Dassault Rafale - Updates and Discussion

[Optimist]

Give it up sunshine. The Rafale is 160 times slower. They had to do a separate stand alone, display, computer and optical run for the TALIOS. Something you don't need to concern yourself with. You are running Litening pods, that will work on the slow system.

F5 might come 2040, but it won't be able to be back fitted to the F3/4.

Notice how no one is talking about F4 now? They gutted it to the point that it's not worth talking about. It's not even new lipstick on the pig.

Of course you don't see any difference to a F-35. I wouldn't expect you to see the difference between black and white

 

[Parthu]

Well sir imo if we can make 4.5 gen mothership utilize datalink through sats or some other means to communicate with CCA over a large distance say 600-700 km at least maybe it would be fine as BVRM of that range is quite frankly unlikely to come anytime soon. America piloted UAV in Afghanistan with controller sitting in Nevada so real time long distance comms is a possibility but idk if India can do that with our current capability.

The concept behind CCAs is manned-unmanned teaming, where the drones assist & protect the manned aircraft in its mission by going into risky threat areas first, acting as bait, or otherwise sacrificing themselves to let the mothership survive.

If you want the mothership to be 700 kms away, then it's no longer part of the battlespace. It doesn't matter at that point if the mothership is a 4.5G fighter or a Netra AEW or even a repurposed Il-76.

But it would mean that your frontline tactical airpower is exclusively unmanned. Without a manned aircraft taking decisions on the fly, the effectiveness of the unmanned systems will reduce considerably as Long-distance/NLOS communication can be interfered with in myriad ways, that's not even counting the lag in such comms which might be okay for an MQ-9 operating in secured airspace but a hindrance for drones that have to quickly act against aerial & ground threats as soon as they emerge.

Only way to circumvent all this would be to make our CCAs completely autonomous - where they act on their own instead of taking instructions from the mothership - but that brings technical & monetary challenges of its own. What we would have otherwise inducted in 5 years would now take 15 years.

In the meantime if the enemy fields a LO/VLO fighter alongside their CCAs at the frontline, they will hold every advantage against our unmanned-only airpower.

 

[Optimist]

This is needed soon, or it may be better with sth korea or japan/uk. or the gods forbid..F-35

 

[suryakiran]

This is needed soon, or it may be better with sth korea or japan/uk. or the gods forbid..F-35

The reluctance on Indian part is less the plane, more the seller. If the F-35 were offered by the Russians you can place a bet that it would have been part of the IAF by now or atleast in advance stages of procurement.

No Indian official wants to be wedded to the American government.

 

[Optimist]

The reluctance on Indian part is less the plane, more the seller. If the F-35 were offered by the Russians you can place a bet that it would have been part of the IAF by now or atleast in advance stages of procurement.

No Indian official wants to be wedded to the American government.

I gave options..I don't make fighter aircraft and don't have a barrow to push. But 20 years is too late.
Given the close relationship with Russia, as well as the S-400, there would be other limitations. Pakistan couldn't use their F-16 against India.
Trump's recent F-35 offer would have to go through congress. It's not 100% that it would go through. The F-15ex would, but that's not 5th gen.

Ummmmm do you want to have a look at the US platforms you already have? It's a bit late for a divorce.

 

[suryakiran]

I gave options..I don't make fighter aircraft and don't have a barrow to push. But 20 years is too late.
Given the close relationship with Russia, as well as the S-400, there would be other limitations. Pakistan couldn't use their F-16 against India.
Trump's recent F-35 offer would have to go through congress. It's not 100% that it would go through. The F-15ex would, but that's not 5th gen.

Ummmmm do you want to have a look at the US platforms you already have? It's a bit late for a divorce.

Like most Americans, you fail to understand the differentiation in what we buy and what we dont buy. Its an American problem, not your fault.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Like most Americans, you fail to understand the differentiation in what we buy and what we dont buy. Its an American problem, not your fault.

He is Oz not Murican Though the point still remain valid

 

[_Anonymous_]

I gave options..I don't make fighter aircraft and don't have a barrow to push. But 20 years is too late.
Given the close relationship with Russia, as well as the S-400, there would be other limitations. Pakistan couldn't use their F-16 against India.
Trump's recent F-35 offer would have to go through congress. It's not 100% that it would go through. The F-15ex would, but that's not 5th gen.

Ummmmm do you want to have a look at the US platforms you already have? It's a bit late for a divorce.

Yo pops ! As usual your analysis is all over the place much like you. Mustn't believe all you read on the Lowy website you know or spend much time hanging out with sweetie online cheering for US especially LM made products. Leads to brain damage. Sweetie may be getting paid for playing the cheer leader for all you know , Ja ? @Innominate

Ask yourself what's in it for you ?

I could leave you die wondering like the others have but what the hell , you're an old pal . All those platforms we got aren't front line platforms but supporting platforms unless you think the P-8i or the Apaches are front line stuff .

 

[randomradio]

Give it up sunshine. The Rafale is 160 times slower. They had to do a separate stand alone, display, computer and optical run for the TALIOS. Something you don't need to concern yourself with. You are running Litening pods, that will work on the slow system.

F5 might come 2040, but it won't be able to be back fitted to the F3/4.

Notice how no one is talking about F4 now? They gutted it to the point that it's not worth talking about. It's not even new lipstick on the pig.

Of course you don't see any difference to a F-35. I wouldn't expect you to see the difference between black and white

So you're saying the 1760 doesn't exist and are dismissing reality?

 

[randomradio]

Well sir imo if we can make 4.5 gen mothership utilize datalink through sats or some other means to communicate with CCA over a large distance say 600-700 km at least maybe it would be fine as BVRM of that range is quite frankly unlikely to come anytime soon. America piloted UAV in Afghanistan with controller sitting in Nevada so real time long distance comms is a possibility but idk if India can do that with our current capability.

We have two programs for now, one is as you say, a long range autonomous UCAV, this is not CCA.

The other is a CCA program with small expendable drones like the Abhimanyu. It will weigh around 200-400 kg and each version will carry different payloads for different effects, like decoy, EW, kamikaze, and recce.

The IAF is yet to decide if they want larger non-expendable CCAs that will carry weapons. We also do not know how sophisticated these non-expendable CCAs will be. They could be in the CATS Warrior class (TE, 8 kN total) or the upcoming American CCAs (SE, ~17+ kN). Or even highly sophisticated LCA/Jaguar class CCAs in SE and TE versions, w/wo afterburners, that can act with a fighter or autonomously. Or a mix.

It's also unclear if these non-expendable CCAs will be introduced with LCA Mk2 and MKI MLU or with AMCA. But they are likely to meet AMCA's timeline.

India can do what the US controller did, expect we don't have indigenous drones yet. Tapas was supposed to give us Reaper-class networking and surveillance capabilities. Now Archer-NG will.

 

[screambowl]

Any possibility to get an indigenous MMC onborad Rafale, in case source codes are not provided? Of course Radar and Engine will not be known but the integration of indigenous system can take place.

 

[Optimist]

So you're saying the 1760 doesn't exist and are dismissing reality?

I've said before Rafal is at its core, an analog system from the 80's. Putting a couple of digital wires for 1760 doesn't change the choke points.

 

[screambowl]

This is very ridiculous that fight against terrorism has become a way to gauge aircrafts even when India has hit the capital of Pakistan which is the origin of terrorism. Where is the whole IQ gone? World is literally pushing India to disintegrate Pakistan it seems.

 

[Lolwa]

We have two programs for now, one is as you say, a long range autonomous UCAV, this is not CCA.

The other is a CCA program with small expendable drones like the Abhimanyu. It will weigh around 200-400 kg and each version will carry different payloads for different effects, like decoy, EW, kamikaze, and recce.

The IAF is yet to decide if they want larger non-expendable CCAs that will carry weapons. We also do not know how sophisticated these non-expendable CCAs will be. They could be in the CATS Warrior class (TE, 8 kN engine) or the upcoming American CCAs (SE, ~17+ kN). Or even highly sophisticated LCA/Jaguar class CCAs in SE and TE versions, w/wo afterburners, that can act with a fighter or autonomously. Or a mix.

It's also unclear if these non-expendable CCAs will be introduced with LCA Mk2 and MKI MLU or with AMCA. But they are likely to meet AMCA's timeline.

India can do what the US controller did, expect we don't have indigenous drones yet. Tapas was supposed to give us Reaper-class networking and surveillance capabilities. Now Archer-NG will.

Why aren't we getting hands on the Geran/shahed 136 from the Russians. I know local and israelis options exist but still.

This is very ridiculous that fight against terrorism has become a way to gauge aircrafts even when India has hit the capital of Pakistan which is the origin of terrorism. Where is the whole IQ gone? World is literally pushing India to disintegrate Pakistan it seems.

Pakistan is a suicidal basketcase. Nobody wants to deal with them.

 

[Shan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1924754676458586422

Ah yes, I will definitely believe a Turkish social media channel. No bias at all. "Source: SCMP, Bulgarian Military "

 

[vstol Jockey]

DA did a blunder by not sharing the source codes to let us integrate our own weapons on Rafale. But this s**t about 3 Rafale being downed has found traction due to what is known as "First to Lie". Same thing happened in 2019 post balakote air combat. Pakistan tweeted that they have shot down one Mig-21 and 2 Su-30MKI and our own media splashed it all across the world that IAF has lost 3 ac. Once again PAF started the rumour that they have shot down 5 IAF jets of which 3 were Rafale. Once again some of our Media people made false and misleading tweets which gave credence to the first to lie narrative of Pakistan. What PAF shot down were decoys sent inside Pakistan and you all must have seen the pics of the Banshi drones debries in Pakistan. No one can help a nation when the doors of the fort are opened from inside.

 

[Shan]

DA did a blunder by not sharing the source codes to let us integrate our own weapons on Rafale. But this s**t about 3 Rafale being downed has found traction due to what is known as "First to Lie". Same thing happened in 2019 post balakote air combat. Pakistan tweeted that they have shot down one Mig-21 and 2 Su-30MKI and our own media splashed it all across the world that IAF has lost 3 ac. Once again PAF started the rumour that they have shot down 5 IAF jets of which 3 were Rafale. Once again some of our Media people made false and misleading tweets which gave credence to the first to lie narrative of Pakistan. What PAF shot down were decoys sent inside Pakistan and you all must have seen the pics of the Banshi drones debries in Pakistan. No one can help a nation when the doors of the fort are opened from inside.

they started this post 65. disinfo is their way of war. win in papers and loose in reality.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Once IAF comes out with the truth of 7th morning attack, Rafale stocks will hit sky.

 

[randomradio]

I've said before Rafal is at its core, an analog system from the 80's. Putting a couple of digital wires for 1760 doesn't change the choke points.

How is a digital data bus an analog system?

 

[randomradio]

Why aren't we getting hands on the Geran/shahed 136 from the Russians. I know local and israelis options exist but still.

We have our own drones like NRT's Sheshnaag that will succeed Harop/Harpy.