Tejas Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions

Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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While comparing with Gripen E, where does our mk2 will stand? Will it be as good as Gripen E in terms of EW suite?
Inferior radar.
Inferior EW
Gripen E uses the amraam mk 2 doesn't
Gripen E also has better sensor fusion,datalink and other stuff.
Mk 2 has superior payload capacity though.
 
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randomradio

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All countries that need to field a large airforce are going to keep and expand their 4++ gen aircraft. Tejas MK2 does this for us. Our problem is that we are sorely missing stealth aircraft. Not sure what we are doing to mitigate that.

Rafale F4.2, F-35 Block 4, Su-57 Mk2.

Those are our only immediate options which can potentially begin fielding by 2030, along with IUSAV.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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All countries that need to field a large airforce are going to keep and expand their 4++ gen aircraft. Tejas MK2 does this for us. Our problem is that we are sorely missing stealth aircraft. Not sure what we are doing to mitigate that.

Rafale F4.2, F-35 Block 4, Su-57 Mk2

Those are our only immediate options which can potentially begin fielding by 2030, along with IUSAV.
 

Kalkioftoday

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Nov 3, 2021
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Inferior radar.
Inferior EW
Gripen E uses the amraam mk 2 doesn't
Gripen E also has better sensor fusion,datalink and other stuff.
Mk 2 has superior payload capacity though.
1. How do you know Uttam Mk2 is inferior to Saab's newer AESA radar? yes, this radar has GaN modules but it's Saab's very first airborne AESA. We are already using Vivaldi antennas for our newer jamming pods (ASPJ) and also making Vivaldi antennas of Rafale's RBE2 AESA through BEL. Won't be surprise if we see GaN based TSA antennas on Uttam mk2.
2. Regarding EW, well we'll use UWB antennas in Mk2's internal jamming pod, will use a digital RWR and IR based MAWS by BEL which is developed with the help of Elisra. Gripe E using Elisra's IR based PAWS 2 MAW. SIGINT, ELINT i have no idea
3. Nowhere in the world it is written that AMRAAM is the best BVR missile, AFAIK Mk2 will be integrated with Meteor and later SFDR.
4. Better sensor fusion, yes it's sensor fusion will be more advance than MK2 as it's a mature platform with internalized avionics from the very beginning and more than 20000+ flying hours.
5. Yes Mk2 will carry higher payload
Pic 1: 32 AAU for ASPJ probably
 

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Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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How do you know Uttam Mk2 is inferior to Saab's newer AESA radar? yes, this radar has GaN modules but it's Saab's very first airborne AESA. We are already using Vivaldi antennas for our newer jamming pods (ASPJ) and also making Vivaldi antennas of Rafale's RBE2 AESA through BEL. Won't be surprise if we see GaN based TSA antennas on Uttam mk2.
Simple answer I would say is to compare the capabilities of the saab erieye vs the drdo netra. They are similarly capable but the erieye can be used as a fire control radar and can direct the amraam's. Something similar was done by the Turks using their E7 awacs. We haven't integrated the astra like that and astra most likely has inferior seeker to the amraam for now. We can match them in hardware but don't know how good we are in the software integration department as compared to the Swedes.
Regarding EW, well we'll use UWB antennas in Mk2's internal jamming pod, will use a digital RWR and IR based MAWS by BEL which is developed with the help of Elisra. Gripe E using Elisra's IR based PAWS 2 MAW. SIGINT, ELINT i have no idea
We can only judge the mk2's ew capabilities once we see the mk 1a online. But for now gripen E is real and mk2 is paper aircraft.

Nowhere in the world it is written that AMRAAM is the best BVR missile, AFAIK Mk2 will be integrated with Meteor and later SFDR.
Amraam is the best bvr missile right now with standard propulsion tech. R-77 and pl-10 is inferior. And amraam 120d is on par with pl 15 even though pl 15 is a bigger missile. Astra is right now on par with r-77 the mk 2 will be on par with 120d and pl-15. But for now amraam remains the most widely used bvr missile and is pretty advanced compared to any of its competitors. Also The gripen E already uses the meteor so does gripen c if I'm not wrong. So no real advantage. Mk 2 would become unique if we develop a mica and r27 ea/em equivalent missiles for it.

Better sensor fusion, yes it's sensor fusion will be more advance than MK2 as it's a mature platform with internalized avionics from the very beginning and more than 20000+ flying hours.
Well swedes have one of the best datalinks too on the planet and their sensor fusion is so good that the gripen's have the capability to rapid fire amraam's. We dont have similar capability. Though we will get better.
 

Chain Smoker

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Simple answer I would say is to compare the capabilities of the saab erieye vs the drdo netra. They are similarly capable but the erieye can be used as a fire control radar and can direct the amraam's. Something similar was done by the Turks using their E7 awacs. We haven't integrated the astra like that and astra most likely has inferior seeker to the amraam for now. We can match them in hardware but don't know how good we are in the software integration department as compared to the Swedes.

We can only judge the mk2's ew capabilities once we see the mk 1a online. But for now gripen E is real and mk2 is paper aircraft.


Amraam is the best bvr missile right now with standard propulsion tech. R-77 and pl-10 is inferior. And amraam 120d is on par with pl 15 even though pl 15 is a bigger missile. Astra is right now on par with r-77 the mk 2 will be on par with 120d and pl-15. But for now amraam remains the most widely used bvr missile and is pretty advanced compared to any of its competitors. Also The gripen E already uses the meteor so does gripen c if I'm not wrong. So no real advantage. Mk 2 would become unique if we develop a mica and r27 ea/em equivalent missiles for it.


Well swedes have one of the best datalinks too on the planet and their sensor fusion is so good that the gripen's have the capability to rapid fire amraam's. We dont have similar capability. Though we will get better.
Dude erieye provides the coordinates to the Fighter aircraft working in Passive mode which then directs that to missile using data link.
 
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Kalkioftoday

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Simple answer I would say is to compare the capabilities of the saab erieye vs the drdo netra. They are similarly capable but the erieye can be used as a fire control radar and can direct the amraam's. Something similar was done by the Turks using their E7 awacs. We haven't integrated the astra like that and astra most likely has inferior seeker to the amraam for now. We can match them in hardware but don't know how good we are in the software integration department as compared to the Swedes
First of all no-one knows the real capability of Netra and Erieye other than their user and manufacturer. Second most of the AWACS uses 'S' band radar, 'X' band are always airborne fire control radar. Third you don't need special fire control AWACS to cue the air to air missile, for that you need two way datalink in the missile. Like AMRAAM, Astra too have a two way data link. Netra can easily cue Astra.
We can only judge the mk2's ew capabilities once we see the mk 1a online. But for now gripen E is real and mk2 is paper aircraft
No you cannot judge Mk2 from Mk1a as both are pretty different. Mk1a don't have MAWS and also it's using underslung Isreali EW pod whereas Mk2 will use indeginous internal EW pod and MAWS. MK2 isn't in paper anymore, it's construction has already begun.
Amraam is the best bvr missile right now with standard propulsion tech. R-77 and pl-10 is inferior. And amraam 120d is on par with pl 15 even though pl 15 is a bigger missile. Astra is right now on par with r-77 the mk 2 will be on par with 120d and pl-15. But for now amraam remains the most widely used bvr missile and is pretty advanced compared to any of its competitors. Also The gripen E already uses the meteor so does gripen c if I'm not wrong. So no real advantage. Mk 2 would become unique if we develop a mica and r27 ea/em equivalent missiles for it.
AMRAAM is not the best missile and in this age standard propulsion is not enough to always hit a manuverable target, for that meteor's throttleable ramjet is more than perfect. And we are very close to develop a Meteor equivalent of our own
Well swedes have one of the best datalinks too on the planet and their sensor fusion is so good that the gripen's have the capability to rapid fire amraam's. We
I don't know how advance Sweden's data links are but AFAIK they are using Rover data link from L3haris which is a american company. Rapid firing is no out of the world capability, many aircraft can easily do that. MK1a can also do that.
You have many misconceptions/no idea about many systems and also have inferiority complex.
 
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Lolwa

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First of all no-one knows the real capability of Netra and Erieye other than their user and manufacturer. Second most of the AWACS uses 'S' band radar, 'X' band are always airborne fire control radar. Third you don't need special fire control AWACS to cue the air to air missile, for that you need two way datalink in the missile. Like AMRAAM, Astra too have a two way data link. Netra can easily cue Astra.

No you cannot judge Mk2 from Mk1a as both are pretty different. Mk1a don't have MAWS and also it's using underslung Isreali EW pod whereas Mk2 will use indeginous internal EW pod and MAWS. MK2 isn't in paper anymore, it's construction has already begun.

AMRAAM is not the best missile and in this age standard propulsion is not enough to always hit a manuverable target, for that meteor's throttleable ramjet is more than perfect. And we are very close to develop a Meteor equivalent of our own

I don't know how advance Sweden's data links are but AFAIK they are using Rover data link from L3haris which is a american company. Rapid firing is no out of the world capability, many aircraft can easily do that. MK1a can also do that.
You have many misconceptions/no idea about many systems and also have inferiority complex.
Mk 2 is paper plane until 2024, and if rumours are true of IAF losing interest in it we might not even see a prototype
Amraam 120d is the best missile apart from meteor. Only the k-77m is superior and it's a paper missile. There's literally no discussion. Obviously we can integrate but we won't . And will suffer for such a capability until Astra mk 2 doesn't come online.
Mk 1a is also a paper plane.


>"You have many misconceptions/no idea about many systems and also have inferiority complex"
You are being kinda delusional to be honest, I have no inferiority complex it's better to have realistic ambitions than being jingoistic.

Facts remain
Mk2 and mk1a are paper Planes. A lot of concepts on mk1a will be applied on the mk2 with better hardware, so capabilities of mk1a will pretty much prove if the mk2 can surpass the gripen E in capability and ew or not.
Gripen E is mature and has superior capabilities for now on paper and you haven't given any counter apart from the claim of "we can do it because feelings".
Out of all missiles apart from meteor and k-77
Amraam d continues to be the best missile in the arms market.
 

Sathya

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Dec 2, 2017
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If we speak of a full squadron, then it could be as late as 2028 or 2029 anyway. 2026 will at best see the delivery of just 2 jets, and it could even get pushed to 2027, a delay is inevitable.

We won't finish mk1A production before 2027.
2022-23 will go to trainers.
23-24 onwards Mk1A @ 16 / year I think.
Even if we take least no. Of years - 4
2027-28 we may see 2 mk2 jets produced.
 

Raptor

Member
Nov 15, 2020
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We won't finish mk1A production before 2027.
2022-23 will go to trainers.
23-24 onwards Mk1A @ 16 / year I think.
Even if we take least no. Of years - 4
2027-28 we may see 2 mk2 jets produced.
Many people say 4 prototypes are pre production standards,you won't have issue there idk how true it is
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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We won't finish mk1A production before 2027.
2022-23 will go to trainers.
23-24 onwards Mk1A @ 16 / year I think.
Even if we take least no. Of years - 4
2027-28 we may see 2 mk2 jets produced.

I don't think the Mk1A is an issue. HAL in fact plans to expand to a 4th line to cater for exports. Mk2 should get a different line. With the end of the MKI production, HAL has a lot of excess capacity at Ozhar.
 
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randomradio

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Many people say 4 prototypes are pre production standards,you won't have issue there idk how true it is

Yeah, the 4 prototypes are practically pre-production types, which is why the first two jets are expected to begin production in the same year as the first flight. This should be followed by 8 more jets the next year, and the remaining jets in the third year.