Trainer Aircraft of IAF - PC-7, HTT-40, HJT-36, BAE Hawk

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
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Mumbai
IAF needs the Trainer no frills version at a reasonable price. Hawk I not the solution they want, so no surprise that IAF hasn't shown any interest.
We've already 120+ Hawks in the IAF . In addition to it , I wonder , how many do the IAF need & Why ?
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,189
13,065
Mumbai
The Kiran's are going out. And without the replacement of Kiran's , Hawk and PC7 are pretty much covering up the shortfall as of now.

And we need to remember that we have 260 Flankers. Twin seaters. Meaning we need more pilots.
So what's the solution then if the IAF thinks the Hawk's are expensive ?
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore
So what's the solution then if the IAF thinks the Hawk's are expensive ?
Get HTT40 fast, because currently our Basic trainer fleet is at leas than 50% sanctioned strength. And get IJT to replace the Kiran MK2. That will take off any extra work load on the Hawk fleet. That would be manageable.

For longer run we can look into a modification of IJT only.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,189
13,065
Mumbai
Get HTT40 fast, because currently our Basic trainer fleet is at leas than 50% sanctioned strength. And get IJT to replace the Kiran MK2. That will take off any extra work load on the Hawk fleet. That would be manageable.

For longer run we can look into a modification of IJT only.
Neither are going to come soon. RFP for the HTT-40 was announced last year. No news about it since. HJT-36 will take 2-3 yrs to be completely certified.

We have 72 P-27 Pilatus's for Basic Training don't we ? Assuming availability of 50 at any given time , how Many freshman pilots does the IAF intake every year ?
 

vikata

Well-Known member
Jan 5, 2018
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delhi
Isn't using russian engine in IJT,htt40 will result in reliability issues in future .....we already have lost too many rookie pilot in these trainer aircraft ,I guess many were grounded .....it was one of the factor which tilted the procurement in favor of pilatus....all bribery issues aside ,it has performed well when it comes to safety...
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,796
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Bangalore
Neither are going to come soon. RFP for the HTT-40 was announced last year. No news about it since. HJT-36 will take 2-3 yrs to be completely certified.

We have 72 P-27 Pilatus's for Basic Training don't we ? Assuming availability of 50 at any given time , how Many freshman pilots does the IAF intake every year ?
We have approximately 3700 pilots against the requirements of approximately 4400. We loose approximately 80 to various reasons like quitting, retirement, injuries , etc. every year.

Due to current restrictions on the number of cadets who can be trained , we get approximately 100-110 cadets who can become a pilot.

That's a real grim situation.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,796
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Bangalore
Isn't using russian engine in IJT,htt40 will result in reliability issues in future .....we already have lost too many rookie pilot in these trainer aircraft ,I guess many were grounded .....it was one of the factor which tilted the procurement in favor of pilatus....all bribery issues aside ,it has performed well when it comes to safety...
Due to the scandal now maintenance and procurement of service support for the pc7 aircraft has become very dire.

HTT40 uses the Honeywell garett engines, similar to the ones used on Do228.
 
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Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
3,796
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Bangalore
Arm it with EOTS and reece pods and rocket launchers and give it to CRPF for ground support role.
Precision targetting for CAPFs, better to have drones. Longer endurance and cheaper to operate.
Plus I don't understand this, why does everyone wants to uparm every trainer ? They will become useless during any conflict.
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
2,490
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Republic of Wadiya
Precision targetting for CAPFs, better to have drones. Longer endurance and cheaper to operate.
Plus I don't understand this, why does everyone wants to uparm every trainer ? They will become useless during any conflict.
keeping a pilot in the loop in ground attack role has it's pros.
Also it will incease its expt potential
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,525
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India
The Kiran's are going out. And without the replacement of Kiran's , Hawk and PC7 are pretty much covering up the shortfall as of now.

And we need to remember that we have 260 Flankers. Twin seaters. Meaning we need more pilots.

The number of Hawks is fine. It can train all the pilots we need even with full 42 squadrons, never mind with the current strength. The follow-on orders planned were not meant for training.

But the need for basic trainers is critical. It's currently our weakest link and is much more serious than our squadron shortfall. We should have gotten the 38 PC-7s. The HTT-40 delays were inevitable. Now the plan is to lease PC-7s, if it can get through all the politics.

As for the loss of the Kiran, the IAF can make do with the HTT-40 in a few years for Stage II. The IAF has already transitioned to a two aircraft-three stage training regimen, which is practiced by most air forces. There's no guarantee the IAF will go for the IJT if the HTT-40 meets expectations for Stage II.

So it's the lack of basic trainers that's causing problems. Until that's fixed, we will have a constant 300-400 fighter pilots shortage.