The numbers they can move outside their home base is extremely limited. Their so called naval bases overseas are not big enough to threaten India.
By the time they become a threat, we will be talking about a period when the S-400 is obsolete.
The S-400 is Air Force’s answer to depleting fighter strength. It’s time to seal the deal
- Thread starter RATHORE
- Start date
The numbers they can move outside their home base is extremely limited. Their so called naval bases overseas are not big enough to threaten India.
By the time they become a threat, we will be talking about a period when the S-400 is obsolete.
US closely watching India’s plan to buy S-400 air defence system from Russia
US closely watching India’s plan to buy S-400 air defence system from Russia
In a carefully worded statement to Hindustan Times, the US state department did not directly say if the purchase of the weapon system by India was sanctionable.
INDIA Updated: Apr 01, 2018 07:17 IST
Yashwant Raj
Washington, Hindustan Times
A man holds the flags of India and the US while people take part in the 35th India Day Parade in New York on August 16, 2015. (REUTERS FILE)
The United States has said it has discussed with India a newly enacted American law that could potentially determine the purchase of the S-400 air defence missile system from Russia as sanctionable activity.
In a carefully worded statement to Hindustan Times, the US state department did not directly say if the purchase of the weapon system by India was sanctionable.
Refusing to confirm or deny discussions with the US on this issue, an Indian official in New Delhi said, “India’s relations with third countries (such as Russia) were not a part of discussions with the US and our defence requirements were determined by us only, independent of pressures and outside influence.”
India and Russia finalised an inter-governmental agreement on the S-400 Triumf air defence systems in October 2016 and are currently in advanced negotiations for at least five systems worth an estimated $4.5 billion. The negotiations have been stuck because of differences over the price, Indian officials said.
Reports have suggested India and Russia will try to sort out these differences during defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman’s upcoming visit to Moscow. Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy head of Russia’s federal service for military-technical cooperation, told reporters on Thursday Moscow hopes to ink the deal with New Delhi in 2018.
But the deal could set India and the US on a “collision course”, Cara Abercrombie, a US defence department official with expertise on military ties with India and who is currently with Carnegie, wrote in an op-ed in Axios, an online news publication, this week.
It could leave India open to sanctions under the Countering American Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA), which mandates the US administration to punish entities engaging “in a significant transaction with...the defense or intelligence sectors” of Russia.
The legislation was signed into law by President Donald Trump in August 2017 and went into effect in January. It seeks to punish Russia for “malign” activities in Ukraine and Syria and meddling in the 2016 US polls.
Abercrombie suggested a waiver from US Congress to allow India to go ahead with the deal in view of its security needs.
A US state department spokesperson said on Friday in response to a question on whether the S-400 deal could run into CAATSA trouble, “We have discussed CAATSA with the government of India, and the US intends to work with our partners to help them identify and avoid engaging in potentially sanctionable activity.”
The spokesperson added: “We are engaging with a range of countries to avert future defence acquisitions, and the secretary of state will take appropriate action when and if we determine sanctionable activity has occurred.”
At stake is also India’s long-standing defence relationship with Russia, something the Americans acknowledge as they try and wean India away from its ally of several decades.
“Approximately 60% of India’s defence inventory is Russian-made,” Abercrombie wrote in the op-ed, adding this was “a legacy of India’s Cold War-era relationship with the Soviet Union”.
She added, “Forcing India to abruptly cut off Russian supplies would create unacceptable risk to India’s self-defence. If forced to choose between a robust, well-equipped military and US goodwill, India would likely choose the former.”
After Russia and Turkey signed an $2.5-billion agreement last December for four batteries of S-400s, US officials threatened Ankara with sanctions under CAATSA. Turkey angrily brushed aside these threats.
Each S-400 surface-to-air missile system includes a radar and targeting equipment, multiple missile launchers and a command and control centre, and can detect and bring down drones, stealth aircraft, and ballistic and cruise missiles within a range of 400 km and up to 30 km.
The system can operate under conditions of intense enemy fire and electronic countermeasures. Its missiles can hit aerial targets at ranges up to 250 km and intercept ballistic missiles across a 60-km radius.
China was the first overseas customer for the S-400 and Russia recently began supplying the six systems ordered in 2014. Saudi Arabia is also in talks for the system but negotiations have been held up by differences over transfer of technology.
US closely watching India’s plan to buy S-400 air defence system from Russia
In a carefully worded statement to Hindustan Times, the US state department did not directly say if the purchase of the weapon system by India was sanctionable.
INDIA Updated: Apr 01, 2018 07:17 IST
Yashwant Raj
Washington, Hindustan Times
A man holds the flags of India and the US while people take part in the 35th India Day Parade in New York on August 16, 2015. (REUTERS FILE)
The United States has said it has discussed with India a newly enacted American law that could potentially determine the purchase of the S-400 air defence missile system from Russia as sanctionable activity.
In a carefully worded statement to Hindustan Times, the US state department did not directly say if the purchase of the weapon system by India was sanctionable.
Refusing to confirm or deny discussions with the US on this issue, an Indian official in New Delhi said, “India’s relations with third countries (such as Russia) were not a part of discussions with the US and our defence requirements were determined by us only, independent of pressures and outside influence.”
India and Russia finalised an inter-governmental agreement on the S-400 Triumf air defence systems in October 2016 and are currently in advanced negotiations for at least five systems worth an estimated $4.5 billion. The negotiations have been stuck because of differences over the price, Indian officials said.
Reports have suggested India and Russia will try to sort out these differences during defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman’s upcoming visit to Moscow. Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy head of Russia’s federal service for military-technical cooperation, told reporters on Thursday Moscow hopes to ink the deal with New Delhi in 2018.
But the deal could set India and the US on a “collision course”, Cara Abercrombie, a US defence department official with expertise on military ties with India and who is currently with Carnegie, wrote in an op-ed in Axios, an online news publication, this week.
It could leave India open to sanctions under the Countering American Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA), which mandates the US administration to punish entities engaging “in a significant transaction with...the defense or intelligence sectors” of Russia.
The legislation was signed into law by President Donald Trump in August 2017 and went into effect in January. It seeks to punish Russia for “malign” activities in Ukraine and Syria and meddling in the 2016 US polls.
Abercrombie suggested a waiver from US Congress to allow India to go ahead with the deal in view of its security needs.
A US state department spokesperson said on Friday in response to a question on whether the S-400 deal could run into CAATSA trouble, “We have discussed CAATSA with the government of India, and the US intends to work with our partners to help them identify and avoid engaging in potentially sanctionable activity.”
The spokesperson added: “We are engaging with a range of countries to avert future defence acquisitions, and the secretary of state will take appropriate action when and if we determine sanctionable activity has occurred.”
At stake is also India’s long-standing defence relationship with Russia, something the Americans acknowledge as they try and wean India away from its ally of several decades.
“Approximately 60% of India’s defence inventory is Russian-made,” Abercrombie wrote in the op-ed, adding this was “a legacy of India’s Cold War-era relationship with the Soviet Union”.
She added, “Forcing India to abruptly cut off Russian supplies would create unacceptable risk to India’s self-defence. If forced to choose between a robust, well-equipped military and US goodwill, India would likely choose the former.”
After Russia and Turkey signed an $2.5-billion agreement last December for four batteries of S-400s, US officials threatened Ankara with sanctions under CAATSA. Turkey angrily brushed aside these threats.
Each S-400 surface-to-air missile system includes a radar and targeting equipment, multiple missile launchers and a command and control centre, and can detect and bring down drones, stealth aircraft, and ballistic and cruise missiles within a range of 400 km and up to 30 km.
The system can operate under conditions of intense enemy fire and electronic countermeasures. Its missiles can hit aerial targets at ranges up to 250 km and intercept ballistic missiles across a 60-km radius.
China was the first overseas customer for the S-400 and Russia recently began supplying the six systems ordered in 2014. Saudi Arabia is also in talks for the system but negotiations have been held up by differences over transfer of technology.
There is something up with this deal. Turkey 4 regiments 2.5B, China 6 regiments around 3B.
But for India 5 regiments close to 6B. That like twice what others are paying. On top of that it seems india is only ordering 2 of the 4 missiles which are long ranged. So why is the price difference so much.
But for India 5 regiments close to 6B. That like twice what others are paying. On top of that it seems india is only ordering 2 of the 4 missiles which are long ranged. So why is the price difference so much.
Simple
Modi is West leaning hence he does not want to buy from Russia.
Putin does not want to sell to India led by West leaning Modi.
The talks on S-400s & FGFA will continue with no end... as China and Pakistan enjoy the show.
S-400 is not a missile but Missile system
The S-400 uses four missiles to fill its performance envelope: the very-long-range 40N6 (400 km), the long-range 48N6 (250 km), the medium-range 9M96E2 (120 km) and the short-range 9M96E (40 km).
Thus the type and nos of missiles might define the cost of the package, India more or less might be taking more 40N6 to thwart the Pakistani nuclear tipped Ballistic missile threat by taking them out in space, and also, maybe some 48N6 for taking down the same missiles at closer ranges. And some quantity of the other two missiles. Turkey has no nuclear threat and hence its purchased with be more on the medium range and long range missiles and less of VERY LONG RANGE, missiles.
This is my opinion
Modi might be west leaning, but for Russia, India is a big market for them and they would not give a crazy price to scare the Indians.
The S-400 uses four missiles to fill its performance envelope: the very-long-range 40N6 (400 km), the long-range 48N6 (250 km), the medium-range 9M96E2 (120 km) and the short-range 9M96E (40 km).
Thus the type and nos of missiles might define the cost of the package, India more or less might be taking more 40N6 to thwart the Pakistani nuclear tipped Ballistic missile threat by taking them out in space, and also, maybe some 48N6 for taking down the same missiles at closer ranges. And some quantity of the other two missiles. Turkey has no nuclear threat and hence its purchased with be more on the medium range and long range missiles and less of VERY LONG RANGE, missiles.
This is my opinion
Modi might be west leaning, but for Russia, India is a big market for them and they would not give a crazy price to scare the Indians.
True, S400 is a multilayer SAM system, I wonder how do they track a bogie 400 km away from the system, Is it by their primary radar or through various scan information from satellite, UAV, drone and fighter plane? maybe once target confirm... initial path will be calculated and using data link then with inbuilt seeker guidance it flies to the final destination.So if Indian can build a BMD system based on very similar logic why we are not trying to build a long-range SAM.
I do understand that but even then this much difference.
What i feel is either we are getting more than 5 regiments but dont want to tell the world or what constitutes as a regiment is different for India as against other deals.
We may say 5 systems, but we could have a mix of 2 and 3 batteries in each system instead of just 2. Each battery costs as much as $400M. Or else, our S-400 may have new elements from the S-500 also.
The structure of our deal is very likely to be different compared to China's or Turkey's. We may be building 6000 missiles through Reliance, which potentially means there is some major license production deal involved.
Of course, there's a good chance some other entirely different technology has latched on to the deal, which we are not aware of yet. So the S-400 + new stuff comes to $6B in total.
A lot of possibilities here. Let's see what's included after the deal is signed.
The GoI has time till Jan 2019 before the MCC kicks in .You reckon we'd see a signature on the dotted line before the deadline ?
The S-400 contract is to be signed in October, when Putin comes to India.
And the MCC is sometime after March. I don't expect early elections. They'll probably decide after Karnataka elections.
The last time in 2014 , the EC announced the schedule towards the end of Jan or early Feb . The MCC kicks in immediately. I expect the elections to happen on schedule .In April - May 2019.
It was said so many time before september 2016 .......
Once the first Rafale delivered, you will see in all indian tabloids how happy the indian pilots will be.
end of 2019, beginning of 2020 : a new order will be inked. In GtoG form or MII.... it's just my opinion.
It was announced on March 5th.
The MCC comes into play a month before elections begin.
The Model Code of Conduct is enforced from the date of announcement of election schedule by the Election Commission and is operational till the process of elections are completed.
http://eci.nic.in/eci_main/faq/faq_mcc.pdf
Answer to Question 3
http://eci.nic.in/eci_main/faq/faq_mcc.pdf
Answer to Question 3