T-90 Bhishma / T-72 Ajeya of Indian Army : News and Discussions

zapper

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Oct 10, 2019
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It's because of the terrain you use air cavalry to seize points of strategic importance before securing lines of communication to get your tanks across whatever roads does permit it's usage
These armored columns will end up using those narrow roads with all the vehicles clogged together...perfect targets for UCAVs based on how Bayraktars decimated several Russian vehicles.

Not to mention, it'll be easy for PA to use ATGMs by concealing themselves in the thick forests
 
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zapper

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The general public doesn't has one. It's Okay losing hundreds in a bombing or a Terrorist act, but if a SF mission is carried out, and say 5 men were lost, the Prime Minister will be forced to resign.

We don't have a stomach for it yet.

We only need free electricity.
SF missions shouldn't be made public in the first place...be it an internal or external op and irrespective of the result. If IA or MoD wants to announce an SF casualty, they should project as a regular army personnel like how PA conceals all SSG casualties and projects some of em as infantrymen

Regarding Ruso-Ukr conflict, Russia used maybe 10% of their military with most of them being older weapons platforms. They didn't even brief their troops as to what their op was and were misguided as being sent in to "protect Russians". As for the concept of IA moving into PoK, consolidating the strategic gains and land grab is more valuable and is worth paying the price with our losses since we would only want a specific region and not the whole of pak
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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These armored columns will end up using those narrow roads with all the vehicles clogged together...perfect targets for UCAVs based on how Bayraktars decimated several Russian vehicles.

Not to mention, it'll be easy for PA to use ATGMs by concealing themselves in the thick forests
Frankly , I raised other concerns on this issue with Hellfire who refused to indulge me beyond a point due to the sensitivity of the issue at hand .

My concerns were more related to the winning the peace apart from winning the war given the proliferation of arms there , a hostile populace & other such factors.

Suffice to say I wasn't too convinced of the T/L given . Moreover those conversations were more than 3 yrs old when the full impact of Drone warfare wasn't upon us .

However I don't foresee those to be major issues not that they aren't a worry. My issues remain with winning the peace .
 

zapper

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In any case, even if we can't do it today, the army will modernise over the next 10 years. So there's that. As long as we give it time, the holes will only get smaller.
China will ensure they supply enough and potent equipment to pak armed forces to atleast defend against an Indian attack
All that the Pakistanis will do is go back a few km and start Artillery shelling and wipe out our troops
Range of MRLS (Pinaka) is longer than pak artillery...unless PA acquires PLAGF's long range artillery systems, we can use drones, fighter jets and MRLS to flatten PA's artillery command structures
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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These armored columns will end up using those narrow roads with all the vehicles clogged together...perfect targets for UCAVs based on how Bayraktars decimated several Russian vehicles.

Not to mention, it'll be easy for PA to use ATGMs by concealing themselves in the thick forests

Armour won't be used in the mountains. Only wheeled vehicles, LMVs, trucks, pack animals and the good old reliable tree trunks. Air operations will be very important if we take the mountain route. If we use the plains, then the armour can cut Pak off from PoK.

We use armour along some parts of the Chinese border because it's a mix of hills and plateaus.
 
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randomradio

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China will ensure they supply enough and potent equipment to pak armed forces to atleast defend against an Indian attack

Yes, but only up to a certain point. It depends on how much we are willing to spend.

If we end up modernising to the same extent the Chinese have done, then Pak doesn't stand a chance no matter how much China helps them out.
 

KUNAL BISWAS

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What Seems To Be Modified T90 Bhishma Turret On T72M1 Combat Improved Ajaya Hull Which Is Covered By ERA MK1, The Modification Can Be For Various Reasons But Most Probable One Can Be The Upgrade Of T-72M1, Since T90 Turret Makes The Best Upgrade Of Existing T-72M1 Tanks.

T90 and T72 share different upgrades and use different components for their respective upgrades, but in this case both turret and hull are required modification to work together, which is not required to test new sub systems but a completely different exploration.
 

randomradio

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What Seems To Be Modified T90 Bhishma Turret On T72M1 Combat Improved Ajaya Hull Which Is Covered By ERA MK1, The Modification Can Be For Various Reasons But Most Probable One Can Be The Upgrade Of T-72M1, Since T90 Turret Makes The Best Upgrade Of Existing T-72M1 Tanks.

T90 and T72 share different upgrades and use different components for their respective upgrades, but in this case both turret and hull are required modification to work together, which is not required to test new sub systems but a completely different exploration.

It's just an experimental tank of no relevance. T-72 upgrades are pretty much over. It's just a way to pull more money out of the IA using something useless. Someone thought sticking an Arjun turret on a T-72 hull was a smart idea too. The IA is making more prudent upgrades instead.


DRDO is unfortunately not making breakthrough tank designs, just rehashing the old. I don't have much confidence in DRDO for the FRCV program, the private sector will beat them.
 
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Hydra

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It's just an experimental tank of no relevance. T-72 upgrades are pretty much over. It's just a way to pull more money out of the IA using something useless. Someone thought sticking an Arjun turret on a T-72 hull was a smart idea too. The IA is making more prudent upgrades instead.


DRDO is unfortunately not making breakthrough tank designs, just rehashing the old. I don't have much confidence in DRDO for the FRCV program, the private sector will beat them.
There is no point in inducting Tanks until some break through from heaven happens, which give unprecedented break through in crew protection from ATGMs & Attack copters at ridiculously cheap price.

If IA is not understanding this, let them waste money on which is good atleast, If French had offered the Lecrec Tanks, just grab it and finish ot of the procurement drama, instead of designing something which gonna blow up in battlefield. Lecrec is atleast better than what the Russian stuffs we are using now & still with in the IA's weight category.

@Picdelamirand-oil can you tell the advantages of french lecrec over other western mbts.
 

Lolwa

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We are using monkey models t-72 M1's. Fortunately the Pakistanis don't have 3rd gen atgm's. They have kornet which will easily pen our t-72's. The upgrade ones t-72 CIA are at t-90s levels in terms of tech.
But for China they have hj-10 and hj-12 which are basically javelins but with a warhead similar to the kornet i e; 1400 mm rha penetration.
 

Lolwa

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There is no point in inducting Tanks until some break through from heaven happens, which give unprecedented break through in crew protection from ATGMs & Attack copters at ridiculously cheap price.

If IA is not understanding this, let them waste money on which is good atleast, If French had offered the Lecrec Tanks, just grab it and finish ot of the procurement drama, instead of designing something which gonna blow up in battlefield. Lecrec is atleast better than what the Russian stuffs we are using now & still with in the IA's weight category.

@Picdelamirand-oil can you tell the advantages of french lecrec over other western mbts.
Leclerc has autoloader and modular armour packages. So the armour can be increased. The leopards don't have that amap isn't exactly modular like the leclercs armour modules which are brick like and can be changed after mission.
Now the Leclerc is the only western tank with an autoloader but it's has the slowest autoloader (faster than t-90's autoloader). The french gun cn 120 mm is smaller at 52 compared to l/55 which is the most powerful gun.
The k2 basically is that. A tank with modular armour faster autoloader and bigger gun.
Keep in mind k2 has has access to German as well as American apfsds. The Turkish Altay is basically a k-2 with armour package. Personally FRCV should go to k-2 because the basics of the tank are extremely strong. And k-2 is especially designed for mountain warfare in Korea. Getting k/2 will result in upgunning the arjun to l/55. The Leclerc will give us modular armour tech. Both are good tanks but k-2 has the faster autoloader.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Nov 30, 2017
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There is no point in inducting Tanks until some break through from heaven happens, which give unprecedented break through in crew protection from ATGMs & Attack copters at ridiculously cheap price.

If IA is not understanding this, let them waste money on which is good atleast, If French had offered the Lecrec Tanks, just grab it and finish ot of the procurement drama, instead of designing something which gonna blow up in battlefield. Lecrec is atleast better than what the Russian stuffs we are using now & still with in the IA's weight category.

@Picdelamirand-oil can you tell the advantages of french lecrec over other western mbts.
I'm not very good at talking about tanks but I think its originality when it came out was that it used active rather than passive protection, in order to limit the final mass of the vehicle and that the tank is able to shoot at a target while driving. I don't know if this has become widespread since then or not.
 

_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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I'm not very good at talking about tanks but I think its originality when it came out was that it used active rather than passive protection, in order to limit the final mass of the vehicle and that the tank is able to shoot at a target while driving. I don't know if this has become widespread since then or not.
Individual mobility systems would largely render Tanks & heptrs autonomous vehicles & of limited usage for offensive purposes .
 

Hydra

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May 19, 2020
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Leopard 2s had similar fate in Northern Syria.

The only thing which matters is that the enemy should lose more.
It says we need modern anti tank missiles in large numbers, the Milan, Konkurs, Gustav we operate cannot inflict much damage on modern armours.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India

Leo 2A4
main-qimg-7b6aac786cf0dfc25f66e710859856f8-lq.jpg


Abrams
c67yxonsdz081.png


Merkava
0j3qjqsl67v71.jpg


Killed by old gen weapons.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
4,208
4,023
Bangalore
It says we need modern anti tank missiles in large numbers, the Milan, Konkurs, Gustav we operate cannot inflict much damage on modern armours.
Milan, Konkurs and CGs have their own importance and are good. Ofcourse we need heavier NAG launchers and new generation MPATGM too.


Pakistan has two formations which actually hold Al Khalid Tanks and M113 formations now. These two apart from the 2 strike corps.

And all these are closer to the border than we are.

Large numbers of Milan and Konkurs will take out hundreds of m113 , type 59 and type 85 tanks of their independent units of they try to counter.

Al Khalid and VT4 will have better frontal armor so mp atgm with top attack will be better.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
4,208
4,023
Bangalore
Leo 2A4
View attachment 23249

Abrams
View attachment 23250

Merkava
0j3qjqsl67v71.jpg


Killed by old gen weapons.
Side profile of every modern tank is easy. And in every non conventional conflict tanks will go down.

But when we talk about India Pak conventional war, I think that T90 has good enough frontal armour to stop the 1st hit. That is important. To survive the first hit.

And apart from their strike corps they don't really have very good tanks.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,955
India
Milan, Konkurs and CGs have their own importance and are good. Ofcourse we need heavier NAG launchers and new generation MPATGM too.


Pakistan has two formations which actually hold Al Khalid Tanks and M113 formations now. These two apart from the 2 strike corps.

And all these are closer to the border than we are.

Large numbers of Milan and Konkurs will take out hundreds of m113 , type 59 and type 85 tanks of their independent units of they try to counter.

Al Khalid and VT4 will have better frontal armor so mp atgm with top attack will be better.

Given enough time, most of our ATGMs will be Nag or MPATGM Mk2.

Yeah, PA has two mechanised divisions, 1 with AK and the other with VT-4. The armoured divisions have T-80 and Al-Zarrar. Their proximity to the border is irrelevant now. With the raising of new RAPIDs and the ability of II Corps to enter Pak within 24 hours, a lot of their advantages have been neutralised.