Turkish KAAN Fighter Developments

Ashwin said:
They already have everything for a multi role fighter. From modern radar, air to air missile, JDAM, lank attack bombs. That's not enough to call multi role?!.

It fits perfectly for the definition of multi role. Open the link again, they advertise the multi role capability. Gradual, development cycle from trainer to light fighter.

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Okey, this is from your poster
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So, are you seeing any BVRAAM? Because I am not, and without BVRAAM how you be doing BARCAP, using only gun & sidewinder?

This is real bad, that even after Balakot & afterwards facing PAF, we still dont understand multirole missions.
 
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Arpit said:
Okey, this is from your poster
View attachment 32507

So, are you seeing any BVRAAM? Because I am not, and without BVRAAM how you be doing BARCAP, using only gun & sidewinder?

This is real bad, that even after Balakot & afterwards facing PAF, we still dont understand multirole missions.
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Thats why i asked how did you define multi role. It already has a powerful multi mode radar. BVR missile is just a matter of requirement. Its designed to fulfil the role of a trainer then gradually improved to light fighter. They already have other fighters to even intercept saucer.

Are you really making argument that BVR not integrated so they cant make a fifth generation in the future?
 
Ashwin said:
Thats why i asked how did you define multi role. It already has a powerful multi mode radar. BVR missile is just a matter of requirement. Its designed to fulfil the role of a trainer then gradually improved to light fighter. They already have other fighters to even intercept saucer.

Are you really making argument that BVR not integrated so they cant make a fifth generation in the future?
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What I define? Looks like what you are defining. And I have nowhere made that argument, thats all your inferiority complex for Indian designed jets.

Surpurisingly, why this so much high standard for Tejas, where it is shit in every corner, but any other jet is battlestar galactica, even though that is actual shit?

Is there some bias amongs Indians to potray everything Indians as some kind of inferior, even though evidence suggest otherwise?
 
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Asterion Moloc said:
It is due to contractual obligations between LM and Soko govt, according this Korean-American guy on twitter:
https://twitter.com/FacelessManTwit

The contract was to receive help in designing 4.5 gen fighter, so Korean did bait-n-switch by having this design in block-1 making it not a true 5th gen, but Lockheed has to support the design, while they will modify it as a true 5th gen in future or something along the lines he said, you can search on his profile for the same.
@Parthu
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@maximiliklinger @AlexLuck9 If the Koreans were honest about their intentions from the start, there is no way the US would agree to tech consulting by LM in the first place. Instead the Koreans bait and switched. This was possible because the aircraft is engineered in Korea, LM providing design reviews.
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https://www.sotwe.com/tweet/1309209397361545216
 
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Arpit said:
What I define? Looks like what you are defining. And I have nowhere made that argument, thats all your inferiority complex for Indian designed jets.

Surpurisingly, why this so much high standard for Tejas, where it is shit in every corner, but any other jet is battlestar galactica, even though that is actual shit?

Is there some bias amongs Indians to potray everything Indians as some kind of inferior, even though evidence suggest otherwise?
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I literally asked you to define what do you mean by multi role fighter, And you replied talking about BVR.

Where exactly I portray Indian inferior? Stating Korea’s developed and produced a fighter is inferiority complex? Now think hard who has it.
 
Ashwin said:
I literally asked you to define what do you mean by multi role fighter, And you replied talking about BVR.
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This is going into endless debate, if you litteraly dont know what multirole means, then there is no point in discussion. Might be Tejas Mk1 IOC too was multi role, and IAF was bloody fools.

Where exactly I portray Indian inferior? Stating Korea’s developed and produced a fighter is inferiority complex? Now think hard who has it.
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You really don’t know about T-50 ? Unlike tejas it actually kept timelines and exported to multiple countries. They also have way more matured industry in general.

In “few years” there is no chance of AMCA flying but Koreans will start production.
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Oh, first bring in Tejas, and then become holier than thou.

Its a waste of time right now, this is my last reply to you.
 
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KF-21, as per the Koreans themselves, is a modest design with modest requirements. 2 blocks are assured. The first one with 0.1m2 class RCS and no IWB, and the second one with IWB and 0.01m2 class stealth, basically LO.

AMCA is a true next-gen jet with VLO and supercruise.

So, the basic design and requirements are completely different. The Rafale and Typhoon will still be superior to the KF-21 B1 due to the lack of supercruise. But B2 would become what Rafale and Typhoon should have been since the very beginning. But no harm, no foul, we are talking about 30 years later.

As a smaller jet, the KF-21 with full fuel is 1T less than AMCA, so the F414 is sufficient for it.

AMCA is not an analog of the F-35. The F-35's weapons bays are big and can carry heavy weapons, whereas AMCA is primarily suitable only for A2A loads, with some smaller weapons sufficient for SEAD/DEAD and some CAS and interdiction missions. The requirements are completely opposite of each other. Drones are necessary for AMCA to fulfill the DPS mission.

KAAN's being designed to compete with the Su-57. So its stealth, weapons and avionics will have to at least match the Su-57, even if it falls short everywhere else. Turkey claims their new engine will generate power from the compressor section, the same as what's being designed for the Tempest.

The people I have spoken to say our design is better than both jets. But ours is currently on paper and its specs are tentative. And a joke going around is we will get our jet when theirs are ready to retire.
 
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Arpit said:
This is going into endless debate, if you litteraly dont know what multirole means, then there is no point in discussion. Might be Tejas Mk1 IOC too was multi role, and IAF was bloody fools.
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Exactly why i said its a result of requirement.

Arpit said:
Oh, first bring in Tejas, and then become holier than thou.

Its a waste of time right now, this is my last reply to you.
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Was I talking to you then? The context was about the Korean capability to field a modern fighter, not a multi-role one. What you came up with has nothing to do with the statement. It really doesn't matter if the Korean fighter can fire BVR or not, as long as they have shown the capability to develop, produce, and export it.
 
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Arpit said:
Surpurisingly, why this so much high standard for Tejas, where it is shit in every corner, but any other jet is battlestar galactica, even though that is actual shit?

Is there some bias amongs Indians to potray everything Indians as some kind of inferior, even though evidence suggest otherwise?
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LCA Mk1A actually won the tech round in Malaysia. The FA-50 was chosen 'cause it was operational. I won't be surprised if there was a China factor in the decision-making process.

LCA is a full-fledged fighter, whereas FA-50 is a trainer converted to a fighter, still rocks two seats. The Koreans are working on a new single-seat design based on the FA-50 that can compete with LCA called F-50. It was a program from earlier, but restarted this year. I suppose the LCA threat, including LCA Mk2 and Gripen E, forced them to take this measure.
 
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Arpit said:
Okey, this is from your poster
View attachment 32507

So, are you seeing any BVRAAM? Because I am not, and without BVRAAM how you be doing BARCAP, using only gun & sidewinder?

This is real bad, that even after Balakot & afterwards facing PAF, we still dont understand multirole missions.
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Malaysian FA-50 will come with an American AESA radar and AIM-120.

Integration of a BVR missile is subject to client interest, and the current options are the AMRAAM and Derby.
 
randomradio said:
Integration of a BVR missile is subject to client interest, and the current options are the AMRAAM and Derby.
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More like I-Derby-ER.

Its also available on Tejas. Its a decent missile. 100 KM. Astra can be better than it but I do not know how good is Astra's seeker technology.
 
Saaho said:
More like I-Derby-ER.

Its also available on Tejas. Its a decent missile. 100 KM. Astra can be better than it but I do not know how good is Astra's seeker technology.
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There is no need for I-Derby right now, when Astra Mk-1 is available with bidirectional datalink.
 
Saaho said:
More like I-Derby-ER.

Its also available on Tejas. Its a decent missile. 100 KM. Astra can be better than it but I do not know how good is Astra's seeker technology.
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Yeah. Both use pretty much the same airframe, so integrating one is like integrating the other.
 
Rajput Lion said:
And AMCA's first flight is targeted for 2028. So we're not that behind KAAN it seems.
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Problem is, we have HAL.... and ADA.
randomradio said:
The IOC dates are more important. Especially Turkey's plan with the definitive engine.
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True. Details of our choice of engine is not yet fully public or decided. Given how much pound foolish penny wise Indian government officials are, I am sure it will be convoluted beyond measure.
 
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Saaho said:
True. Details of our choice of engine is not yet fully public or decided. Given how much pound foolish penny wise Indian government officials are, I am sure it will be convoluted beyond measure.
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The govt is being sensible about this.
 
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