No torpedoes, no aip . Nothing much to rejoice personally speaking. And no further follow on orders too.
Sheer criminal waste of investments made in MDL.
Should instantly cancel P75I project. Order another 6 scorpene with Submarine launched SCALP , F21 torpedoes and AIP and with greater localisation.
Divert all remaining time , money and infra to accelerating the construction of SSNs.
Sheer criminal waste of investments made in MDL.
Should instantly cancel P75I project. Order another 6 scorpene with Submarine launched SCALP , F21 torpedoes and AIP and with greater localisation.
Divert all remaining time , money and infra to accelerating the construction of SSNs.
India’s 2nd Scorpene Class Submarine Khanderi Enters Service This Weekend
By Shiv Aroor Sep 26 2019, 4:33 pm
Named for the wide-snouted sawfish, the Indian Navy is all set to welcome its second Scorpene class submarine Khanderi into service this weekend. The induction, originally planned for March, was delayed by a few months as sea trials continued in the aftermath of India’s airstrikes in Pakistan’s Balakot. The new submarine joins the first of its class INS Kalvari in Mumbai and will be deployed on patrolling duties immediately in the Arabian Sea.
The construction of third Scorpene Karanj, started on January 31 2018, and the submarine is currently undergoing a sea trials, according to maker Mazagon Docks Ltd. The fourth Scorpene, Vela, was launched in May this year, and under preparation for sea trials. The final two, Vagir and Vagsheer are in various stages of outfitting.
Some images just in of the Khanderi ahead of her commissioning on September 28 in Mumbai:
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ine-khanderi-enters-service-this-weekend.html
By Shiv Aroor Sep 26 2019, 4:33 pm
Named for the wide-snouted sawfish, the Indian Navy is all set to welcome its second Scorpene class submarine Khanderi into service this weekend. The induction, originally planned for March, was delayed by a few months as sea trials continued in the aftermath of India’s airstrikes in Pakistan’s Balakot. The new submarine joins the first of its class INS Kalvari in Mumbai and will be deployed on patrolling duties immediately in the Arabian Sea.
The construction of third Scorpene Karanj, started on January 31 2018, and the submarine is currently undergoing a sea trials, according to maker Mazagon Docks Ltd. The fourth Scorpene, Vela, was launched in May this year, and under preparation for sea trials. The final two, Vagir and Vagsheer are in various stages of outfitting.
Some images just in of the Khanderi ahead of her commissioning on September 28 in Mumbai:
https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ine-khanderi-enters-service-this-weekend.html
Saurav Jha (@SJha1618) Tweeted:
Here's a photo of the soon to be commissioned Khanderi as it left MDL for its maiden sortie. Courtesy: @indiannavy Saurav Jha on Twitter ( )
Here's a photo of the soon to be commissioned Khanderi as it left MDL for its maiden sortie. Courtesy: @indiannavy Saurav Jha on Twitter ( )
https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/cont...-20120118[Newsletter_V2_Drupal]-20190927-[_2]
A NEW AIP from Naval Group
Naval Group's development of an Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) for submarines based on a new generation of fuel cells passed a crucial milestone this year. The ground system of the French industrialist, installed on his site of Indret, close to Nantes, indeed worked for 18 days in conditions representative of a real patrol. "It was a question of well checking the functioning of the system with a profile of operational use, as well as the autonomy in diving. For 18 days, the system, connected to batteries to be representative of actual use on a submarine, produced electricity from diesel fuel, operating at high pressure, which means that it does not There is no immersion limitation for its use, "says Anthony Covarrubias, former commander of one of Chile's Chilean Scorpene who now works at Naval Group's Marketing Department.
Transits, very slow speeds, accelerations, fast surface rises, stops of the AIP followed by restarting, management of a possible breakdown or damage ... As on a real submarine, the system was confronted with situations to validate its performance and reliability.
World premiere for reforming from diesel
With these successful tests, Naval Group achieves a remarkable technical challenge for this device producing hydrogen from diesel. "18 days of electricity production from diesel reforming, this is a world first, it went very well and can be reproduced without problem," says Marc Quémeneur, AIP product manager at Naval Group. The French manufacturer proposes this solution to increase the diving autonomy of conventional submarines and to avoid them to the maximum to return to the surface to recharge their batteries, during which time the building is vulnerable.
Called AIP FC-2G (Fuel Cell Second Generation - FC-2G), this system has required a decade of research. Technologically, it includes two main innovations. First, the hydrogen used for fuel cell operation is manufactured directly on board, via a chemical reforming process from diesel fuel used by diesel-generators. This process provides increased security by the absence of hydrogen storage on board. The exhaust fumes are discarded discreetly, since they dissolve instantly in the water. In parallel, Naval Group has designed a patented system to produce air by injecting nitrogen at the oxygen inlet of the cell, this oxygen being stored in cryogenic form in a tank. Synthetic air reacts with hydrogen in the fuel cell to produce electricity, which powers the submarine's batteries and the electric propulsion motor. The battery is confined in a closed and ventilated enclosure to control a possible leakage of hydrogen or oxygen.
Standalone operation or in tandem with batteries
Designed for a lifespan of 10,000 hours, the fuel cell has a capacity of 250 kW. It feeds the electrical plant when the submarine is in AIP mode, thus allowing the electric propulsion motor to run and provide the power consumption of the edge. The building can then evolve on this system alone at a speed of up to about 5 knots, knowing that to obtain a range of three weeks in diving, the use profile varies between 2 and 4 knots. To do this, the power required for the AIP FC-2G is between 130 and 180 kW. Beyond that, you have to tap into the batteries, the passage from one energy source to another being done without interruption. But one of the interests of Naval Group's AIP is also to be able to supplement the energy provided by the batteries. "In case of acceleration, there is no break and, if we want to go faster than the maximum allowed by the AIP, we pass on the batteries but we can also continue to operate the AIP, which then comes to relieve the batteries and to avoid as much to draw on their reserves. In this way, if the submarine needs to sail for a few hours at a high speed, the AIP serves as a way to extend a little or substantially the autonomy in immersion, "said Anthony Covarrubias.
Many advantages over other systems
Architecturally, the Naval Group AIP FC-2G is a considerable advantage over existing systems, where hydrogen is stored in external tanks, posing weight problems (130 to 160 tons of hydrides of which less 2% usable hydrogen) and refueling. Fuel cells currently in service use, in addition, pure oxygen, which generates a high wear, the filters and membranes to be replaced very regularly. More efficient according to Naval Group, the AIP FC-2G offers, according to its designers, a time of use between each major maintenance approximately five times higher than that of its foreign competitors. "Our system really fits into the operational scheme of a submarine. It requires only a short interruption of three weeks each year, the only equipment to be changed during this maintenance period being the catalysts. In the meantime, there is nothing to do! Says Marc Quémeneur.
Finally, the choice of hydrogen production from diesel fuel facilitates refueling and storage (single fuel on the submarine) while improving safety compared to systems using for example methanol, more flammable and introducing toxic products in case of leakage.
The device fully integrated in a standalone module
Like MESMA, the first AIP developed by the French group and which equips the Agosta 90B Pakistani, the entire system AIP FC-2G is grouped in a single module, autonomous from the rest of the submarine. The system is housed in a hull section about 8 meters long integrated into the boat from the beginning or added after recasting with a minimum of modifications to the existing. Adaptable to buildings with a diameter of at least 6 meters, such as Scorpene or the conventional propulsion version of the Barracuda, the AIP FC-2G was obviously designed not to impact the overall performance, starting with the capacity immersion and acoustic discretion.
The onshore system in service since 2011
The performances announced by Naval Group can therefore be guaranteed thanks to the tests carried out in recent years on a full-size AIP FC-2G system installed in Indret. After testing on a demonstrator dedicated to the production of hydrogen from 2003 to 2010, the full scale device 1 was built in 2010. It went into service the following year and now has more than 6000 hours of the equivalent of six years of use. It is therefore, according to Naval Group, a system now reliable and proven even before having embarked on a submarine. "6000 hours of operation and production of hydrogen is more than a cycle of operation between two periods of major maintenance," underline Marc Quémeneur and Damien Lelandais, system architect of the FC-2G program.
Ready to use with further prospects for improvement
The system is therefore "ready to be marketed" and already proposed by Naval Group to a number of navies. While waiting for first orders, the work will continue. "We will continue to test operational profiles and focus on system optimization, efficiency, maintenance and maintenance." For example, engineers will work on improving the efficiency of the system by reducing oxygen consumption, particularly through new technologies such as additive manufacturing. "We have great prospects for system evolutions and we see a real potential for increasing performance in power and autonomy that will allow to go on large submarines while remaining in very interesting volumes."
While the device is now coupled with traditional lead-acid batteries, Naval Group is also working on the integration of battery-powered submarines using lithium-ion technology, which will expand operational performance.
=> Just on time for P75I ....
A NEW AIP from Naval Group
Naval Group's development of an Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) for submarines based on a new generation of fuel cells passed a crucial milestone this year. The ground system of the French industrialist, installed on his site of Indret, close to Nantes, indeed worked for 18 days in conditions representative of a real patrol. "It was a question of well checking the functioning of the system with a profile of operational use, as well as the autonomy in diving. For 18 days, the system, connected to batteries to be representative of actual use on a submarine, produced electricity from diesel fuel, operating at high pressure, which means that it does not There is no immersion limitation for its use, "says Anthony Covarrubias, former commander of one of Chile's Chilean Scorpene who now works at Naval Group's Marketing Department.
Transits, very slow speeds, accelerations, fast surface rises, stops of the AIP followed by restarting, management of a possible breakdown or damage ... As on a real submarine, the system was confronted with situations to validate its performance and reliability.
World premiere for reforming from diesel
With these successful tests, Naval Group achieves a remarkable technical challenge for this device producing hydrogen from diesel. "18 days of electricity production from diesel reforming, this is a world first, it went very well and can be reproduced without problem," says Marc Quémeneur, AIP product manager at Naval Group. The French manufacturer proposes this solution to increase the diving autonomy of conventional submarines and to avoid them to the maximum to return to the surface to recharge their batteries, during which time the building is vulnerable.
Called AIP FC-2G (Fuel Cell Second Generation - FC-2G), this system has required a decade of research. Technologically, it includes two main innovations. First, the hydrogen used for fuel cell operation is manufactured directly on board, via a chemical reforming process from diesel fuel used by diesel-generators. This process provides increased security by the absence of hydrogen storage on board. The exhaust fumes are discarded discreetly, since they dissolve instantly in the water. In parallel, Naval Group has designed a patented system to produce air by injecting nitrogen at the oxygen inlet of the cell, this oxygen being stored in cryogenic form in a tank. Synthetic air reacts with hydrogen in the fuel cell to produce electricity, which powers the submarine's batteries and the electric propulsion motor. The battery is confined in a closed and ventilated enclosure to control a possible leakage of hydrogen or oxygen.
Standalone operation or in tandem with batteries
Designed for a lifespan of 10,000 hours, the fuel cell has a capacity of 250 kW. It feeds the electrical plant when the submarine is in AIP mode, thus allowing the electric propulsion motor to run and provide the power consumption of the edge. The building can then evolve on this system alone at a speed of up to about 5 knots, knowing that to obtain a range of three weeks in diving, the use profile varies between 2 and 4 knots. To do this, the power required for the AIP FC-2G is between 130 and 180 kW. Beyond that, you have to tap into the batteries, the passage from one energy source to another being done without interruption. But one of the interests of Naval Group's AIP is also to be able to supplement the energy provided by the batteries. "In case of acceleration, there is no break and, if we want to go faster than the maximum allowed by the AIP, we pass on the batteries but we can also continue to operate the AIP, which then comes to relieve the batteries and to avoid as much to draw on their reserves. In this way, if the submarine needs to sail for a few hours at a high speed, the AIP serves as a way to extend a little or substantially the autonomy in immersion, "said Anthony Covarrubias.
Many advantages over other systems
Architecturally, the Naval Group AIP FC-2G is a considerable advantage over existing systems, where hydrogen is stored in external tanks, posing weight problems (130 to 160 tons of hydrides of which less 2% usable hydrogen) and refueling. Fuel cells currently in service use, in addition, pure oxygen, which generates a high wear, the filters and membranes to be replaced very regularly. More efficient according to Naval Group, the AIP FC-2G offers, according to its designers, a time of use between each major maintenance approximately five times higher than that of its foreign competitors. "Our system really fits into the operational scheme of a submarine. It requires only a short interruption of three weeks each year, the only equipment to be changed during this maintenance period being the catalysts. In the meantime, there is nothing to do! Says Marc Quémeneur.
Finally, the choice of hydrogen production from diesel fuel facilitates refueling and storage (single fuel on the submarine) while improving safety compared to systems using for example methanol, more flammable and introducing toxic products in case of leakage.
The device fully integrated in a standalone module
Like MESMA, the first AIP developed by the French group and which equips the Agosta 90B Pakistani, the entire system AIP FC-2G is grouped in a single module, autonomous from the rest of the submarine. The system is housed in a hull section about 8 meters long integrated into the boat from the beginning or added after recasting with a minimum of modifications to the existing. Adaptable to buildings with a diameter of at least 6 meters, such as Scorpene or the conventional propulsion version of the Barracuda, the AIP FC-2G was obviously designed not to impact the overall performance, starting with the capacity immersion and acoustic discretion.
The onshore system in service since 2011
The performances announced by Naval Group can therefore be guaranteed thanks to the tests carried out in recent years on a full-size AIP FC-2G system installed in Indret. After testing on a demonstrator dedicated to the production of hydrogen from 2003 to 2010, the full scale device 1 was built in 2010. It went into service the following year and now has more than 6000 hours of the equivalent of six years of use. It is therefore, according to Naval Group, a system now reliable and proven even before having embarked on a submarine. "6000 hours of operation and production of hydrogen is more than a cycle of operation between two periods of major maintenance," underline Marc Quémeneur and Damien Lelandais, system architect of the FC-2G program.
Ready to use with further prospects for improvement
The system is therefore "ready to be marketed" and already proposed by Naval Group to a number of navies. While waiting for first orders, the work will continue. "We will continue to test operational profiles and focus on system optimization, efficiency, maintenance and maintenance." For example, engineers will work on improving the efficiency of the system by reducing oxygen consumption, particularly through new technologies such as additive manufacturing. "We have great prospects for system evolutions and we see a real potential for increasing performance in power and autonomy that will allow to go on large submarines while remaining in very interesting volumes."
While the device is now coupled with traditional lead-acid batteries, Naval Group is also working on the integration of battery-powered submarines using lithium-ion technology, which will expand operational performance.
=> Just on time for P75I ....
What the existing Scorpene is, though....is currently the best SSK platform in the region. Leaps and bounds ahead of the tech in Agosta-90B (barring the additional endurance granted by AIP), and with features like Flank array sonars, still holds the advantage against future PN acquisitions like the S-20/Type-039B as far as the platform is concerned.
It is let down heavily by the poor choices made by Indian MoD (in blacklisting the sole-source supplier of SUBTICS-compliant torpedoes at the time), and unless a repeat order for at least 3 more isn't placed (not to mention cancelling P-75I thereby preventing the possible headache of operating 2 different SSKs all over again), it will be let down even further.
The silver lining here though is that it appears the French side has agreed to integrate the locally developed MAREEM AIP into the Scorpene as and when IN deems it ready for MLU. And also to incorporate it from the start in any Scorpene or Scorpene-based design that we build going forward.
Ajai Shukla (@ajaishukla) Tweeted:
With India's second Scorpene submarine being delivered six years late, over-budget and with significant defects, the navy must get right Project 75-I (for building the next six subs). A brief look at how the vendors and submarines in the fray stack up. Late & over-budget, new submarine triggers Project 75-I stake rise ( )
With India's second Scorpene submarine being delivered six years late, over-budget and with significant defects, the navy must get right Project 75-I (for building the next six subs). A brief look at how the vendors and submarines in the fray stack up. Late & over-budget, new submarine triggers Project 75-I stake rise ( )
You'd have to check the embedded article.significant defects..... what are they ?
No detail.
35 defects.... I was one time in my life the ceo of a company that built houses and building. At the reception step, 35 defects for a building was so few ! near perfection, because there is always a door to repeint, or a glass to clean, or a leaky faucet to change.
A SSK is made of thousand hundreds components.... 35 defects is nothing. Specially if 29 need a special calm water that explain it was not possible to solve it during the late months.
And, between you and me, there are only two explanations :
- Or these 35 defects are minor and the IN was clever to accept the sub,
- Or the IN top brass are idiots and made a fault to accept the sub if defects are deep.
I hope for Indian Navy and I personaly think it's the first solution.
In the full article, it's not SIGNIFICANT defects, but shortcomings or defects.
So why not "very serious defects"?
P75I must be enhanced scorpene.Barracuda shortfin is too costly .We dont need more types and repeat current mess.Only reason i guess current order of 6 was not extended was data leak.
there will be only two types of conventional after a decade if barracuda also chosen. Scorpene class and barracuda, may i know what's wrong in it?
Barracuda is too costly and not optimized for shallow waters.
Enhanced scorpene is the choice for commonality and cost.
If we want brute ability choice is german type 216,its optimized for shallow waters,is the quietest and the best capability wise.But also costly and will require a new infra setup.