Aero India 2023 - Bengaluru
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Hope BDL starts license producing storm shadows, spear 3 and Brimstonea
So, IAF will use ASRAAM as their go-to WVR missile and label it as NGCCM. I am not getting why the DRDO did not develop a similar missile?
Did not they buy a batch of R73E again in 2019? ASRAAM local production was on the cards for some time & now confirmed so a good step. They already are using old past shelf life Rus a2a stuff into Samar system as sam, so I guess asraam would replace those old stocks. Astra IR seems reliant on the seeker being made first so on the backburner for now.
If Astra-IR was developed, we would have got our own Mica like system. WVR missiles market is full of contenders. e.g. USA has AIM-9X, UK has ASRAAM, France has Mica, Germany has IRIS-T, Russia has R-74 and Israel has Python-5.
If it's Astra missile with IR head then no. It's not a WVR missile. It's a BVR missile with IR head like R-27.
If it's clean sheet WVR missile with less than 100kg weight then it has nothing to do with Astra.
DRDO started development work on a CCM either in the 2nd half of 2021 or in 2022. It should take 4-5 yrs for the missile to be certified & ready for mass production from date of commencement of developmental work .
If you look at the pattern it's quite clear IAF is tuning all it's platforms for western & indigenous weapons systems . On the face of it , it begins with LCA to improve it's export potential .
Behind the scenes the objective seems to be to prepare for the forthcoming war on the LAC wherein if we're faced with short supply we don't have to undergo what we did in Kargil in 1999 where we had to ask the Israelis in an emergency , who rigged our Mirage 2000 into being fitted with Israeli 2000 lbs LGB & charged us a bomb for it later.
With the likes of China we won't have such luxuries. So for the foreseeable future you'd see such stuff as IAF integrates missiles from multiple sources viz Israeli , Russian , French UK & the US for the same mission as with indigenous ones .
ASRAAM Block-6 is world's best IIR missile. It can pull 50+G at the rail and because of very clean aero has over 50kms range. It's the perfect J-20 killer for MKI. MKI with QWIP IRST and ASRAAM combo is going to be a very potent force, IMO.
Astra IR is different from NGCCM, I guess!
Astra IR is different from NGCCM, I guess!
My point is a bit different. There is no such thing as world's best missile or system. Everyone can claim their tech is the best.
Also, I think under no circumstances will PLAAF bring J-20 to a dog fight where the win is determined by IIR missile. J-20 role is to fire it's long range missile and disappear.
Is there any news regarding the development of a new CCM missile? I have never heard of it.
DRDO’s New Next-Gen Close Combat Missile
Bangalore: With the emergence of futuristic Unmanned Combat Drone HAL/CATS Loyal Wingman, part of Combat Air Teaming System program that will fly alongside the Indian Air Force fighter aircraft in …
defenceupdate.in
Um, I read somewhere that IAF addresses ASRAAM as the NGCCM so both are same. Just the thing is NGCCM will be produced by BDL.DRDO’s New Next-Gen Close Combat Missile
Bangalore: With the emergence of futuristic Unmanned Combat Drone HAL/CATS Loyal Wingman, part of Combat Air Teaming System program that will fly alongside the Indian Air Force fighter aircraft in …
I am yet to find any post on new indigenous WVR which is under development.
How are both the same when one is an existing product & the other is being developed by DRDO to be launched for production in 4-5 yrs ?
You asked for a reference , I gave it to you. If you want more google it under the head DRDO developing close combat missiles. There's a lot of literature out there on the topic.
ASRAAM isn't a pure WVR missile like R-73E. It has the longest range of all IIR missiles(along with MICA-IR) almost bordering on BVR ranges(over 50-60kms at high altitude). Its seeker is the most advance(block-6).
You got me wrong. MKI with QWIP IRST will detect and shoot at J-20 before they get to the merge. That's the point of such clean aero on ASRAAM.
Rafale with MICA-IR is just the same. MICA-IR can be used both for WVR and BVR. It can also pull 50+G at the rail and is good enough for 60km interception at high altitude. It is Rafale's primary weapon not Meteor. In fact, Rafale uses its OSF along with SPECTRA to make total passive surprise attacks with MICA-IR.
Radar guided missiles with puny seekers are literally useless against VLO fighters. You need IIR long/medium range missiles that can use LOAL mode and data links to neutralize them.
ASRAAM block-6 for Tejas and MKI is a very good move. In the meanwhile we should continue to pursue our IIR BVR and IIR CCM projects.
Last edited:
Nope, ASRAAM is pure WVR missile like Sidewinder or Python.
Longest ranged IR missile is R-27 family.
Of course it is WVR. That wasn't my point. But thanks to its clean aero vis-a-vis other Dogfight missiles like Python/Archer(look at the fins in missile body), it is much less draggy. Which results in much higher near BVR range fot it plus extra speed.
Even though MBDA say only "excess of 25 kms" as its range. Some sources say it can strike upto 50kms when launched from high altitude.
That's the USP of ASRAAM against Python-5 and IRIS-T, both of which have got insane maneuverability(ability to pull over 60G at the rail). ASRAAM can pull only 50G in comparison. It's a trade off between speed/range vs maneuverability.
Yes but since it's LOBL, its extra range advantage is hardly effective in real world.
LOAL helps in both 360° WVR interception plus long range totally passive attack.