Tejas Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions
- Thread starter Schwifty
- Start date
I don't know what you're complaining about with the Scorpene and, to be honest, I don't think we're being mistreated. After all, when the Spanish let us down in the middle of the programme, we replaced them at short notice and the ToT took place and you built 5 of the 6 Scorpenes and the Scorpene is a very good submarine on which you are going to integrate the DRDO AIP. What's more, you're ordering 3 more from us while the P-75I programme is at a standstill. As far as we're concerned, the situation isn't so bad; it's likely that when the 3 you're about to order are built, you'll order 3 more from us. After all, if your submarine strength is not negligible, it's thanks to the Scorpene, and if you want to go to the next level, you'll have to order SSN Barracuda, then you'll be able to counter the Chinese.
It's not financially feasible. LCA Mk2 is supposed to perform 80% of the Rafale's missions at a third of the cost and maintenance downtime. It's being designed for higher availability, faster turnaround time and scrambling rate, opposites of what ORCA and Rafale offers. It also has a faster development cycle.
ORCA will be as expensive as the Rafale to operate for a capability that's inferior to the Rafale and its development cycle will be slower than AMCA (F414). It also requires significant redesign in the nose, landing carriage, wings and fuselage, making the exercise pointless right from the get-go.
TEDBF is not a high speed or 9G fighter, and has lesser payload, all 'cause of folding wings. It will probably weigh 13-14T versus Rafale M's almost 11T, so it's a pretty big aircraft.
It looks like the Rafale, but it's a very different jet.
The LCA Mk2 and Rafale combination is perfect. ORCA will be inferior to this combination.
Correct.
I didn’t say they will benefit by delaying AMCA. Just that there is no incentive. Which you agreed.
Five years from now MK2 prototypes flying and Pakistan procuring J-35 or KAAN then everything goes on panic mode. No one will deny F35A could be the only solution. They cycle will continue.
ADA/DRDO overselling their capabilities and not delivering cannot go on for ever. They need restructuring for better accountability.
If u recall, Vstol jockey mentioned the CCC canard assembly in current Mk2 is not at its best placement.
If the mk2 induction delays are 10 + years from now. We might as well improvize the design..
That's why thought of additional SE Mk1C order then move onto ORCA.
There is. Post-AMCA fighter. A new sixth gen jet is under planning stages. It will be taken up after the AMCA team is freed up.
That's fine. KAAN is not gonna be better than the J-20, never mind any new J-XXs, and we are still going for LCA Mk2 based on that reality. LCA's gonna be paired up with stealth drones, this will allow the aircraft to fly over our own territory while they send the drones out into enemy territory for most missions, particularly CAS and Interdiction.
A combination of drones and active cancellation for DCA, CAS and Interdiction doesn't require overkill in capabilities.
Only the TE jets require overkill. So let's see if there's gonna be a sudden interest in stopgap measures (Su-57, NGAD, F-35A etc) over the next 5 years.
Even if it's not the most ideal CCC design, it will still be a significant upgrade over Mk1A. So we are talking about additional payload, range, sensors, 2-3 times the electrical power etc. So a more powerful radar, fully internal EW suite with MAWS and LWS, an extra hour of flying time, almost double the payload, 9G performance, supersonic at all altitudes, significantly easier maintenance etc. Mk2 will also come with a lot of next gen tech, which includes optionally manned capabilities, VR/AR cockpit, drones, networking etc, stuff that's not aimed towards Mk1A 'cause it's just an upgrade program under HAL.
Whats the point? Did AMCA help Mk2 ? No.(in ADA context)
Because there is a clear requirement for lower cost mid end fighter that is MK2.
And why do you think skipping helps AMCA? There is no real lack of resources.
It should be that is the point.Just because there is a need for a stealth aircraft doesn't mean it will be competently delivered on time.
The govt won't allow ADA to develop a post-AMCA fighter with AMCA still pending. ADA had to deal with the same issue with AMCA, before LCA Mk1's FOC was achieved. So the next fighter's gonna be taken up only after AMCA achieves FOC.
The idea behind this is, as per forces recommendation, if they are given a new project, they will move their best human resources to the next project while leaving the older project high and dry, exactly 'cause they are not financially dependent on the project.
You can quite literally imagine it yourself, scientists jumping up and down at the chance to join a new project even at the cost of the old. The top guys will jump ship taking away their best lieutenants.
It was the IN who identified this problem when their N-LCA received stepmotherly treatment. It took years to fix it, under a dedicated navy team. So, N-LCA, TEDBF and post-TEDBF, in parallel with LCA, AMCA and post-AMCA.
The sooner they get TEDBF and AMCA done, the sooner they get their next respective projects.
What are We
developing mK2 without mk1a, started work on AMCA without mk1a & mk2.
Started work on tedbf without mk1a, mk2amca.
And trying to sell orca with out mk1a, mk2,amca & tedbf.
LCA Mk1 was completed and paved the way for LCA Mk2 and AMCA.
N-LCA was completed and paved the way for TEDBF.
Mk1A is under HAL, it's not related to ADA. The same with SPORT. There's even a Tejas CATS MAX under HAL, which is the trainer model converted to Mk1A.
LM screws up Fifth Gen in 1990s and 2000s.So an aerospace giant like Lockheed Martin can screw up America's biggest fighter program but here we are bitchin, pissin and moaning about timelines of our future fighters(when we don't have a ready engine of our own), lmfao
Folks, people doubted Tejas and criticized it to no end, but now very soon we're going to have over 200 Tejas in MK1/A configuration. Single engine medium-light weight high end plane like Gripen-E is also required by us. So Tejas MK2 is coming by next decade, whether we like it or not.
Those who believed that we are going to have hordes of MK2 before 2030. Well...you were just being too naive.
HAL and ADA are screwing up Fourth gen fighters in 2000s, 2010s and 2020s.
One is like making a road while travelling other is simply falling again and again travelling a well travelled road.
I beg to differ. HAL has screwed up things even more royally. Something as simple as an intermediate trainer jet. A project that was started in 1997 and has to yet see mass production because they were not able to get the design working.
HAL HJT-36 Sitara - Wikipedia
How can a company which builds aircraft for living screw up subsonic jet?
Even if one accepts ADA etc, how come HAL is not able to manufacture Tejas at a fast enough rate? I mean US in 1980s was doing 200 fighters a year!
I doubt MK2 will fly in 5 year. 15 seems more likely. The engine trouble is not going to be over anytime soon.
For the LCA Mk2, it seems that the roll-out is scheduled for 2027 and the first flight for 2028. What's most astonishing to me is that they're announcing a 4-year delay on the roll-out just one month before the planned roll-out date. Normally, we've known for a long time that we wouldn't make the date, and this kind of behaviour deserves to be punished.
The problem is the way 5eyes are behaving. The delay in supplying F404 engines for LCa MK1A and other such issues have forced govt to have a rethink on using US tech in frontline weapons. GOI is waiting for finalisation of deal for new engine with Safran/RR and after that go ahead will be given for LCA MK2. Most likely it will be a JV with Safran. USA has once again shot itself in the foot.
Also the partner selected for JV for new engine will be required to get Kaveri engine going for LCA MK 1A. The present thrust levels of Kaveri are better than M88. with 48Kn thrust in Indian Standard Atmoshere, which is ISA+20*C. the real sea level thrust of Kaveri in International standard Atmoshere works out to be, (48/91)*100 = 52.7 KN as dry thrust and corresponding afterburner thrust with 60% enhancement will work out to be, (48/91)* 160= 84.4 KN. There is a thrust drop of 9% at ISA+20*C compared to ISA conditions. M88 is 50/75 at ISA temp. If we can reduce the weight by 100kgs from Kaveri which GTRE claims it can based on new techs they have developed, this engine with just 10% additional thrust will be in same category as M88-4 and will be better than 60/90 Kn thrust of M88-4 with similar weight of about a ton and a perfect replacement for F404 and F414.
Last edited:
Availability of engines and starting production of F414 in India. I doubt US will follow through its commitments. With reduced supply of engines and spares, development and certification of MK2 will get delayed again and again.
The problem with the Kaveri is that its afterburner doesn't work, and if we don't treat the problem seriously, its lifespan will be very short.
It does not have an afterburner as of now. But Kaveri being a very leaky engine, it should easily be able to get a thrust increase of nearly 65%. Plus it is a variable cycle engine with bypass ratio varying from 0.16 to 0.21.