Yes it's because India pretends to be interested to get as much information as possible, in order to finally launch a competing national project. Besides, the same story on the same subject took place with the Russians and the Israelis.
Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Himanshu
- Start date
India, France sign military logistics support deal and 13 other agreements - The Statesman
A total of 14 agreements were signed between India and France in the presence of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi…
India, France sign pact on maritime information sharing in Indian Ocean Region
The agreement was signed on January 19 here when the two sides held their second dialogue on maritime cooperation for the Indian Ocean Region.
French Barracuda project’s utility to India
India can look to France for design and technologies to make low-enriched uranium cores for its nuclear submarines
www.livemint.com
WiP. Even otherwise such projects have a long gestation period, say x. Consider 2x or 3x as far as India goes. Incidentally the biggest party to oppose the proposed N power plant in Jaitapur Maharashtra is the SS.
I think the Chinese virus & Beijing's subsequent behavior has changed the entire equation in Western capitals including how they perceive the threat matrix from Beijing as well as how to face down that threat. Expect a lot of changes going ahead including the NSG to begin with.
Nicolas Sarkozy and Manmohan Singh in nuclear deal
India signs a deal to buy nuclear reactors from France, following talks between President Nicolas Sarkozy and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in Delhi.
www.bbc.com
Way forward agreed for Jaitapur reactors - World Nuclear News
An Industrial Way Forward Agreement signed on 10 March by the CEOs of EDF and Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd (NPCIL) sets out the industrial framework and planned timetable for the implementation of six EPR reactors at Jaitapur, as well as the roles and responsibilities of the partners.
India is a natural ally to Australia regarding the China navy.
I doubt an agreement can't be found, maybe with a small financial retrocession to Australia which paid the design.
Are there any Indian companies capable of developing the required Lithium batteries? I think Indian Navy is following the Japanese Navy's Soryu class design principles.
ISRO have technology, some time back such reports have surfaced. But for industrial scale capacity, i dont know.
Japan Just Launched Its First “Big Whale” Lithium-Ion Battery Powered Submarine
Japan is preparing to introduce an innovative new class of diesel-electric submarine, the largest it has built since World War II.
www.thedrive.com
Make in India Stealth Submarines
The Chinese aggression in Eastern Ladakh appears to have egged the government in giving impetus to the Indian Navy’s Project 75(I) (P75(I)). Project 75(I)-class submarine is follow-on of the Project 75 Kalvari-class submarine for the Indian Navy. Under this project, the Indian Navy is to acquire six diesel-electric submarines costing 42,000 crore, which will also feature advanced Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems to enable them to stay submerged for longer duration and substantially increase their operational range.The Navy presently has only two new Scorpene and 13 over 20 years old diesel-electric conventional submarines, apart from two nuclear powered submarines though four more of the French-origin Scorpene submarines are to be delivered by 2022 under the ongoing over 23,000 crore Project 75 at Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL). According to MDL, the technology being used for construction of the Scorpene class submarines under Project 75 ensure superior stealth features such as advanced acoustic silencing techniques, low radiated noise levels and hydro-dynamically optimised shape. These submarines are equipped both with torpedoes and tube launched anti-ship missiles that can fire underwater and on the surface. But compare this to China’s current fleet of 66 submarines which include conventional and nuclear submarines. Pakistan already has five submarines and is in the process of receiving eight new Chinese Yuan-class submarines with AIP systems for greater underwater endurance. The irony in India is that the P75(I) project was first granted acceptance of necessity (AoN) way back in November 2007 but is still not finalised 13 years down the line. It would have perhaps remained shelved had the PLA not effected theatre-level intrusions in Ladakh.
Grappling with an ageing and fast-depleting underwater submarine combat arm, the Navy hopes to induct the first new submarine “seven years after” the P75(I) contract is finally inked by 2021-2022. News reports of August 10 have now quoted Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources saying that the tender or request for proposal (RFP) to make six new-generation stealth submarines in India with foreign collaboration under the P75(I) Project “should be issued by next month” to MDL and private ship-builder L&T. Significantly, this will be the first project to be launched under the strategic partnership (SP) policy promulgated by the NDA government in May 2017 to boost indigenous production under the overall `Make in India’ platform. The two Indian shipyards or SPs will have to submit their technical and commercial bids in response to the RFP after they tie up with their preferred Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) from the five short-listed by the MoD; Rubin Design Bureau (Russia), Naval Group DCNS (France), ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Navantia (Spain) and Daewoo (South Korea). According to the MoD, the P75(I) project, which can be finalised by December 2021 “at the earliest”, will bring in key technologies to ensure the next submarine-building project (P76) is completely indigenous in design and technology.
Under the approved plans, the Navy should get 18 conventional submarines as well as six nuclear-powered attack submarines (called SSNs) and four nuclear-powered submarines with long-range nuclear-tipped missiles (SSBNs) for effective deterrence against China and Pakistan. But the question is when will the dreams of Project 76 be actually realised considering that Project 75(I) was lying frozen for 13 years and even now will have a long gestation period – first submarine probably in 2028-2029? The fact is that none of the major six to seven ‘Make in India’ defence projects, collectively worth over 3.5 lakh crore have actually taken off in the last six to seven years, as has been reported in the media. One can only wonder what would have been the cost of P75(I) a decade back compared to the 42,000 crore of today? We have also suffered successive defence budgets lower than 1962?
In a recent study, US Naval Intelligence expects China’s submarine fleet to grow from around 66 today to 76 by 2030. This will include 6 additional nuclear-powered attack submarines to existing 10. However, James E. Fanell former Director of Intelligence and Information Operations of US Navy’s Pacific Fleet estimates China having 110 submarines by 2030. Of interest should be how Chinese feel Japan is conceptualising dealing with China’s submarine threat. Japan does not plan to expand its fleet of 20 diesel-electric submarines but these are among the most modern and sophisticated in the world albeit without doubt they will be outnumbered by Chinese submarines. So Japan has optimised its entire fleet of submarines, ships and planes for anti-submarine warfare (ASW). According to Hua Dan of China’s Army Engineering University, Japanese and allied forces would pursue a comprehensive strategy during war to dismantle the Chinese submarine fleet by undertaking a campaign of “active offense” involving direct air and missile attacks against Chinese submarine bases, shipyards and torpedo manufacturing facilities. Meanwhile Japanese vessels would mine the waters outside Chinese ports followed by Japanese ships and planes enforcing a blockade zone around Okinawa in order to catch Chinese submarines that succeed in leaving port. Finally, Japan and its allied will undertake “encirclement and annihilation combat” on the high seas to hunt down and destroy Chinese submarines that slip past the Okinawa blockade zone. Whether Hua has accurately visualised the scenario or not, especially since he has not talked of the American presence and strength, only actual conflict will show. He has also made no mention of the possible threat to the economic centres of China proximate to its eastern coast. But discussion of such scenarios in the Indo-Pacific has become essential for responding to rogue China. Finally, the Indian Government must break their shackles of ‘defensive defence’ and start thinking of ‘active offense’ as the Japanese do.
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Source, pls?Make in India Stealth Submarines
The Chinese aggression in Eastern Ladakh appears to have egged the government in giving impetus to the Indian Navy’s Project 75(I) (P75(I)). Project 75(I)-class submarine is follow-on of the Project 75 Kalvari-class submarine for the Indian Navy. Under this project, the Indian Navy is to acquire six diesel-electric submarines costing 42,000 crore, which will also feature advanced Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems to enable them to stay submerged for longer duration and substantially increase their operational range.
The Navy presently has only two new Scorpene and 13 over 20 years old diesel-electric conventional submarines, apart from two nuclear powered submarines though four more of the French-origin Scorpene submarines are to be delivered by 2022 under the ongoing over 23,000 crore Project 75 at Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL). According to MDL, the technology being used for construction of the Scorpene class submarines under Project 75 ensure superior stealth features such as advanced acoustic silencing techniques, low radiated noise levels and hydro-dynamically optimised shape. These submarines are equipped both with torpedoes and tube launched anti-ship missiles that can fire underwater and on the surface. But compare this to China’s current fleet of 66 submarines which include conventional and nuclear submarines. Pakistan already has five submarines and is in the process of receiving eight new Chinese Yuan-class submarines with AIP systems for greater underwater endurance. The irony in India is that the P75(I) project was first granted acceptance of necessity (AoN) way back in November 2007 but is still not finalised 13 years down the line. It would have perhaps remained shelved had the PLA not effected theatre-level intrusions in Ladakh.
Grappling with an ageing and fast-depleting underwater submarine combat arm, the Navy hopes to induct the first new submarine “seven years after” the P75(I) contract is finally inked by 2021-2022. News reports of August 10 have now quoted Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources saying that the tender or request for proposal (RFP) to make six new-generation stealth submarines in India with foreign collaboration under the P75(I) Project “should be issued by next month” to MDL and private ship-builder L&T. Significantly, this will be the first project to be launched under the strategic partnership (SP) policy promulgated by the NDA government in May 2017 to boost indigenous production under the overall `Make in India’ platform. The two Indian shipyards or SPs will have to submit their technical and commercial bids in response to the RFP after they tie up with their preferred Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) from the five short-listed by the MoD; Rubin Design Bureau (Russia), Naval Group DCNS (France), ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Navantia (Spain) and Daewoo (South Korea). According to the MoD, the P75(I) project, which can be finalised by December 2021 “at the earliest”, will bring in key technologies to ensure the next submarine-building project (P76) is completely indigenous in design and technology.
Under the approved plans, the Navy should get 18 conventional submarines as well as six nuclear-powered attack submarines (called SSNs) and four nuclear-powered submarines with long-range nuclear-tipped missiles (SSBNs) for effective deterrence against China and Pakistan. But the question is when will the dreams of Project 76 be actually realised considering that Project 75(I) was lying frozen for 13 years and even now will have a long gestation period – first submarine probably in 2028-2029? The fact is that none of the major six to seven ‘Make in India’ defence projects, collectively worth over 3.5 lakh crore have actually taken off in the last six to seven years, as has been reported in the media. One can only wonder what would have been the cost of P75(I) a decade back compared to the 42,000 crore of today? We have also suffered successive defence budgets lower than 1962?
In a recent study, US Naval Intelligence expects China’s submarine fleet to grow from around 66 today to 76 by 2030. This will include 6 additional nuclear-powered attack submarines to existing 10. However, James E. Fanell former Director of Intelligence and Information Operations of US Navy’s Pacific Fleet estimates China having 110 submarines by 2030. Of interest should be how Chinese feel Japan is conceptualising dealing with China’s submarine threat. Japan does not plan to expand its fleet of 20 diesel-electric submarines but these are among the most modern and sophisticated in the world albeit without doubt they will be outnumbered by Chinese submarines. So Japan has optimised its entire fleet of submarines, ships and planes for anti-submarine warfare (ASW). According to Hua Dan of China’s Army Engineering University, Japanese and allied forces would pursue a comprehensive strategy during war to dismantle the Chinese submarine fleet by undertaking a campaign of “active offense” involving direct air and missile attacks against Chinese submarine bases, shipyards and torpedo manufacturing facilities. Meanwhile Japanese vessels would mine the waters outside Chinese ports followed by Japanese ships and planes enforcing a blockade zone around Okinawa in order to catch Chinese submarines that succeed in leaving port. Finally, Japan and its allied will undertake “encirclement and annihilation combat” on the high seas to hunt down and destroy Chinese submarines that slip past the Okinawa blockade zone. Whether Hua has accurately visualised the scenario or not, especially since he has not talked of the American presence and strength, only actual conflict will show. He has also made no mention of the possible threat to the economic centres of China proximate to its eastern coast. But discussion of such scenarios in the Indo-Pacific has become essential for responding to rogue China. Finally, the Indian Government must break their shackles of ‘defensive defence’ and start thinking of ‘active offense’ as the Japanese do.
Now it's done. I had difficulties with pictures.... so it took time.
You will need Japan submarine and Australian Barracuda to be added to your submarine against China.
The Japanese aren't even part of the forthcoming tender. They're more snooty than the Americans. I'd prefer the Barracuda or the SMX- Ocean.
My remark was to build a coalition against China, not for the induction of new submarines. And France has territories in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific and has a not insignificant navy to help too.
France and India Talk Submarines as Rafale Fighters Are Delivered (excerpt)
BHUBANESWAR, India --- India received three more French fighter jets on Wednesday, and a deal for French submarines might not be far behind as the European and South Asian nations find they share a commitment to Indian Ocean security.
The submarines would come from French shipbuilder Naval Group, which "will formulate an offer that goes very far in the Make in India direction," said a source familiar with the company's preparation for the submarine procurement tender under the Indian Navy's P75I category.
India's state-owned Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders is building six Scorpene-class
submarines under French license, under and the two governments are nearing
agreement on a follow-on deal for six additional boats valued at $6 billion.
(India MoD photo)
The source spoke of talks between French Defense Minister Florence Parly and her Indian counterpart, Rajnath Singh, in September. The meeting, in New Delhi, covered Indo-French defense cooperation and procurement contracts, including "ongoing ones as well as possible future prospects," the source said. "One of these is the P75I submarines tender."
The tender is to build six stealth submarines with air-independent propulsion technology that would have a longer submerged range than subs already being shipped to the Indian Navy.
The deal, expected to be finalized sometime next year, is valued at 420 billion rupees ($5.6 billion), according to Harsh V Pant, chief of the Strategic Studies Programme, Observer Research Foundation.
Naval Group is currently working with India's state-owned Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders to deliver six Kalvari submarines that are valued at a combined 230 billion rupees ($3.13 billion). Two of these have already been launched, two are undergoing sea trials and two are under construction. (end of excerpt)
BHUBANESWAR, India --- India received three more French fighter jets on Wednesday, and a deal for French submarines might not be far behind as the European and South Asian nations find they share a commitment to Indian Ocean security.
The submarines would come from French shipbuilder Naval Group, which "will formulate an offer that goes very far in the Make in India direction," said a source familiar with the company's preparation for the submarine procurement tender under the Indian Navy's P75I category.
India's state-owned Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders is building six Scorpene-class
submarines under French license, under and the two governments are nearing
agreement on a follow-on deal for six additional boats valued at $6 billion.
(India MoD photo)
The source spoke of talks between French Defense Minister Florence Parly and her Indian counterpart, Rajnath Singh, in September. The meeting, in New Delhi, covered Indo-French defense cooperation and procurement contracts, including "ongoing ones as well as possible future prospects," the source said. "One of these is the P75I submarines tender."
The tender is to build six stealth submarines with air-independent propulsion technology that would have a longer submerged range than subs already being shipped to the Indian Navy.
The deal, expected to be finalized sometime next year, is valued at 420 billion rupees ($5.6 billion), according to Harsh V Pant, chief of the Strategic Studies Programme, Observer Research Foundation.
Naval Group is currently working with India's state-owned Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders to deliver six Kalvari submarines that are valued at a combined 230 billion rupees ($3.13 billion). Two of these have already been launched, two are undergoing sea trials and two are under construction. (end of excerpt)
Make in India Stealth Submarines
The Chinese aggression in Eastern Ladakh appears to have egged the government in giving impetus to the Indian Navy’s Project 75(I) (P75(I)). Project 75(I)-class submarine is follow-on of the Project 75 Kalvari-class submarine for the Indian Navy. Under this project, the Indian Navy is to acquire six diesel-electric submarines costing 42,000 crore, which will also feature advanced Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems to enable them to stay submerged for longer duration and substantially increase their operational range.
The Navy presently has only two new Scorpene and 13 over 20 years old diesel-electric conventional submarines, apart from two nuclear powered submarines though four more of the French-origin Scorpene submarines are to be delivered by 2022 under the ongoing over 23,000 crore Project 75 at Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL). According to MDL, the technology being used for construction of the Scorpene class submarines under Project 75 ensure superior stealth features such as advanced acoustic silencing techniques, low radiated noise levels and hydro-dynamically optimised shape. These submarines are equipped both with torpedoes and tube launched anti-ship missiles that can fire underwater and on the surface. But compare this to China’s current fleet of 66 submarines which include conventional and nuclear submarines. Pakistan already has five submarines and is in the process of receiving eight new Chinese Yuan-class submarines with AIP systems for greater underwater endurance. The irony in India is that the P75(I) project was first granted acceptance of necessity (AoN) way back in November 2007 but is still not finalised 13 years down the line. It would have perhaps remained shelved had the PLA not effected theatre-level intrusions in Ladakh.
Grappling with an ageing and fast-depleting underwater submarine combat arm, the Navy hopes to induct the first new submarine “seven years after” the P75(I) contract is finally inked by 2021-2022. News reports of August 10 have now quoted Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources saying that the tender or request for proposal (RFP) to make six new-generation stealth submarines in India with foreign collaboration under the P75(I) Project “should be issued by next month” to MDL and private ship-builder L&T. Significantly, this will be the first project to be launched under the strategic partnership (SP) policy promulgated by the NDA government in May 2017 to boost indigenous production under the overall `Make in India’ platform. The two Indian shipyards or SPs will have to submit their technical and commercial bids in response to the RFP after they tie up with their preferred Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) from the five short-listed by the MoD; Rubin Design Bureau (Russia), Naval Group DCNS (France), ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Navantia (Spain) and Daewoo (South Korea). According to the MoD, the P75(I) project, which can be finalised by December 2021 “at the earliest”, will bring in key technologies to ensure the next submarine-building project (P76) is completely indigenous in design and technology.
Under the approved plans, the Navy should get 18 conventional submarines as well as six nuclear-powered attack submarines (called SSNs) and four nuclear-powered submarines with long-range nuclear-tipped missiles (SSBNs) for effective deterrence against China and Pakistan. But the question is when will the dreams of Project 76 be actually realised considering that Project 75(I) was lying frozen for 13 years and even now will have a long gestation period – first submarine probably in 2028-2029? The fact is that none of the major six to seven ‘Make in India’ defence projects, collectively worth over 3.5 lakh crore have actually taken off in the last six to seven years, as has been reported in the media. One can only wonder what would have been the cost of P75(I) a decade back compared to the 42,000 crore of today? We have also suffered successive defence budgets lower than 1962?
In a recent study, US Naval Intelligence expects China’s submarine fleet to grow from around 66 today to 76 by 2030. This will include 6 additional nuclear-powered attack submarines to existing 10. However, James E. Fanell former Director of Intelligence and Information Operations of US Navy’s Pacific Fleet estimates China having 110 submarines by 2030. Of interest should be how Chinese feel Japan is conceptualising dealing with China’s submarine threat. Japan does not plan to expand its fleet of 20 diesel-electric submarines but these are among the most modern and sophisticated in the world albeit without doubt they will be outnumbered by Chinese submarines. So Japan has optimised its entire fleet of submarines, ships and planes for anti-submarine warfare (ASW). According to Hua Dan of China’s Army Engineering University, Japanese and allied forces would pursue a comprehensive strategy during war to dismantle the Chinese submarine fleet by undertaking a campaign of “active offense” involving direct air and missile attacks against Chinese submarine bases, shipyards and torpedo manufacturing facilities. Meanwhile Japanese vessels would mine the waters outside Chinese ports followed by Japanese ships and planes enforcing a blockade zone around Okinawa in order to catch Chinese submarines that succeed in leaving port. Finally, Japan and its allied will undertake “encirclement and annihilation combat” on the high seas to hunt down and destroy Chinese submarines that slip past the Okinawa blockade zone. Whether Hua has accurately visualised the scenario or not, especially since he has not talked of the American presence and strength, only actual conflict will show. He has also made no mention of the possible threat to the economic centres of China proximate to its eastern coast. But discussion of such scenarios in the Indo-Pacific has become essential for responding to rogue China. Finally, the Indian Government must break their shackles of ‘defensive defence’ and start thinking of ‘active offense’ as the Japanese do.
The article simply assumes the Japanese will fight alone and not in a coalition with the US and Australia. The three navies combined have way more advanced subs than the Chinese do at this time.