F16, Gripen - Make In India Single Engine Aircraft - News and possibilities

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Which are the large systems which are pre-1980s, pre-2000s? Don't tell me things which have saturated like rifles, tanks etc. The same dragunov sniper rifle of 1960 still works excellent today, for example. But, dynamic systems which have shown growth, please state the pre-1980 ones

LCA Mk1, Arjun Mk1, LCH, Pinaka, Akash, Arihant etc. These are all systems developed between the 60s and 2000s in varying degrees around the world.

The post 2000 technologies are yet to be introduced in a meaningful way. LCA Mk2, ATAGS, APC, Arjun Mk2 etc.

In fact we will only start introducing post 2000 tech over the next 5-10 years.
 
LCA Mk1, Arjun Mk1, LCH, Pinaka, Akash, Arihant etc. These are all systems developed between the 60s and 2000s in varying degrees around the world.

The post 2000 technologies are yet to be introduced in a meaningful way. LCA Mk2, ATAGS, APC, Arjun Mk2 etc.

In fact we will only start introducing post 2000 tech over the next 5-10 years.

Yes, but, these have not been replaced yet. They are fully functional. As I said, technology matures and that exactly has happened. AIM-120C, Abrams, Apache, MRBL, GPS, Missiles, Nuclear bombs, all vehicles, satellite communication and surveillance, internet, SAM, BMD, nuclear submarines, aircraft carrier, artillery, MRBL, transport planes, seekers etc were all pre-2000.

If we see things more clearly, USA had most of the items in use today made before 2000. Even first flight was 2001. There hasn't been much improvement. Supercomputing era resulted in the most perfect design being completed in the first iteration itself as computers can simulate it well and computers don't make mistakes. So, many designs were perfected directly.

Only AESA radar, advanced avionics and powerful seekers are post 2000. If we consider 2010, then we can say that there has been no improvement in technology at all after 2010.

As I said, with computerisation, making these have become easier. Also, with access to these technology from other countries, making these would be relatively easy
 
Agreement for ~110 F-16s has been reached.

Discussions in progress on the India specific customizations.
Are you sure about it?? Source pls!!

This is unlikely on so many lvls, let me list a few, temp slow down in Indian economy due to Demonetisation & GST, so no big time projects at this point of time, moreover highly unlikely BJP govt would take risk in coming election year, especially after the Gujarat scare where % vote in favour was so very close. Lets be honest F16 in AirForce trials has not been the best capable platform in several regards & its on written record, something impossible to go away.
Remember AugustaWestland & Bofors Scandal & its political fallout. Do you think BJP can tweak or get Airforce to tweak the requirement for F16 & risk similar fate. Even in Govt to Govt deal, the product has to first pass Military trials to be eligible.
So even if assuming F16 is to come through, it wont ever happen before 2019 election. Assuming all the red mark in file can be done away & not to mention possible face similar fate like Ex AirForce Chief Tyagi later.
Even assuming chief ignoring Tyagi earlier fate, agree to a informal deal with govt, Rafale MII in lieu of F16 & tweeks it in favour of F16. Even for that Raflae MII as precondition is yet to happen with assured numbers as wanted by Airforce.

If India is looking to cement India USA partnership with a big defence project - F16 be least likely, More likely it be Guardian/Avenger HALE drones type big contract. Something which will not have any major blowback from any quarter including politically.

Dont see F16 happening, even if BJP decide to risk it, it wont be Before 2019 election. Infact I dont see F16 happening at all even post 2019 election, for a old obsolete plane to be signed up for next 50 years by India, joke & will have political ramifications for sure! best chance be in UAC & UCAV segment for big defence deal.
Talks can happen a zillion times between India USA on F16, above compulsion wont go away & cant go away....
 
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Lockheed proposes making custom-built fighter jets in India

American aerospace and defence major Lockheed Martin has proposed to manufacture custom-built F-35 fighter jets in India, which its officials say will give Indian industry a unique opportunity to become part of the world's largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.​
"We plan to introduce two new words into the lexicon of international fighter aircraft manufacturing: 'India' and 'exclusive'," Vivek Lall, vice president, strategy and business development, at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics told PTI in an interview.​
"India-specific state-of-the-art fighter production in India will be exclusive, something that has never before been presented by any other fighter aircraft manufacturer, past or present. There will also be a significant export market available for Indian-made fighters," he said.​
Lall, an Indian American who last year was instrumental in the decision of the Trump administration to sell top-of- the-line unarmed drones from General Atomics, in his previous capacity.​
Noting that the India-specific fighter on offer and its programme's size, scope and success will enable Indian industry to take advantage of unprecedented manufacturing, upgrade and sustainment opportunities well into the future, Lall said the platform will give Indian industry a unique opportunity to become a part of the world's largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.​
"We intend to create far more than an "assembly line" in India," he said.​
Lall claimed no other advanced fourth generation platform even comes close to matching the record of real-world combat experience and proven operational effectiveness.​
"The fighter being offered specifically to India is uniquely the best state-of-the-art fighter," he said adding that all three variants of the F-35 are single-engine aircraft.​
Many of the systems used on the India-specific platform are derived from key lessons learned and technologies from Lockheed Martin's F-22 and the F-35, the world's only operational fifth generation fighters, he said.​
Northrop Grumman's advanced APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar on the F-16 Block 70 provides F-16s with fifth generation fighter radar capabilities by leveraging hardware and software commonality with F-22 and F-35 AESA radars, he added.​
The APG-83 radar shares more than 95 per cent software commonality with the F-35 radar and more than 70 per cent hardware commonality.​
Lall said the F-16 provides the path to business relationships with Lockheed Martin, the only company in the world that has designed, developed and produced operational fifth generation fighter aircraft.​
Technology improvements will also continue to flow between the F-16, F-22 and F-35 for decades, at a fraction of the cost to F-16 operators, he said.​
The platform being offered provides unmatched opportunities for Indian companies of all sizes, including micro, small & medium enterprises (MSMEs) and suppliers throughout India, to establish new business relationships with Lockheed Martin and other industry leaders in the US and around the globe, Lall said giving an insight into the offer being made by his company.​
Asserting that approximately half of the Indian fighter supply chain will be common with the fifth generation F-22 and F-35, Lall said the aircraft brings the most modern avionics, a proven AESA radar, modernised cockpit, advanced weapons, longer range with conformal fuel tanks, auto ground collision avoidance capability, and an advanced engine with an extended service life.​
Even with the addition of targeting systems and two 2,000 pound (lb) class Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs), the aircraft has a mission radius exceeding 1,300 kms -- 30 per cent greater than that of its closest competitor, he said.​
"Many of the advances in systems on the aircraft India would get draw directly from key lessons learned from Lockheed Martin's work on the F-22 and the F-35," he said.​
"The AESA radar is the result of over two decades of investment, use and experience with AESA technology, and it's fully operational today," Lall said.​
 
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Lockheed proposes making custom-built fighter jets in India

American aerospace and defence major Lockheed Martin has proposed to manufacture custom-built F-35 fighter jets in India, which its officials say will give Indian industry a unique opportunity to become part of the world's largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.​


"We plan to introduce two new words into the lexicon of international fighter aircraft manufacturing: 'India' and 'exclusive'," Vivek Lall, vice president, strategy and business development, at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics told PTI in an interview.​


"India-specific state-of-the-art fighter production in India will be exclusive, something that has never before been presented by any other fighter aircraft manufacturer, past or present. There will also be a significant export market available for Indian-made fighters," he said.​


Lall, an Indian American who last year was instrumental in the decision of the Trump administration to sell top-of- the-line unarmed drones from General Atomics, in his previous capacity.​


Noting that the India-specific fighter on offer and its programme's size, scope and success will enable Indian industry to take advantage of unprecedented manufacturing, upgrade and sustainment opportunities well into the future, Lall said the platform will give Indian industry a unique opportunity to become a part of the world's largest fighter aircraft ecosystem.​


"We intend to create far more than an "assembly line" in India," he said.​


Lall claimed no other advanced fourth generation platform even comes close to matching the record of real-world combat experience and proven operational effectiveness.​


"The fighter being offered specifically to India is uniquely the best state-of-the-art fighter," he said adding that all three variants of the F-35 are single-engine aircraft.​


Many of the systems used on the India-specific platform are derived from key lessons learned and technologies from Lockheed Martin's F-22 and the F-35, the world's only operational fifth generation fighters, he said.​


Northrop Grumman's advanced APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar on the F-16 Block 70 provides F-16s with fifth generation fighter radar capabilities by leveraging hardware and software commonality with F-22 and F-35 AESA radars, he added.​


The APG-83 radar shares more than 95 per cent software commonality with the F-35 radar and more than 70 per cent hardware commonality.​


Lall said the F-16 provides the path to business relationships with Lockheed Martin, the only company in the world that has designed, developed and produced operational fifth generation fighter aircraft.​


Technology improvements will also continue to flow between the F-16, F-22 and F-35 for decades, at a fraction of the cost to F-16 operators, he said.​


The platform being offered provides unmatched opportunities for Indian companies of all sizes, including micro, small & medium enterprises (MSMEs) and suppliers throughout India, to establish new business relationships with Lockheed Martin and other industry leaders in the US and around the globe, Lall said giving an insight into the offer being made by his company.​


Asserting that approximately half of the Indian fighter supply chain will be common with the fifth generation F-22 and F-35, Lall said the aircraft brings the most modern avionics, a proven AESA radar, modernised cockpit, advanced weapons, longer range with conformal fuel tanks, auto ground collision avoidance capability, and an advanced engine with an extended service life.​


Even with the addition of targeting systems and two 2,000 pound (lb) class Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs), the aircraft has a mission radius exceeding 1,300 kms -- 30 per cent greater than that of its closest competitor, he said.​


"Many of the advances in systems on the aircraft India would get draw directly from key lessons learned from Lockheed Martin's work on the F-22 and the F-35," he said.​


"The AESA radar is the result of over two decades of investment, use and experience with AESA technology, and it's fully operational today," Lall said.​


Some people have got wrong impression that US is offering customised F35 or F35 to India that too build in India. It is far from the truth, even above article is nothing but a marketing gimmick, just because F35 & proposed F16 will have same AESA radar, its being sold to unaware public as 5gen stealth tech India be getting.

In true sense it is nothing but, a long standing flaw (which there are many) in acquiring F16 for India, namely - mid life cycle upgrades. US states it will support/operate F16 till year 2040. India say procure F16 & its manufacturing plant shift to India (more like assembly, components parts be still in USA & NATO counties) & start production in best case by 2020. Plane life cycle 50 years, that means India operate F16 atleast till 2070 (god help india, rather have more rafale or Gripen) then what happens to mid life cycle upgrades. Here Vivek Lall has cleverly tried to twist facts, that since F35 & F16 be having same AESA radar, hence mid life cycles upgrades wont be problem.

We all know there is more to Mid life cycle upgrade that just radar. Secondly, to keep F16 relevant for India Vs China post 2040, would be major re-work (F16 doesnt have modular design that other stuff can be easily incorporated). And anyone think lockheed martin for f16 upgrade, wont suck the blood out of Indian pockets to create a new block version exclusively for India post 2040 be dreaming, hell they dont come cheap to even there own country US, when it comes to on demand creating new product, so lets not hope exception for India.

LM fake & twisted Marketing strategy at its best again to fool India public & political class. :poop:
 
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Lockheed Martin. Isn't it the same company which sold F-35 design and blue print to China which helped them make J-31 inclusive of single glass bubble canopy?

The only thing which they didn't passed on was engine which is made by Pratt and Whitney. China modified the design to make it twin engined and used Russian klimov RD33 for testing.

What guarantee that this corrupt company for the sake of money won't part with secrets of Indian F-16s or f-35s?
 
Seems someone is planting Fake news to try and get india to buy F-16 in hope of getting F-35.
and we know who the modern pioneer of fake news is .....

Someone made a typo from the original India Express article and people got confused. The original article still had F-16 in it, not F-35.
 
Saab could cancel Gripen contract with Brazil over Boeing’s potential tie-up with Embrarer

Brazilian daily Folha says CEO of Saab, Hakan Buskhe, will tell Brazil’s Defense Minister Raul Jungmann on Jan. 25 that his company could cancel the contract to supply Gripen fighters if there is a tie-up between Boeing and Embraer.

39-8_SKA_031.jpg


The Swedish aerospace company is worried that its technological secrets will be at risk if such a move occurs as Embraer is participating in the development of the Gripen F.

Saab could cancel Gripen contract with Brazil over Boeing's potential tie-up with Embrarer
Negócio entre Boeing e Embraer pode afetar caça da FAB
 
Croatia, Israel Inch Closer to F-16 Deal

The Croatian military is on the verge of selecting Israel’s used F-16 jets to take the place of its dwindling supply of Soviet MiG-21s, just six of which are estimated to be operational. The fleet of 21 60-year-old MiG-21s is in dire need of replacement.
Croatia invited the US, Israel, South Korea, Sweden and Greece to participate in the competition to supply the next wave of fighter aircraft last July. Zagreb has eyed new or used F-16 Fighting Falcons from Israel, the US or Greece, South Korea's FA-50s and Saab's JAS-39 Gripens.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Croatian Prime Minister Andrej Plenkovic reached an agreement "to push forward" on the deal, signaling Netanyahu's F-16s may be close to winning the contract, the Jerusalem Post reported Friday.
"This development is another expression of the deep ties between the two countries," Netanyahu's office said in a statement. The deal could be worth up to $500 million, but its potential terms have not been finalized.
The Israeli Air Force retired its F-16A/B fleet in late 2016 but still flies heavily modified F-16C/D aircraft. It's not clear what composition of planes Netanyahu has offered to sell to Zagreb, but Croatian media reported that Sweden had sweetened its deal by offering to provide the more advanced F-16C/D jets.
Speaking with Stars and Stripes, a Croatian military analyst said no more than six of the MiG-21s are airworthy. "It was a great plane during Croatia's war of independence" from 1991 to 1995, but "it really can't hold its own against modern fighters or anti-aircraft defenses," analyst Denis Kuljist told the military news outlet January 18.
The MiG-21, NATO reporting name Fishbed, has been one of the most widely used fighter jets in military history and achieved the mark of being the most-produced supersonic aircraft in history.
 
India to again scout for global players for jets

New Delhi, February 21

Its fleet of fighter jets dwindling, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is set to float a fresh global tender inviting military aviation companies to make fighter jets in India.The move comes as the Air Force is now down to 31 squadrons against the need of 42, as mandated by the Cabinet Committee on Security. Each squadron has 16-18 planes. The request for information (RFI), the first step in the tendering process, is being finalised and will be sent out to global players, sources said

Companies that participated in the now scrapped Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) project will be invited. The MMRCA project for 126 jets did not fructify and the government, in April 2015, announced the move to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from French major Dassault.

The MoD and the IAF will keep its options open and not restrict itself to say a “single engine” fighter jet, sources have told The Tribune. The option will be to get a “fighter jet” and it will not specify the number of engines as that then restricts the options.

These will be under ‘make in India’ and to get global manufactures to have a production line in India, the project needs adequate numbers with possibility of future expansions. To speed up matters, the MoD will be looking at new additions made by global players since the MMRCA trials were carried out in 2011. The planes tested then were Lockheed Martin’s F-16IN, US Boeing’s F/A-18IN, Eurofighter Typhoon, French Dassault’s Rafale, Swedish Saab’s Gripen and Russian MiG-35.In past two years, the IAF and the MoD were in talks for a “single engine” fighter jet with two global manufactures. However, this has been superseded by the thought process to just focus on getting additional jets without getting into “single engine” or “twin engine” variants. The existing production of 123 Tejas fighter jets being made by public sector giant Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is just taking off and it will take more than a decade for the entire lot to be manufactured. The IAF has the mandate to have 272 Sukhoi 30 MKI in its fleet. The MiG 21s are on their last legs and have to be phased out.

@Nick @vstol Jockey @Aashish @randomradio
And the circus goes on :LOL:
 
Saab could cancel Gripen contract with Brazil over Boeing’s potential tie-up with Embrarer

Brazilian daily Folha says CEO of Saab, Hakan Buskhe, will tell Brazil’s Defense Minister Raul Jungmann on Jan. 25 that his company could cancel the contract to supply Gripen fighters if there is a tie-up between Boeing and Embraer.

39-8_SKA_031.jpg


The Swedish aerospace company is worried that its technological secrets will be at risk if such a move occurs as Embraer is participating in the development of the Gripen F.

Saab could cancel Gripen contract with Brazil over Boeing's potential tie-up with Embrarer
Negócio entre Boeing e Embraer pode afetar caça da FAB
Never !
What is so secret in the Gripen ?
engine is US. Radar is european. The frame is not so evolved. US has nothing to gain.
 
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This is likely that it jeopardizes Saab's cooperation with Boeing on the TX as Boeing will have access to all of SAAB's technology and will no longer need an agreement for TX.
 
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India’s Fighter Jet Procurement Saga Zooms Into Familiar Jumble

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...curement-saga-zooms-into-familiar-jumble.html

  1. How does India plan to choose its next fighter? Will this be a full-fledged tendered contest?
    [*]What bearing will this prospective new IAF contest have on the Indian Navy’s quest for 57 carrier fighters?
    [*]Will the new contest be guided by the same process principles of Make in India and Strategic Partnership (SP)?
    [*]Does the government plan to create a real time-frame for the process?
 
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