Pakistani Mirage III/5 from the 60s ventured 60 km inside Indian territory without being disturbed???
Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis
- Thread starter Parthu
- Start date
We literally don't have missiles with ranges more than the pl-15. The su-30,mig 29 and mirage have astra mk1 as the best missile in their inventory. We might have the r-27ER with 130km but that's it. And I don't think rafale was used in an air to air role.
The only plane that could have been used to counter pl-15 was not used in it's intended role. On top of that our AEWCS can't do passive targetting like the Pakistanis erieyes using datalink. They just had a superior kill chain.
On top of that they had the advantage of see first kill first because of our braindead RoE.
Most likely shotdown by our Akash SAMs and it kept gliding inside our airspace and crashed.
I was trying really hard to compare it to the rd-33 or rd-93 but they don't have the fan design like of the atar-09c. The rear section is similar for the rd-33 but the front section screams atar-09
A plane doing Mach 1 needs only 3 minutes to cover 60 KM. Not to mention even if shot debris will fall far from point of interception due to pure inertia.
The frenchies at their forum say it's not theirs. Pic-oil has been very quiet in here what's your expertise opinion on the engine? French or Russian?
Why do we have to have more "range"? We have meteor thats good enough.
Both missiles, Pl-15 and meteor have very similar effective ranges.
According to PAF, we had 14 Rafale in the air. On top of that they are claiming Mig-29 kill around 10km inside Kashmir from LoC. It was not all 100+ km engagement.
Another BS made up by people who dont understand what they are talking about. Its impossible for Erieyes to guide Pl-15.
Bharat Karnad is saying the erieyes guided the pl-15. There's no other way the rafale could have been locked on otherwise.
LRSOW is not just in the air domain apparently, the LR-AShM project itself is under the overall LRSOW program called as Project LR.
So its likely be the standoff systems complement each other across various given range boundary, that is Brahmos NG ramjet cruise is complemented by Rudram 2 aeroballistic in 300km domain (plus LRGR-120 and LRGR-300), Brahmos ER cruise by Rudram 3 in the 500-550km domain ( plus Pralay), and the upcoming R4 to complement the Brahmos LR in the 800km range domain.
Anything over that kind of range need subsonic and ballistic options , hence ITCM/LRLACM and BM-04 in the 1000km and more range domain. Scramjet version hypersonic within lower altitude will further add to it , as well as the air launched versions of ITCM and HCM.
edit
( probably not called domain, rather range circle lol )
He is a certified noob in military technology. He is the last person we should be looking up for ideas. He hates the rafale and the whole deal. Not long back he claimed our C-17 crashed while confusing it with C-130J
Of course there are. We don't know enough about the engagement.
I think India did not have entire kill chain in this air war. The spotter, shooter and guiding piece were missing. Basically, the entire strike package was not expecting an air to air combat. No AWACS was present in the air space at the time of engagement. No EW resources were present too.
According the PAF, Erieyes AWACS is near the afghanistan border. Meaning, it's already 250-300 kilometers away from the IB/LoC, and they guide the missile 100 kilometers inside Indian territory? They can't even surveil that far, let alone track or guide.
This is after overlooking the impossible corporative engagement claims.
The erieyes have a range of 450km. So they can definitely look atleast 100km inside our airspace.
Its not completely out of question.. Erieye 2000 has a range of 450 KM. If PL-15 has a no escape zone of even 30 KM, it is very much possible to guide it to the point where it goes pitbull...
There is another issue. For some strange reason, IAF is not deploying dedicated EW platforms to degrade PAF AWACS performance.... Its a lesson missing since 2019.
No it doesnt. There physical and power limitations for a platform like that. Also, PAF do not operate Erieye ER (GlobalEye) used on Bombardier Global 6000. Only our Phalcon has that kind of AWACS range in this subcontinent. Saab 2000 is a small aircraft with limited power and space.
Even the brochure claim is detection range of 350 km in a dense hostile electronic warfare environment. You have to remember thats just detection.
Swedish AEW&C talking with Chinese BVRs could just be Pakistani propaganda.
Did you see my post in the Indo-China war thread? There is some chatter about BeiDou guiding PAF fired PL-15s. Anyways, more details will come out in due time.
Karnad is a bit delusional I agree but it seems like the j-10's might have been integrated with pakistani link 17.
I don't think there might have been satellite targetting. Those seem future plans to be implemented by the plaaf.
Let's see.
Its a question of orientation. ERIEYE has limited aft and forward sector range, but its board side range is pretty high. Unlike Phalcon, its coverage is not uniform and you have to orient the platform to get the maximum advantage of its range. I think PAF does that.
It's just an impossible level of sophistication for a nation like Pakistan to combine different origin systems like that. As far as I know, only the USAF was able to demonstrate such capabilities, and that too with the new next-generation datalink of the F-35, connecting their own systems over which they have full control.
The physical dimension is smaller also limited power generation because of the platform.
Even the brochure claim is detection range of 350 km in a dense hostile electronic warfare environment. You have to remember thats just detection.