General News, Questions And Discussions - Indian Navy

That's entering a more risky and heavily defended enemy home territory. In blockading we will still be operating away from SCS still in IOR.

If you wanna threaten chinese navy SCS then better option is to put missiles like LRASHM in Anadamar Nicobar islands.

Though we can also put it in our SSGN which will still remain close to IOR and not venture too much inside SCS.

But chinese can do the same to our navy with their SSN, SSGN and putting hypersonic anti ship missiles on them.

So we are opening new front, but its not as impacting, plus we are equally at risk.

The idea of blockade is causing much more damage to china.

Not equal front where both countries will use SSGN and SSN's to lob hypersonic anti ship missiles at each other's navy

In this case, opening naval front doesn't make sense.

When it comes to Chinese waging war from entire western and northern border of India ( not including bangla and Myanmar for now).. worrying about Chinese missiles coming from SSNs on our south should hardly be a concern. Won't they lob those missiles from land and air anyways? Missiles with range targetting mainland too.
When it comes to protecting our northeast.. do you really think, that hesitating about opening a riskier naval strategy is prudent?

It's like a ( fortunately) hypothetical scenario Lal Bahadur Shastri restraining Indian army on opening front on IB, when pak invaded from J&K front.

And I am not talking about threating PLAN in SCS.. but threatening China on its eastern front. If they lob hypersonics towards let's say UP industrial corridor from northern front, or start penetrating with aim to cut the chicken neck.. it becomes imperative for our navy to destroy their eastern assets. We certainly need to be innovative to do that.

And underwater assets is the only feasible ( even with low probability) way to do it. No surface asset can even hope to reach there. Unmanned underwater assets will become the key force multiplier.

In the meantime.. the land based assets needs to be used speedily to nuteralise Pakistan ASAP. First objective will be to diminish the two front to maybe 1.5 ( severely weaken PA) or 1( weakened and isolated PA) front.
 
do you really think, that hesitating about opening a riskier naval strategy is prudent?
And what purpose does it serve?
Its equally harmful to both countries, I'd say more harmful to us they will have more ssn and ssgn.



Unlike blockade where risks and costs are worth it due to damage potential to china, acting as a potential deterrence to discourage china from expanding the land conflict.







And I am not talking about threating PLAN in SCS.. but threatening China on its eastern front. If they lob hypersonics towards let's say UP industrial corridor from northern front, or start penetrating with aim to cut the chicken neck.. it becomes imperative for our navy to destroy their eastern assets
Eastern assets are not equivalent to UP corridor.
Target their eastern assets and delhi will be targeted in retaliation.

Targeting eastern assets make sense if they target delhi etc first.

Again does not provide significant deterrence to us.


Its more of us acting like suicidal country, willing to hurt yourself equally or more in an attempt to hurt china.
That's not how deterrence works.
 
Against PLAN, a much bigger foe, our naval strategy shifts from sea control to sea denial. This is the reason why GoI is prioritizing the P77 SSN+ 2 SSK programs over a nuke-powered IAC-3/Vikrant follow-on (at least kicking the can further down the road). Our SSK fleet is ancient, barring the 6 Kalveri class boats. Also, the Arihants will need SSN escort while on deterrent patrols in the IOR, especially in the 2030s.

As regards carrier plans, our first priority would be to replace the Vikramaditya in the 2040s. As far as I can tell, the nuke-powered carrier might only be cleared in the mid to late 2030s. Given budget constraints, the IN will probably have to choose between the 4 LHDs and Vikrant follow-on in the near term. INS Jalashwa is pretty much on her last legs and it could well be that the IN might settle for 2+2 LHD (in batches). That could be why the LHD is now projected as a 30,000t light carrier capable of drone ops. Imo, the main focus seems to be boosting the surface fleet to 174 and LRMP/ASW/space-based ISR for the short to medium term.

That's probably why the IN is investing in suprport assets like Fleet Support Ships, MCMV and MQ-9B/P-8I over other priorities.
 
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And what purpose does it serve?
Its equally harmful to both countries, I'd say more harmful to us they will have more ssn and ssgn.



Unlike blockade where risks and costs are worth it due to damage potential to china, acting as a potential deterrence to discourage china from expanding the land conflict.








Eastern assets are not equivalent to UP corridor.
Target their eastern assets and delhi will be targeted in retaliation.

Targeting eastern assets make sense if they target delhi etc first.

Again does not provide significant deterrence to us.


Its more of us acting like suicidal country, willing to hurt yourself equally or more in an attempt to hurt china.
That's not how deterrence works.

Deterrence as a concept arises from the idea of destruction. Deterrence is meant against a superior enemy. And deterrence comes from lethality.
The whole concept of deterrence through nuclear weapons comes from MAD aspect.

The strategy of blocking malacca strait in Chinese invasion has been there for decades in military discourse on both sides. It's a folly to think that, if Chinese invaded, they won't do it without sufficient readiness by PLA, PLAF, PLAN to push back or bypass the blockade. You can even expect a pre-emptive attempt to block IN out of the strait too. Then there's increasing connectivity development through eurasian, pak ports etc.. Just relying on strategy of blocking will not deter Chinese anyhow. The blockade is an important part of deterrence, but only in two cases: we are powerfull enough to sustain it for months. Or its an allied initiative. Both cases are different from near future. Atleast infeasible untill late 2040s if everything goes right.

Is there some other kind of " war" you envision? China is unlikely to invade on North & northeastern border without activating Pakistan. That itself puts Indias sovereignty and population at stake. Threat towards Delhi = That's why we invest in (Sudarshan Chakra) layered AD.
And please remember, India is not just delhi. Even the thought that it's okay to give up on any other party of India as long as delhi is not attacked, is cowardice and a betrayal to the people.

Other than that, I don't know what kind of scenario you're envisioning where a war doesn't put out sovereignty at stake.
A scenario of small localised battle/ skirmish/ war will hardly be impacted by the blockade. A land or air based hypersonic cruise missile and potent rocket force can do the job of deterrence that you envision from a blockade, notwithstanding the fact that even a blockade will escalate the clash between navies risking our southern parts anyway.
As for the risk & reward part of the escalation ladder. We do have Aircraft carriers for that even now. An extra aircraft carrier at current juncture ( 2025-2040) will not provide any extra layer to that escalation ladder.
The next part comes from submarines and underwater doctrine.

Note: The nuclear deterrence is there but that's the last ladder. After exhausting the conventional ladders. We need more strength in conventional ladder.
Note 2: I rearticulated my message as previous one was coming off as more confrontational.
 
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Somehow perfectly shows the extended borders of the Indian Navy's areas of responsibility.

Credit on pic.
 
With the recent DAC approval, future projects for IN look something like this:

#Future Projects:
•RFP: (17)
1. Project 75I class SSK = 06
2.Next Generation Corvette = 08
3.Additional Kalvari class SSK = 03

•AoN: (61)
1. P-17B class FFG = 07
2. Next Generation Survey Vessels = 05
3. Next Generation MPV = 02
4. New Water Jet Fast Attack Craft = 31
5. Fast Interceptor Craft-I = 120
6. Mine Counter Measure Vessels = 12
7. LHD class = 04

•RFI: (07)
1. High Speed Landing Crafts = 06
2. National Hospital Ship = 01

The number of AoN accorded for the RFI floated are significantly higher for the IN.
 
Just curious about whether this 4 nos LPD got clearance due to already higher maturity in project finalisation ie the DBMRH also progressed somewhat so the platform and the air assets in terms of development are at an advanced stage of finalisation?

Compared to a separate case, say the repeat IAC order, there you got import issue aka high cost , tiny import batch, still no clearance of TEDBF, the repeat IAC order died down a silent death, IAC1 is sporting Mig29k in the meantime. So overall as project development status , a repeat carrier obviously got shelved in favour of completing other pending projects for the navy front?

Along with this, is Navy getting any share of the emergency procurement , other than MRSAM, ALWT and Brahmos? I can guess some Israeli missiles maybe, but overall it looks like very small areas where they are going to induct some new system (more ciws/antidrone laser) or initiate case for something unique, like fast attack craft but in anti drone specific duty/configuration (mount Igla/short range ad/machine gun or ciws like something).
 
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Just curious about whether this 4 nos LPD got clearance due to already higher maturity in project finalisation ie the DBMRH also progressed somewhat so the platform and the air assets in terms of development are at an advanced stage of finalisation?

Compared to a separate case, say the repeat IAC order, there you got import issue aka high cost , tiny import batch, still no clearance of TEDBF, the repeat IAC order died down a silent death, IAC1 is sporting Mig29k in the meantime. So overall as project development status , a repeat carrier obviously got shelved in favour of completing other pending projects for the navy front?

Along with this, is Navy getting any share of the emergency procurement , other than MRSAM, ALWT and Brahmos? I can guess some Israeli missiles maybe, but overall it looks like very small areas where they are going to induct some new system (more ciws/antidrone laser) or initiate case for something unique, like fast attack craft but in anti drone specific duty/configuration (mount Igla/short range ad/machine gun or ciws like something).

Regarding Navy, there ain't a lot of stuff you can buy in 300 crores in Naval domain.

Coming to Naval projects, I would personally like to see the 44,000 crore MCMV project signed, the P17B signed and maybe a follow on for MH60Rs. And then LPDs.... before we go for IAC1 follow on.

Maybe even buying more SSKs before that IAC follow on
 
Regarding Navy, there ain't a lot of stuff you can buy in 300 crores in Naval domain.

Coming to Naval projects, I would personally like to see the 44,000 crore MCMV project signed, the P17B signed and maybe a follow on for MH60Rs. And then LPDs.... before we go for IAC1 follow on.

Maybe even buying more SSKs before that IAC follow on
Honestly would like to see more ASW/ASuW helos , at least one for each major warship. + maybe looking into Fixed Wing AEW off carriers
 
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IN had released an RFI for 06 High Speed Landing Craft way back in 2017. Strangely, this was never accorded AoN.
 
Regarding Navy, there ain't a lot of stuff you can buy in 300 crores in Naval domain.
Could have allocated extra amount for emergency buy. Anyway in this current batch there is largest portion for the IN. I was thinking about getting some other anti ship weapon either from Rus or other sources, maybe some more kalibr, shipborne dew if any available, some ucav that are armed and can operate either from shore or IAC like deck (unlikely) etc. They are way too much fixated on single Brahmos set of 8 / 16.
 
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Could have allocated extra amount for emergency buy. Anyway in this current batch there is largest portion for the IN. I was thinking about getting some other anti ship weapon either from Rus or other sources, maybe some more kalibr, shipborne dew if any available, some ucav that are armed and can operate either from shore or IAC like deck (unlikely) etc. They are way too much fixated on single Brahmos set of 8 / 16.
Can't navy work with drdo on developing a stobar HALE drone for awacs role for future.
Not as good as full fledged carrier awacs like E2 Hawkeye, but better than Heli based awacs even if radar is same as heli based awacs( though a larger more powerful radar should be possible).

Kinda like this but for STOBAR carrier.