trump, reforms in judicial ( key demand of foreign investors) etc..
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Again, I am against imports of any system that we can make on our own with sufficient funds and autonomy given to DRDO, even with its standard in timelines adherence.
Missile imports remain very painfull for me to hear of. One area, we were supposed to be proud of home grown tech for.
Missile imports remain very painfull for me to hear of. One area, we were supposed to be proud of home grown tech for.
We already operate many UK made weapon systems , and those are also part of trade not separate underground deals. Plenty of new and improved systems come for trials and proof firing every now and then. The ex NSG commando guy who now looks after this affair via deputation role at the PXE range also said the same once.
I didn't comment on our side of supply chain and maintanence. But the other side.
Neither did I say it's about backroom deals or something..
I don't know which part of my comment suggested that. I will recheck.
Yup. I think when I said trade, icouldnt convey my overall point.
1. Big one being that keimer needs jobs. Immediate results. ( Lots of pressure back in UK) .
2. Mention of Trade aspect, because for india, this wasn't about defense needs as first factor.
a) first factor= cost
b) Existing supply chains with little delays ( backlog)
c) doesn't derail indian systems by diverting funds
d) still cover a gap for IA. and other factors.
e) Does not need lengthy negotiating period and agreements. ( which is prerequisite for strategic assets)
After that, Few systems will qualify i believe. StarStreak is already with BDL afaik.
Note: When I say be in the lookout for such and such.. I hope you read them not as me applauding govt and waiting like a fan boy.
But I meant, to be on lookout for as a hawk. The pact is high risk, high reward. And reforms are the backbone for Indian industry to absorb the investments.
Given the nature of Beauracrats.. govt civil contracts being involved, we should be prudent. But at the same time, I hope that judgement is based on verified facts and taking in account the full nature of development. Not being selective and influenced or manipulated by " SM experts from foreign".
Lines are blurring bw anti BJP campaign and anti india campaign. We only have our own intelligence and judgement to fall back on.
Nothing like that , system like Martlet plus the beamriders missiles local production have been eyed by our armed forces for a long time. But as we know, Europeans do not want to give new stuff easily or quickly, and certainly in some cases license mfg locally only when its old vintage that is being phased out from their inventory. So this trade deal was an opportunity in reset of some of those practice. Hence here we are able to buy a relatively newer weapon system under a new more favourable trade related agreement/market access that otherwise would not be available at this point of time in a way our govt wanted. This is a positive side for sure. It is also the result of past few years negotiations which facilitate some of Thales or MBDA vintage systems being co-produced in the country already & in near future.I didn't comment on our side of supply chain and maintanence. But the other side.
Neither did I say it's about backroom deals or something..
I don't know which part of my comment suggested that. I will recheck.
So the eagerness to buy is more from our side than the outlook of us having to pay unnecessary money for something we did not want that much aka where the term Jijya is more applicable. This new trade agreement help make the deal much easier than having to pass the file via special clearance granted to the Indian HC mission in UK after a lot of diplomatic lobbying. That happens a lot esp with critical items from Germany & the Swiss. You can float global tenders via the embassy there to respective oems & get no objection clearance by backchannel lobbying. That is much more time consuming.
I did not know this aspect. I was of the opinion that DRDO was already in later stages of development in regards to missile systems that fulfils the role LMM can play for IA. It's not multirole, but several individual systems as a family were there.
Does LMM deploy and new tech that India lacks both in access or potential to develop in given timeline .
Complemented by the recent inauguration of Mumbai terminal, the discourse and meeting focused on economy and trade.. I did not think that defense preparedness was the priority of this meeting. Hence, no make in India. Lower number of acquisition. Specially on the heels of reports staying opening up missile sector to pvt industry.
If the IA wanted LBMR manpads so much, they could've chosen RBS-70NG years ago, instead of getting Starstreak through a back-channel deal. Tech wise, LMM's guidance tech is derived from SS.
So buying 2 comparable missile systems from the same vendor (Thales) makes no sense, especially since neither was chosen through a competitive bidding process.
I don't see any tech/economic merits either in robbing Peter (Saab) to pay Paul (Thales UK). They are part of the same trade bloc. Btw, Saab already makes Carl Gustaf in India.
The trade deal probably stands on its own merit. The UK had been desperate for FTA with India since Brexit. India needed to find new markets for its exports after the US imposed higher tarrifs. It's not standard practice for countries to mix defence and trade.
Sadly, the GoI doesn't appear to have changed its policy of leveraging defence deals for geopolitical/trade benefits.
Well arms lobby is huge in western countries. Even climate lobby, Islamist lobby will dwarf compared to them.
Only caveat is that domestic system have taken backseat in past. If same is repeated with Helina, UPLMG-3, VSHORADS, then it's a massive compromise cum betrayal to govts own agenda. ( How much time to judge? Year, two years? Five for mass deployment? )
Deal is yet to be done. Without our CCS clearing there wont be any deal. This is possibly an MoU like agreement to move forward.
From Joint Statement:
I was expecting LBRM before this.
Source
From Joint Statement:
I was expecting LBRM before this.
Source
